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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#961 - 2012-11-17 03:52:12 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.



You should plot bookmarks in-line along your asteroid belts at a warpable range. That allows you to mine aligned.

This means you don't have to do anything until a neutral or hostile lands on-grid with you, because it'll still be a few seconds before their warp cancels.

You get to mine safely, even without a tank.

Clever bookmarks and targeting mean you never miss a cycle, except for when you have to boogie.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#962 - 2012-11-17 03:54:00 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.

Basically, if you see a bunch of CFCs/HBCs spamming things like .. image macros, jokes about undocking, hints about hotdropping bitches etc, you might want to :frogout:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#963 - 2012-11-17 03:54:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Darth Gustav wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.



You should plot bookmarks in-line along your asteroid belts at a warpable range. That allows you to mine aligned.

This means you don't have to do anything until a neutral or hostile lands on-grid with you, because it'll still be a few seconds before their warp cancels.

You get to mine safely, even without a tank.

Clever bookmarks and targeting mean you never miss a cycle, except for when you have to boogie.


I've been thinking about setting some up, but lately I've been in and out of low without a problem. I've gotta got out there in a shuttle, as well as Groothese and Elarel, and plot some bookmarks though.

Darth Gustav wrote:
This means you don't have to do anything until a neutral or hostile lands on-grid with you, because it'll still be a few seconds before their warp cancels.


Unless they're sitting in the belt cloaked and wait for you to get comfortable P

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#964 - 2012-11-17 03:54:55 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Clever bookmarks and targeting mean you never miss a cycle, except for when you have to boogie.

People are interfering with my ~playstyle~ (which does not include exploding).

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#965 - 2012-11-17 03:56:36 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I've been thinking about setting some up, but lately I've been in and out of low without a problem. I've gotta got out there in a shuttle, as well as Groothese and Elarel, and plot some bookmarks though.

Use a rifter or equivalent.

Preferably something fast (MWD > AB) to cover the distances quickly.

No point in limiting yourself to shuttle velocity.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#966 - 2012-11-17 03:57:13 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
except for when you have to boogie.

People are interfering with my ~playstyle~ (which does not include exploding).


Like it's 1999 Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Ra'Shyne Viper
Native Freshfood
#967 - 2012-11-17 03:58:29 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

NPC alts crying for changes in null from high-sec or WH don't forget things.

They never knew them. Otherwise they'd have the credibility to post on mains.


I'm in catch/curse/delve region frequently, this is my main. just because you carry alliance/corp tags doesn't make your credibility any different from mine on game mechanics

DUST 514 player

Ingame name: Vin Vicious
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#968 - 2012-11-17 03:58:34 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I've been thinking about setting some up, but lately I've been in and out of low without a problem. I've gotta got out there in a shuttle, as well as Groothese and Elarel, and plot some bookmarks though.

Use a rifter or equivalent.

Preferably something fast (MWD > AB) to cover the distances quickly.

No point in limiting yourself to shuttle velocity.


I also have to consider what I'm prepared to lose doing the job, hence why I do low and nul bookmarking in shuttles

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#969 - 2012-11-17 04:01:54 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Unless they're sitting in the belt cloaked and wait for you to get comfortable P

In the belt. Just waiting for a good time to tackle you... in the belt.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#970 - 2012-11-17 04:02:49 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.

@Darth
http://theelitist.net/nullsec-guide-nullsec-newbs
is one, yeah I know its bad in hindsight.

Ok after hearing your explaination of how local is used, wouldn't it more challenging to do this without local. I've done it in W-space minus the cyno jumps.

@Remiel
So kinda like lowsec...

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#971 - 2012-11-17 04:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.

@Darth
http://theelitist.net/nullsec-guide-nullsec-newbs
is one, yeah I know its bad in hindsight.

Ok after hearing your explaination of how local is used, wouldn't it more challenging to do this without local. I've done it in W-space minus the cyno jumps.

@Remiel
So kinda like lowsec...

Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

In short, you couldn't do it.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#972 - 2012-11-17 04:12:13 UTC
BAWRARWROROWAEROROR
If I insult enough people and pound my fists I haz smart.

I thought I worked with some idiots and @ssholes, good to have perspective.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#973 - 2012-11-17 04:13:29 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

In short, you couldn't do it.

Exactly. Enemies shouldn't be forced to jump into your blob, you dirty blobber.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#974 - 2012-11-17 04:14:35 UTC
A little off-topic here, but my thread inviting everyone to Halle got locked this morning, and this will just be brief...

I posted there about I guy I watched afk mining in a Talos in Halle get ganked by a guy in a Thrasher - I had front row seats to it and got some decent screenshots of it. When the Thrasher attacked, the Talos just kept orbiting the roid with its lasers going, completely oblivious to what was happening.

Well, the KM just went up on BC as wellLol

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#975 - 2012-11-17 04:14:54 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

In short, you couldn't do it.

Exactly. Enemies shouldn't be forced to jump into your blob, you dirty blobber.

