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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1161 - 2012-11-18 06:33:16 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Oh earlier that newb WHer was mouthing off about how WHers could come in and just bust Nullsecers up. That was quite the laugh I'll tell ya. Frankly I'm not uncomfortable saying that almost any WH group would be curb stomped by any Null alliance, even CVA. This isn't to say that you cats suck or nothing, just that **** is different out here.

They can't be prepared for our slowcats, because you know, wormholes don't let you hotdrop 200 slowcats on someone.

(Obviously CFC doesn't call them that, but you did say cats...)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1162 - 2012-11-18 06:35:21 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Oh earlier that newb WHer was mouthing off about how WHers could come in and just bust Nullsecers up. That was quite the laugh I'll tell ya. Frankly I'm not uncomfortable saying that almost any WH group would be curb stomped by any Null alliance, even CVA. This isn't to say that you cats suck or nothing, just that **** is different out here.

They can't be prepared for our slowcats, because you know, wormholes don't let you hotdrop 200 slowcats on someone.

(Obviously CFC doesn't call them that, but you did say cats...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuDtACzKGRs

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1163 - 2012-11-18 06:50:13 UTC
It's like some people aren't just bad at EVE, but they're even worse at Forums.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1164 - 2012-11-18 06:54:59 UTC
The op is illiterate I think

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1165 - 2012-11-18 08:27:49 UTC
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1166 - 2012-11-18 08:30:18 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.

Your rhetoric is amusing, but the evidence is still not on your side.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1167 - 2012-11-18 08:30:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.





The name of the expansion that brings it back will probably be called "It Turns out WH People Aren't as Good as They Thought so Now We Seriously Have Nothing but Empty Space and It's This or FTP."

Or something like that.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#1168 - 2012-11-18 08:42:49 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.





Yes. Wormholers sure have proven adept at finding PvP except they really aren't and on average they fight considerably less than we do.

ho ho ho.
Frying Doom
#1169 - 2012-11-18 08:51:41 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.





Yes. Wormholers sure have proven adept at finding PvP except they really aren't and on average they fight considerably less than we do.

ho ho ho.

Well maybe if they gave Worm Holers tech moons as well, then they could afford ship replacement programs

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1170 - 2012-11-18 08:55:44 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.





Yes. Wormholers sure have proven adept at finding PvP except they really aren't and on average they fight considerably less than we do.

ho ho ho.

Well maybe if they gave Worm Holers tech moons as well, then they could afford ship replacement programs

You're assuming wormholers have problems affording things.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#1171 - 2012-11-18 09:05:02 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The name of the expansion that removes local from null will be called "Learn how to hunt your prey you lazy stupid nullbears - your mommy local is not here to protect you"


or something like that.





Yes. Wormholers sure have proven adept at finding PvP except they really aren't and on average they fight considerably less than we do.

ho ho ho.

Well maybe if they gave Worm Holers tech moons as well, then they could afford ship replacement programs

You're assuming wormholers have problems affording things.

No I am saying that they probably would not care less about the isk if all they had to do was stuff up a few towers and watch the isk roll in.

But we know this will never happen, CCP only givens handouts like that to Null secers

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1172 - 2012-11-18 10:13:04 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
No I am saying that they probably would not care less about the isk if all they had to do was stuff up a few towers and watch the isk roll in.

But we know this will never happen, CCP only givens handouts like that to Null secers

Huh. When did you figure out what WHers did, or what they had to endure?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#1173 - 2012-11-18 10:32:09 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No I am saying that they probably would not care less about the isk if all they had to do was stuff up a few towers and watch the isk roll in.

But we know this will never happen, CCP only givens handouts like that to Null secers

Huh. When did you figure out what WHers did, or what they had to endure?

So Worm holers can set some thing up with minimal upkeep and gain billions in passive income for their corps?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1174 - 2012-11-18 10:41:23 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No I am saying that they probably would not care less about the isk if all they had to do was stuff up a few towers and watch the isk roll in.

But we know this will never happen, CCP only givens handouts like that to Null secers

Huh. When did you figure out what WHers did, or what they had to endure?

So Worm holers can set some thing up with minimal upkeep and gain billions in passive income for their corps?

Are you talking about the tech moons which we've spent hundreds of billions of isk to take/defend, or the SOV which runs into hundreds of billions of isk every month?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#1175 - 2012-11-18 10:54:47 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
No I am saying that they probably would not care less about the isk if all they had to do was stuff up a few towers and watch the isk roll in.

But we know this will never happen, CCP only givens handouts like that to Null secers

Huh. When did you figure out what WHers did, or what they had to endure?

So Worm holers can set some thing up with minimal upkeep and gain billions in passive income for their corps?

Are you talking about the tech moons which we've spent hundreds of billions of isk to take/defend, or the SOV which runs into hundreds of billions of isk every month?

Yes and Worm hole corps never have there Pos's attacked and are forced to defend.

If a Worm hole corp tried to hold as many systems as you do yes it would cost them hundreds of billions as well but they would not have the bonuses for sovereignty.

As to the size of the bill well you are the ones paying for so many systems no one said you had too.

So no just because you have fought to defend something that is game breaking does not justify its existence. As you stated in one of you discussions a few months ago about the removal of local, your members expect to get paid. That whole model is just plain wrong, a corp and alliance should exist because of the players not existing because of its assets and ability to pay.

So back to the original point, if you gave other sectors moons fully of indispensable goo, available no where else (except by overpriced alchemy) I am sure they would be happy to pvp more with there passive income, paid for ships.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1176 - 2012-11-18 11:22:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes and Worm hole corps never have there Pos's attacked and are forced to defend.

Wait, wormhole guys have upwards of 1000v1000 fights?

Oh wait, no, wormhole guys who are attacking other wormhole guys usually either have to spend weeks or even months getting ships into the wormholes for ONE attempt at winning the fight so they can dominate the wormhole for however long it takes to clear it out of other POSes, whereas the wormhole guys who are defending have the benefits of having as many caps etc in the wormhole as they see fit.

Poor, poor them.

(I'm sure they're not whining, because they're making more than enough isk as it is)

Frying Doom wrote:
If a Worm hole corp tried to hold as many systems as you do yes it would cost them hundreds of billions as well but they would not have the bonuses for sovereignty.

Good thing they're not trying to hold as many systems, then.

Frying Doom wrote:
As to the size of the bill well you are the ones paying for so many systems no one said you had too.

No, but we do it anyways to do our part in keeping the monetary inflation down.

Frying Doom wrote:
So no just because you have fought to defend something that is game breaking does not justify its existence.

Game-breaking? How so?

I mean, you have noticed that CCP have already nerfed them pretty hard once already, right?

Frying Doom wrote:
So back to the original point, if you gave other sectors moons fully of indispensable goo, available no where else (except by overpriced alchemy) I am sure they would be happy to pvp more with there passive income, paid for ships.

Here's an idea: ***** at CCP for first of all ******* up by moving the moongoo bottleneck from 2 r64s to 1 r32, and then ***** at CCP for not making alliance income dependent on player activity.

Incidentally, we've been quite vocal about tech being nerfed (it has been heavily nerfed), and now we're quite vocal about alliance income being too top-down instead of being bottom-up. You're a bit behind on this one.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Raptors Mole
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1177 - 2012-11-18 11:40:46 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:

"LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:

Pro Delayed Local Camp
- Makes things a tad more interesting and risky
- Use teamwork to replace it

Con Delayed Local Camp
- Can't solo bear - quite so safely
- Can't be bothered to use probes and Dscan
- Can't be bothered to work as a team because some aspects are not "fun"
- If you don't agree, you have never lived in null
- If you don't have the right corp tag, you never have lived in null
- If you don't agree you are stupid
- If you don't agree you are not reading correctly"

/Agree

Null is not WH space.


From my perspective

I think no/delayed/Cloakies not showing up in local would make life harder for the null sec alliances, but more interesting for others. I am pretty sure they would adapt though.

It would be easier to kill Bots for a start and I am in favour of that.
It would mean placing scouts on, in and out gates/bottlenecks.
It would mean perhaps being less able to hold territory so well, you would actually need players in held systems.


But the crux of this argument back and forth is.

I am in favor of removing local from null as I think it would add more to my game.

or

I am not in favor of removing local from null as it would detract from my game.

But - what would make the game better for the majority?
Frying Doom
#1178 - 2012-11-18 11:41:45 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:


Incidentally, we've been quite vocal about tech being nerfed (it has been heavily nerfed), and now we're quite vocal about alliance income being too top-down instead of being bottom-up. You're a bit behind on this one.

No just stating the obvious on my part I suppose.

Frankly they should have made it an npc item if they could not change it over to moon mining straight away.

I suppose we all wait for the time when they listen to the players going 'Dont do it'

I would say they have but the whole UI thing sort of stuffed that one up.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1179 - 2012-11-18 11:50:01 UTC
Raptors Mole wrote:
I think no/delayed/Cloakies not showing up in local would make life harder for the null sec alliances, but more interesting for others. I am pretty sure they would adapt though.

Yep, they would, by moving the last few isk-making alts from nullsec to hisec, lowsec or WHs instead.

Raptors Mole wrote:
It would be easier to kill Bots for a start and I am in favour of that.

Given that you're in favor of killing bots, then you should be against things like crimewatch 2.0 and maybe even the mining barge changes (honestly it's hard to tell these days, since people don't have to spend much energy to mine with the mack)

Raptors Mole wrote:
It would mean perhaps being less able to hold territory so well, you would actually need players in held systems.

The sov system isn't determined by player activity in a system in any way, shape or form.

Well, apart from up to 1000v1000 fleets butting heads, but in this case local plays absolutely no part.

Raptors Mole wrote:
But the crux of this argument back and forth is.

I am in favor of removing local from null as I think it would add more to my game.

or

I am not in favor of removing local from null as it would detract from my game.

But - what would make the game better for the majority?

What would make the game better for the majority would be what would draw more people out into nullsec. Removing local would benefit one group of players and one group only: gankers who are terrible at this game. They'd just switch into cloaked ships and gank a few ships until people wisened up and moved their isk-making alts to hisec, lowsec or wormholes, at which point we'd be in a worse position than we are in now.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1180 - 2012-11-18 11:55:03 UTC
Raptors Mole wrote:

But - what would make the game better for the majority?





Actually, it's only a vocal minority of people with any kind of problem with the game in the first place - the majority are out playing it. The majority of people also have no problem with the majority of the upcoming expansion. Therefore, nothing needs to be done to make it better for the majority.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104