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CCP Eterne Deals Blow to New Order Resistance

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Cristobol Setterstrom
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-11-17 20:23:46 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
@Galaxy Pig/James 315
are you bumping and possibly ganking non-afk miners (the potential is still there) and charging them for permits they don't need ? You know, the ones that are playing properly. Sorry, your website is not very clear on this part of the subject. If the answer is no, how do you determine that they are afk? Because they don't respond to private chats or talk in local? What if they just want to ignore you or not to be bothered with your silly game? I know when I first started playing, I didn't afk mine but I didn't talk to a soul either. Now when I mine, I still don't talk to a soul in game because I use this handy 3rd party program called teamspeak. Much faster communication than typing everything out. And I don't have to respond to annoying in game spammers or con artist that try and send a private chat.

If they don't pay they have no guarantee their mining lasers will be in range of any targets. It doesn't matter if they're playing the "ignore game."

If they can't mine like they're trying to, that's kind of hard to ignore.

True enough, but what if the miner responds with a "please stop" or "**** off" while being bumped, will they still have to pay for a permit even though they are not botting and not AFK?

They responded, that's evidence they can receive the demand for 10M isk for a 365 day mining permit.

So it's not a problem.


It dosn't matter if they respond because they just get a threat via mail telling to pay the 10 mill. They're going to tell you one way or the other..
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#82 - 2012-11-17 20:25:35 UTC
Cristobol Setterstrom wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
@Galaxy Pig/James 315
are you bumping and possibly ganking non-afk miners (the potential is still there) and charging them for permits they don't need ? You know, the ones that are playing properly. Sorry, your website is not very clear on this part of the subject. If the answer is no, how do you determine that they are afk? Because they don't respond to private chats or talk in local? What if they just want to ignore you or not to be bothered with your silly game? I know when I first started playing, I didn't afk mine but I didn't talk to a soul either. Now when I mine, I still don't talk to a soul in game because I use this handy 3rd party program called teamspeak. Much faster communication than typing everything out. And I don't have to respond to annoying in game spammers or con artist that try and send a private chat.

If they don't pay they have no guarantee their mining lasers will be in range of any targets. It doesn't matter if they're playing the "ignore game."

If they can't mine like they're trying to, that's kind of hard to ignore.

True enough, but what if the miner responds with a "please stop" or "**** off" while being bumped, will they still have to pay for a permit even though they are not botting and not AFK?

They responded, that's evidence they can receive the demand for 10M isk for a 365 day mining permit.

So it's not a problem.


It dosn't matter if they respond because they just get a threat via mail telling to pay the 10 mill. They're going to tell you one way or the other..

That's also totally true. None of it matters actually because the CCP quote didn't even mention, "for profit" if we're being honest.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#83 - 2012-11-17 23:50:40 UTC
What he's saying is that EVE is a harsh dystopia that has lost many players over the years because they couldn't hang. Some of us consider this a good thing.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2012-11-17 23:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Melvin Coulter
its my personal view that everything adds to EvE, even ideas like the "New Order". That ore that was mined was turned into minerals, that was sold, used to build something, then blown up.

That is the way I see it.

Even the AFK miners add something. Even if it is only a little ore.

Also thank you for acknowledging #1 Hat off to you sir!

Move along!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#85 - 2012-11-18 00:01:01 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
its my personal view that everything adds to EvE, even ideas like the "New Order". That ore that was mined was turned into minerals, that was sold, used to build something, then blown up.

That is the way I see it.

Even the AFK miners add something. Even if it is only a little ore.

They take more than they add.

See also: The value of the ice mining profession.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2012-11-18 00:03:55 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
[]
They take more than they add.

See also: The value of the ice mining profession.

If it is a page you're referencing
links are nice...
vary vary nice.

if not
I is lost

Move along!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#87 - 2012-11-18 00:04:19 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Melvin Coulter wrote:
its my personal view that everything adds to EvE, even ideas like the "New Order". That ore that was mined was turned into minerals, that was sold, used to build something, then blown up.