I can't maintain my reputation as the Great Antagonists' mouthy pet without a little dirty blobbing now and then, can I?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#976 - 2012-11-17 04:21:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.

@Darth
http://theelitist.net/nullsec-guide-nullsec-newbs
is one, yeah I know its bad in hindsight.

Ok after hearing your explaination of how local is used, wouldn't it more challenging to do this without local. I've done it in W-space minus the cyno jumps.

@Remiel
So kinda like lowsec...

Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

in short, you couldn't do it.

Actually, yes you can. It's called covert ops scan frigs. Do it all the time with WHs. Despite the fact that they have timers for how long they stay up they still work sorta like gates. The only thing difference is there is a 5 minute timer before you can jump back through the same side you came from. Like lets say ur chasing a guy and he jumps through a Wh, now he is either running for 1 of 2 reasons.
A) he's out gunned
B) he has a fleet on the other side.
Now if you decide to take that risk, cloak immediately on the other side when you get a chance or warp away. If he was running away he will think "oh ****, he followed me and jump back through the WH he just came out of...(maybe he didn't have an exit plan or he hadn't scanned down another WH to get out yet, whatever) If he jumps back through again and your follow him, he has a 5 min timer before he could jump again. Scram and pew pew.
If he has a fleet, jump back, warp to a far off site. Get a corp fleet going and then swarm hole. They isn't any instant warping a way in a WH unless you have everything pre-bookmarked.

EDIT: Ok you said jump gate. Is that a regular gate or a cyno?

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#977 - 2012-11-17 04:22:04 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

In short, you couldn't do it.

Exactly. Enemies shouldn't be forced to jump into your blob, you dirty blobber.

I can't maintain my reputation as the Great Antagonists' mouthy pet without a little dirty blobbing now and then, can I?

Some of us like ... filthy behavior ^___^

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#978 - 2012-11-17 04:23:51 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

How does it drive conflict? Wouldn't it be best to use a separate channel for intel? Sorry, if I'm still hung up on this. I'm not getting the idea of spreading intel in local... unless it's bad intel. Like disinformation for the enemy. That would make sense to me.


Scroll back up the page to this post. Read the article I linked there for you - if you read it, it will answer these questions.

Local doesn't provide intel via its chat function, it provides intel via the fact that it shows you who is in chat, and therefore who is in system. If I'm mining Jaspet solo in the Seyllin system, for example, and I see someone appear in local, I'll check their sec status and leave if it's below 1, but if it's above I'll align to the nearest gate just in case.

@Darth
http://theelitist.net/nullsec-guide-nullsec-newbs
is one, yeah I know its bad in hindsight.

Ok after hearing your explaination of how local is used, wouldn't it more challenging to do this without local. I've done it in W-space minus the cyno jumps.

@Remiel
So kinda like lowsec...

Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

in short, you couldn't do it.

Actually, yes you can. It's called covert ops scan frigs. Do it all the time with WHs. Despite the fact that they have timers for how long they stay up they still work sorta like gates. The only thing difference is there is a 5 minute timer before you can jump back through the same side you came from. Like lets say ur chasing a guy and he jumps through a Wh, now he is either running for 1 of 2 reasons.
A) he's out gunned
B) he has a fleet on the other side.
Now if you decide to take that risk, cloak immediately on the other side when you get a chance or warp away. If he was running away he will think "oh ****, he followed me and jump back through the WH he just came out of...(maybe he didn't have an exit plan or he hadn't scanned down another WH to get out yet, whatever) If he jumps back through again and your follow him, he has a 5 min timer before he could jump again. Scram and pew pew.
If he has a fleet, jump back, warp to a far off site. Get a corp fleet going and then swarm hole. They isn't any instant warping a way in a WH unless you have everything pre-bookmarked.

Not sure you follow again.

You can't scan somebody in a different system. Only local gives fast enough intel to keep a fleet abreast of another moving fleet with nothing but static stargates and a static route to traverse.

Nothing else is fast enough. Especially not blindly expanding scan frigs radiating out randomly to outgoing systems.

It just isn't practical. It certainly would not drive conflict.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#979 - 2012-11-17 04:24:17 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Ok there are literally dozens of systems in each region.

Let's say we scan down a gang and they jump through a jump gate into a system with no local.

How will we ever find them?

It'd be like a blind man with a needle trying to pop balloons dropping from random positions in a 60 square meter room.

In short, you couldn't do it.

Exactly. Enemies shouldn't be forced to jump into your blob, you dirty blobber.

So you couldn't have players in every system running D-scans in covert op frigs?

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#980 - 2012-11-17 04:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Darth Gustav wrote:

Not sure you follow again.

You can't scan somebody in a different system. Only local gives fast enough intel to keep a fleet abreast of another moving fleet with nothing but static stargates and a static route to traverse.

Nothing else is fast enough. Especially not blindly expanding scan frigs radiating out randomly to outgoing systems.

It just isn't practical. It certainly would not drive conflict.

There isn't scans used in my scenario. it's knowing your enemy and how he/she is going to react to a situation/

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _