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Buckingham - HUD Changes

First post
Author
Rammix
TheMurk
#41 - 2012-11-13 11:15:34 UTC
Seismic Stan wrote:
I'm loving the look of the improved target tracking camera. How feasible would it be to expand on it to keep multiple targets in view simultaneously?

For example, having options to keep on screen all targeted ships, and/or squad/wing/fleet members? It would be a great function to automatically optimise viewing the relevant elements of the engagement, allowing the pilot to concentrate on actually doing the flying rather than camera spinning.

You mean automatic zoom-out? I'd prefer ability to create simple zooming profiles and switch between them with hotkeys.

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DJ P0N-3
Table Flippendeavors
#42 - 2012-11-13 13:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ P0N-3
Blue Harrier wrote:
How strange how different people like one type of damage reporting and others another. Myself with my colour defective vision found the 3 segment circular display confusing and at times almost invisible against the background.


I'm with you on this one. I went from "ughhh I can't see things" to "OMG I CAN SEE AND IT'S ALL GROUPED TOGETHER AS A VISUALLY DISTINCT BLOCK" when I saw the new layering. I don't have to look around the icons any more. I can look above the icons as one unit, and I can line up my targets and compare health status across them at a glance without looking at the icons (which was the best thing about the old rectangular display and it's back). This is best and I am very appoint. It may be working well for me because I've trained myself to gauge health based on negative space and counting lines.

I may be expressing myself badly due to lack of caffeine and excitement, but tl;dr I actually like this more than what we have on TQ right now. I know, I was shocked too.
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#43 - 2012-11-13 13:39:14 UTC
New targeting icons are excellent. Stacked health-bars that follow the same basic logic as the central HUD makes perfect sense and is easy to read at a glance, in some ways moreso than what we have on TQ now.

Did not get the chance to see how it looked with Sleepers (who have no shield) but do make sure someone in QA takes a glance at that.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#44 - 2012-11-13 17:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
jonnykefka wrote:
New targeting icons are excellent. Stacked health-bars that follow the same basic logic as the central HUD makes perfect sense and is easy to read at a glance.


Not true. As stated before, the central HUD is not made to be copied that small, and the new health in layers has a very unreadable health since it is not 180°. Health in circle had 4 clear distinction every 25% of each layer, which was much better for a quick glance.

I also agree with the fact that duplicating an old HUD is definitely not a step forward, nor it is according to the new interface's overall style.

About sleepers, as a WH player I was curious and checked out myself. This is exactly the same thing without shield layer, so basically the missing circle leaves a bit of empty room. Simple and clear.

So, the two key problems with the targeting interface are, imo :
1- The odd 270° covered by the layers, making very hard to tell were are each quarter. It is aggravated by the fact that there is four lines, one for each cardinal point of the circle, around it. Creating some "false" indications about were are 25 and 75%.

I took an example to illustrate. Look at this screenshot "quickly" like you would do in a quick glance. http://bit.ly/TB5Qn8





If I were asking you if the armor is at more or less than 40%, what would you answer on your first impression ? (Note : For some reason I found it even more confusing when the small picture is moved to a corner of the screen.)

2- I honestly don't get the point with the "insertion" of this feature among the new others that we've seen recently. Take a look at module tooltips for example, they are quite dark and "clear", taking enough room so that all the informations are spaced enough to leave a comfortable feeling when you look at them. Now we have a flashy white bar were each layer takes, what.. 3 pixels of thickness ? Seriously ?

I do love to see CCP offering improvements to their game, to us :) But this second "proposition" of health display looks more like a workaround for me.

Edit : Answer : armor is at 37%

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Super Stallion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-11-13 18:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Stallion
I would agree with you... if i could think of a single time it was important to know the exact percentage of enemy HP.

A rough approximation is more than what is needed for every situation that I can think of... outside of one. Knowing when youve broken through passive shield regen. And even then, with the current settup on tranquility, you wont know for certain until your past a guestimation area. I see no differance, and think you are just being picky.
Solaris Ecladia
Comms Black
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2012-11-13 18:08:23 UTC
CCP please please listen to your players on these circular health bars. They are terrible. When people tell you "its hard to see, we dont like it, the old way was better, etc". For Christs sake listen this time before screaming ahead with a change.

Yea OK, you want to give it a change, make it look cooler. Great. Do That. But please listen this time. Isnt that why we have these forums anyways?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#47 - 2012-11-13 18:33:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Super Stallion wrote:
I would agree with you... if i could think of a single time it was important to know the exact percentage of enemy HP.



Answer : I use it each time I want to know when to overload in 1V1 against a passive drake.

Answer 2: When I want to tank bait my teammate by voluntarily maintaining him low shield with my basilisk without taking the risk to see a piercing. Because we don't have tactical shield at 5.

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Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-11-13 18:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
I wouldn't be terribly worried about whether the HP bars are automagically intuitive. A new player will quickly figure out which bar represents the shields, and which the armor.

That said, maybe the following would be both readable and intuitive, and might even save space:

Split the target HP into three separate bars, arranged in a semicircle rather than a full circle around the target. Shield HP will be the right-most on the semi-circle, centered at the three o'clock position. Armor HP will be in the middle, centered at the twelve o'clock position. Hull HP will be the left-most, centered at the nine o'clock position. That will make the centers of the HP arcs align with the crosshairs, so that they are not merely ornamental but also are a reference point. I would make small indents at 25% and 75% levels for each HP arc as well.

Something like this: http://i.imgur.com/qOFb3.png

Apologies for the awful drawing, but best I can do using MSPaint. I don't know whether segmenting the HP bar itself will be desirable.

The damage will go from right to left, just like on the current HUD, and the whole thing will also flow from right to left. For additional clarity, maybe add 'SH,' 'AR,' and 'ST' above each bar or something, but I don't think it's really necessary.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#49 - 2012-11-13 19:40:34 UTC
My poor screenshot what have you done ! :D


That's an interesting idea, and it would obviously be better than the current proposition.

Even if I don't understand why devs absolutely wants to keep 90° to display... an icon.

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Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#50 - 2012-11-13 20:59:17 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:

Target Tracking Camera
- set from selected items window menu.
- camera will track your currently selected item - keeps it on screen
- can set keyboard shortcut to toggle this
- you can set where you want the target to be tracked. (move the focal point around)


It's cool. The motion is a little too fast though. A couple of misclicks and I almost get seasick.

If you select something close to what you're already looking at the camera does a little jump that would probably benefit from being a little slower and smoother. Say if the new target is within a certain angle form the previous one make the transition at a third of the usual speed or something.

(Crossposted this because I have no idea which thread you want feedback in, sorry. Maybe the other camera thread should be merged with this.)
Circumstantial Evidence
#51 - 2012-11-13 21:43:49 UTC
Copying from previous thread, to make a +1 vote for return of my own ship's bracket when I press Alt.
Drup Yog wrote:
CCP Fear wrote:
The problem is that is shouldn't be the same bracket as used on other ships, as it can lead to confusion, especially amongst our newer players. Thus it would be better to handle it in a different way, introducing a new bracket for your ship for example.

we can take a look at it, but it won't happen until after Retribution.
Then it will be a good idea to get the "alt" feature back. On TQ, when you press alt, you get a bracket on your ship. This was far enough to see exactly where your ship is. A single circle like the one you got when you click on your ship would be perfect.
I depended on a "ghost bracket" that I could summon to find my ship on screen when running around cloaked, or zoomed out, or in those ANNOYINGly bright clouds in some missions and exploration sites. This is one of the features that gets little fanfare, but you know it when its gone.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#52 - 2012-11-13 21:58:22 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Copying from previous thread, to make a +1 vote for return of my own ship's bracket when I press Alt.
Drup Yog wrote:
CCP Fear wrote:
The problem is that is shouldn't be the same bracket as used on other ships, as it can lead to confusion, especially amongst our newer players. Thus it would be better to handle it in a different way, introducing a new bracket for your ship for example.

we can take a look at it, but it won't happen until after Retribution.
Then it will be a good idea to get the "alt" feature back. On TQ, when you press alt, you get a bracket on your ship. This was far enough to see exactly where your ship is. A single circle like the one you got when you click on your ship would be perfect.
I depended on a "ghost bracket" that I could summon to find my ship on screen when running around cloaked, or zoomed out, or in those ANNOYINGly bright clouds in some missions and exploration sites. This is one of the features that gets little fanfare, but you know it when its gone.

I've been wishing for that bracket to be toggle-able since I started playing. Press ALT once to turn it on, press ALT again to turn it off.
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-11-13 22:35:50 UTC
Wow do I ever not like the round things

Its soooo much harder to see and figure out how far into shields/armor you are

I can at a glance see where I am at on TQ right now, and it is MUCH preferable to the round circley things.

Also the damage pop up thing, first thing i did was turn it off, having it take up the entire center of the screen scrolling and telling me about near hits/misses .... holy smokes that was not good. I like to know if I am damaging something and usually i go to the log, what i discovered was that if i turn off the on screen stuff the log is empty. At least on TQ right now i have one orange little line in the middle of the screen.

The round things on the targets, well those are alright as well....not that i care who is damaging me since ratting it does not really matter much, and in fleet you shoot who FC tells you to.

Well i really hate to be negative, but these round circley things showing damage and stuff - not good...

sorry CCP

~R~
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-11-14 01:33:05 UTC
Altrue wrote:
My poor screenshot what have you done ! :D


That's an interesting idea, and it would obviously be better than the current proposition.

Even if I don't understand why devs absolutely wants to keep 90° to display... an icon.


I died a little inside while drawing it. Cry
nikon56
UnSkilleD Inc.
#55 - 2012-11-14 09:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: nikon56
since those HUD updates are now on bunckingham test server, i would have to report one bug here (i cannot on test server because passwords is not recognized when submitting a bug)

the target list doesn't stack correctly when arranged vertically, the space between 2 target sem random, and sometime lead in one overlapping another making one of them almost impossible to select.

to reproduce, prety easy:
arrange terget verticaly
go in space with 3-5 budys, lock a first one, activate several modules on him, lock the others, switch modules between target

-> list is all broken, you can't see 50% of the information, you can't select 50% of the target due to overlaping

also i run dual screen, and notification were not offseted while they would have been, checked the settings, everythink ok, but still, the notification are not in the place they shall be (ship is well offsetted tho)
CCP Fear
C C P
C C P Alliance
#56 - 2012-11-14 13:42:20 UTC
nikon56 wrote:
since those HUD updates are now on bunckingham test server, i would have to report one bug here (i cannot on test server because passwords is not recognized when submitting a bug)

the target list doesn't stack correctly when arranged vertically, the space between 2 target sem random, and sometime lead in one overlapping another making one of them almost impossible to select.

to reproduce, prety easy:
arrange terget verticaly
go in space with 3-5 budys, lock a first one, activate several modules on him, lock the others, switch modules between target

-> list is all broken, you can't see 50% of the information, you can't select 50% of the target due to overlaping

also i run dual screen, and notification were not offseted while they would have been, checked the settings, everythink ok, but still, the notification are not in the place they shall be (ship is well offsetted tho)


We are aware of this and looking into a fix right now.
Terh Rumnatarn
Epidemic Inc.
#57 - 2012-11-14 14:22:56 UTC
Altrue wrote:


I took an example to illustrate. Look at this screenshot "quickly" like you would do in a quick glance. http://bit.ly/TB5Qn8



Please CCP, not like this.

I do realize that you want to improve the UI, and you want it to make it more stylish and rounder. I am all for this change. Even if there is negative response to the initial shield/armor/hull that you presented, it was rather ok, and easy to predict and learn. (some players are real morons that only want to express smth even if they don`t know what and why. And that whole right to left, left to right debate was below 80 IQ)

But this last improvement, please no. It looks far from stylish and very, very hard to read (that white/red health bar is awful, cheesy [don`t have the proper word] - more transparency fits eve better, see the initial target design). Ask the art designers for smth slick and very easy to read. I agree even with the initial change, much, much more than with this.

Everything else, really good improvements. Thumbs up. You guys are great at enriching this game, both with graphics and accessibility.

Thank you for your hard work. Looking forward for these on Tranq, hope not the new white/red marble circle.
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2012-11-14 15:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
I have no idea what's going on but I got on Buckingham and tried to shoot some stuff (an asteroid, a station) with my dramiel...

When I went to lock a target, the target icon popped up in the top right corner of my screen (ALL the way in the corner, and underneath my selected items window). When I tried to activate guns, the target lock appeared to break (but the target icon remained in the top right corner). It proved to be impossible to lock and fire on anything, and the icon for every single thing I locked remained in ghost form in the upper right (even warping around wouldn't clear them), resulting in a stack of ghost icons.

IDK what you've done but you've completely borked something.


e: while I'm posting here, are you guys gonna fix the "brackets randomly vanish either from space or from your overview" bug that's currently on TQ? (EG, you'll have a target locked, but that target will either vanish from your overview [but remain locked] or will remain on the overview but its in-space bracket will vanish [but it remains locked]-- both game-breaking and fiercely irritating bugs)
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#59 - 2012-11-14 16:28:03 UTC
I like the new circular layered damage indicators.

\o/

How are the top 5 damage dealers highlighted atm? Are they the only ones that blink a full circle of red on the screen?


Overall, I like what I see on your devblog, great job :)


Where I am.

Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#60 - 2012-11-14 17:17:34 UTC
The "crystal balls" look silly. Do they come with special mystic aura candles? Or, just the typical vague words of reassurance that "all will be as you wanted... as we saw it"?