That is the way I see it.

Even the AFK miners add something. Even if it is only a little ore.

They take more than they add.

See also: The value of the ice mining profession.

It has val---

Ooooh, I see. We're fuelling all these structures (fun to shoot, right?) as part of player driven content, off the backs of the afk ice miners in Tolle and whereever, right?

If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have massive structure shooting ops and the like !


Wait..

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#88 - 2012-11-18 00:28:04 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
[]
They take more than they add.

See also: The value of the ice mining profession.

If it is a page you're referencing
links are nice...
vary vary nice.

if not
I is lost

It's common-sense supply and demand. I like to express it like this:

Value = Demand / Supply.

As supply goes up, value decreases unless demand goes up considerably.

Do you suspect the demand for ice products has tripled since the barge buffs?

How about what's happened to all the ice prices?

The formula works and AFK mining is driving down the value of mining as a profession.

Simple, common-sense supply-and-demand economics.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2012-11-18 00:39:55 UTC
ah ok.

The supply and demand stand point.
But i like cheep pos fuel!
I need a drink. Going off a bit how has this not yet been locked?

Move along!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#90 - 2012-11-18 00:55:24 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
ah ok.

The supply and demand stand point.
But i like cheep pos fuel!
I need a drink. Going off a bit how has this not yet been locked?

No it's not. Bumping has an impact on supply and demand.

Especially where it's most prominently impacted: The Bot and The AFK.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Commander Spurty
#91 - 2012-11-18 02:06:18 UTC
Posting in a thread where people who imagine they are flying spaceships are told to use their imagination to deal with other people that imagine they are in spaceships too, collide!

The circle is complete!

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#92 - 2012-11-18 04:05:52 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:

Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.

However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:

  • Bumping is not considered harassment.
  • Bumping is not considered griefing.
  • Bumping is not against the rules.


It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.

Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.

There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination. Smile


So you say bumping is a form of aggression and has been used as a combat move in the past.

Great, I don't afk mine but when I do mine there is always some idiot that tries bumping me that I have to avoid. Please do me the favor of flagging the aggressor and let me take care of things through the leet PvP this game is supposed to offer. Thank you.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2012-11-18 04:38:40 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:

So you say bumping is a form of aggression and has been used as a combat move in the past.

Great, I don't afk mine but when I do mine there is always some idiot that tries bumping me that I have to avoid. Please do me the favor of flagging the aggressor and let me take care of things through the leet PvP this game is supposed to offer. Thank you.



It's a little weird, that bumping in hisec can affect someone in a hostile fashion but doesn't cause any aggression.

But what you're asking for is ill-defined. You don't specifically define what the game code will use to determine which one is the aggressor. However it does define it, will be exploited to give slower industrial ships aggression, by putting fast ships in front of them and stopping them there. If this were an easily solved problem, CCP would have already fixed it.
Zak Fey
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-11-18 05:22:19 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:

So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:

Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.

However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:

  • Bumping is not considered harassment.
  • Bumping is not considered griefing.
  • Bumping is not against the rules.


It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.

Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.

There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination. Smile


So you say bumping is a form of aggression and has been used as a combat move in the past.

Great, I don't afk mine but when I do mine there is always some idiot that tries bumping me that I have to avoid. Please do me the favor of flagging the aggressor and let me take care of things through the leet PvP this game is supposed to offer. Thank you.

Instead of breaking Jita 4-4 you could pay 10 million to the agent closest to you.
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#95 - 2012-11-18 06:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Hey I have an idea. How about all the miners form a coalition and don't sell any ore whatsoever. Just stock pile it. Watch the market prices skyrocket and then his supply of ships run out or his isk.

Or better yet, how about the bumpers go to nullsec.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#96 - 2012-11-18 06:51:31 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
So you say bumping is a form of aggression and has been used as a combat move in the past.

Great, I don't afk mine but when I do mine there is always some idiot that tries bumping me that I have to avoid. Please do me the favor of flagging the aggressor and let me take care of things through the leet PvP this game is supposed to offer. Thank you.

It's a little weird, that bumping in hisec can affect someone in a hostile fashion but doesn't cause any aggression.

But what you're asking for is ill-defined. You don't specifically define what the game code will use to determine which one is the aggressor. However it does define it, will be exploited to give slower industrial ships aggression, by putting fast ships in front of them and stopping them there. If this were an easily solved problem, CCP would have already fixed it.

Heh heh heh....

That's a great idea. Oh no, your freighter is going to hit that poor rifter.


CONCORD, lock and load, that evil freighter just harmed the newbie's rifter.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-11-18 08:08:15 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Hey I have an idea. How about all the miners form a coalition and don't sell any ore whatsoever. Just stock pile it. Watch the market prices skyrocket and then his supply of ships run out or his isk.

Or better yet, how about the bumpers go to nullsec.



The miner's cannot stop mining. They need the income to pay for the 5 odd + accounts they have on average >.>... If someone has the spare time to bump a miner then they can do it if they want to waste time, it is their choice. The miner's can choose to pay if they want to give in or they can choose to be a target of the bumping, that is their choice.

Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#98 - 2012-11-18 08:11:00 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Hey I have an idea. How about all the miners form a coalition and don't sell any ore whatsoever. Just stock pile it. Watch the market prices skyrocket and then his supply of ships run out or his isk.

Or better yet, how about the bumpers go to nullsec.

The AFK and the bots have already weighed in with what they're willing to settle for.

Turns out it's peanuts.

So ATK coalitions of miners not selling gives them a tremendous opportunity.

The best solution is to destroy them.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tendra Rockbuster
Agentes in rebus
#99 - 2012-11-18 08:20:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tendra Rockbuster
I don't get it....some misanthrope shows up in my belt while I am shooting at rocks. i probably don't notice him at first because I have an overview full of 20-50KM of rocks, and would probably initially assume he is another miner until he collides with me. At this point, I would probably go back into range of my rock, and if he did it again, I'd ask him to stop. If I got the whole New Order drivel, I'd probably Roll and probably spend some time to dodge the guy.

I most certainly wouldn't pay someone else for a privilege I already have. Now, this may be more simple because I am already sitting there at my keyboard, but what doesn't make sense to me is if I were afk, I wouldn't be there to have a demand of isk placed on me, I'd be afk. bump me all you want if I'm afk...I don't care, I'm not there trying to do anything. It would take me a few seconds to figure out where I am when I got back, and then I'd find the nearest rock and slowboat to it or boomerang to it. Not much of a hassle, imo.

(note, I don't mine ice, so that may have something to do with it)
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#100 - 2012-11-18 08:23:46 UTC
Tendra Rockbuster wrote:
I don't get it....some misanthrope shows up in my belt while I am shooting at rocks. i probably don't notice him at first because I have an overview full of 20-50KM of rocks, and would probably initially assume he is another miner until he collides with me. At this point, I would probably go bak into range of my rock, and if he did it again, I'd ask him to stop. If I got the whole New Order drivel, I'd probably Roll and probably spend some time to dodge the guy.

I most certainly wouldn't pay someone else for a privilege I already have. Now, this may be more simple because I am already sitting there at my keyboard, but what doesn't make sense to me is if I were afk, I wouldn't be there to have a demand of isk placed on me, I'd be afk. bump me all you want if I'm afk...I don't care, I'm not there trying to do anything. It would take me a few seconds to figure out where I am when I got back, and then I'd find the nearest rock and slowboat to it or boomerang to it. Not much of a hassle, imo.

(note, I don't mine ice, so that may have something to do with it)

You can sort your overview by type.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom