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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#641 - 2012-11-12 22:17:41 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Are you saying ALL nullsec ratting and mining will cease of we no longer have local?
Thats a pretty big claim to make

All or almost all. What reason do we have to stay in nullsec and rat or mine when there's no possible safety to be had AT ALL?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2012-11-12 22:21:36 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Im hunting anyone I can kill, not just ratters, not just miners. Anyone that meets the requirement.
And Im not saying I dont get kills, but that is not the point here.

Good luck hunting anyone when there's nobody there, then.

MasterEnt wrote:
The point is here is that Local is not conductive to risk. And Im sorry, you cant say it does not give people an immediate sizing of the situation in system without actually having to do anything.

Nobody's disputing that local gives an easy way of seeing if it's worth undocking or if it would be better to just log in the L4 alt instead.

MasterEnt wrote:
Your magical fairy ratter has nothing to do with any of this. So what, people have to use a probe or Dscan or use their corp-mates to assist in intel gathering. Why does anyone need more rewards for working as a team and not being able to do it all solo or sacrificing a single slot for a probe any ship can use?

Actually, my magic fairy ratter has everything to do with all of this, since if there's no ratter, miner or anything similar to that to actually PVP with, then there's not much PVP to be had, now is there?

MasterEnt wrote:
Are you saying ALL nullsec ratting and mining will cease of we no longer have local?
Thats a pretty big claim to make

Let's take a look at deklein f.ex. That's a region which 10-11k characters are inhabiting. How many do you see in that space on a daily basis? How many of those would just hop back to hisec to do L4s etc instead if local was removed? Or, how many of them would move to WHs proper to actually get more reward for less risk?

So yes, all (or as near as makes no difference) will cease in nullsec if local is removed without various mechanics and rewards changes.

Also, I see you edited your post, and I see your confusion. If I'd wanted to ask you which ship you were PVPing in, I would ask what you were PVPing in, but instead I asked you what you were PVPing with. Reading is hard.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#643 - 2012-11-12 22:22:50 UTC
(Watch as he makes the age-old "hurr nullbears" dig)

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#644 - 2012-11-12 22:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Nullbears HURRR. You talk in circles. Quoting quotes does not make it any more true.

There is no confusion lover, the ship i am PVPing in and the ship and am PVPing are just as irrelevant to the situation.

Unfortunately, the change log does not show the reasons for my edit. It asks, but if you were as good at reading as you claim I should be, would would have read the part where it says "Reasons: None Specified"

LONG LIVE Remove Local.Twisted
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#645 - 2012-11-12 22:42:46 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Quoting quotes does not make it any more true.

Ignoring facts doesn't make them any less true.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#646 - 2012-11-12 22:53:14 UTC
"please daddy ccp I'm terrible at pvp and need all the crutches I can get so remove local so they can't see me hunting them ineptly"

"what do you mean there's nobody here? what do you mean people would rather do L4s than expend all that time and energy to barely get more rewards than L4s? hurr they're such wimpy carebears!"

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#647 - 2012-11-12 23:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Quoting quotes does not make it any more true.

Ignoring facts doesn't make them any less true.



What facts exactly?
You mean the CLAIM that all nullbear activities will stop if Local is removed?

Please show me the proof of this fact.
WH dwellers have no local, have multiple exits to multiple enemies and they still mine
HiSec miners have had Hulkageddon for eons, getting blown to hell... and they still mine.

Ships still need to be made, you guys still have massive fleets to watch each others backs. I am pretty sure someone with balls and a competent command structure will still do these activities you say won't happen any more.

So please, both of you indullge us with the evidence that local will cause the high and mighty of Nullsec to stop mining or ratting What historical basis gives you that certainty? Please do show me.

Until then its not fact, just a fear.
Null tears are T2 tears fur sure.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#648 - 2012-11-12 23:55:39 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
WH dwellers have no local, have multiple exits to multiple enemies and they still mine

Everything in WHs need to be scanned down, anoms don't. Entrances can be collapsed, gates can't. WHs have mass limits, gates don't. WHs are cynojammed, nullsec isn't.

MasterEnt wrote:
HiSec miners have had Hulkageddon for eons, getting blown to hell... and they still mine.

It's almost as if you've completely and utterly missed the barge buff.

MasterEnt wrote:
Ships still need to be made, you guys still have massive fleets to watch each others backs. I am pretty sure someone with balls and a competent command structure will still do these activities you say won't happen anay more.

Ships are made in hisec and shipped in. Haven't you gotten the memo yet?

MasterEnt wrote:
So please, both of you indullge us with the evidence that local will cause the high and mighty of Nullsec to stop mining or ratting?
What historical basis gives you that certainty? Please do show me.

"hurr you can't prove people won't leave until it happens, therefore I'm right durr"

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#649 - 2012-11-12 23:57:39 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
What facts exactly?
You mean the CLAIM that all nullbear activities will stop if Local is removed?

Please show me the proof of this fact.

It's common sense, but I'll show you why your reasoning is flawed.

MasterEnt wrote:
WH dwellers have no local, have multiple exits to multiple enemies and they still mine

And despite all this, WH is still safer than nullsec, as has been objectively demonstrated.
Can a cloaked ship find you in your site, decloak, point you, and then cyno in an entire fleet on your ass? Of course not.

MasterEnt wrote:
HiSec miners have had Hulkageddon for eons, getting blown to hell... and they still mine.

Most miners are under the impression that they're safe in highsec, and there are still many measures that they can take to make themselves safe.

In nullsec without local you have NO way of knowing who is nearby. There's no possible way to find out that someone is about to jump on top of you in your anom until it happens, because A) you don't know he's there because no local, B) you can't see cloaked ships on dscan, and C) he doesn't need to decloak and drop probes that show up on dscan in order to find you, at which point he decloaks, points you, and lights a cyno. You're dead before you know it. Local is the ONLY defense against this.

MasterEnt wrote:
Ships still need to be made, you guys still have massive fleets to watch each others backs. I am pretty sure someone with balls and a competent command structure will still do these activities you say won't happen anay more.

It has nothing to do with balls or competency. Profit in nullsec is already fairly anemic doing sites solo. Needing multiple players just so a few people could run sites severely cuts into the isk you can make, at which point highsec is a far more attractive option.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#650 - 2012-11-13 00:02:11 UTC
Of course I wont he happy until you prove what you claim.

PS - Stellar quoting skills dawg

PPS - Barge buff irrelevant. They were mining for MONTHS before it happened.

PPPS- Gate differences irrelevant, its all risk.

PPPPS - Having to work for you food is EVE, you want haz free meal.

PPPPPS - You missed a few quotes, pick and choose at will as long as it distracts from the fact you cannot support your claim.

Do you want a corn field with that strawman?
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#651 - 2012-11-13 00:04:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Are you saying ALL nullsec ratting and mining will cease of we no longer have local?
Thats a pretty big claim to make

All or almost all. What reason do we have to stay in nullsec and rat or mine when there's no possible safety to be had AT ALL?


Good to see you understand why 75% of EVE avoid Null.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#652 - 2012-11-13 00:10:22 UTC
Let's see. So you think the fact anoms are scannable without probes doesn't make a difference to WHs where everything must be scanned, you think gate differences where it's hard to bring in sufficient reinforcements to kill someone you've tackled make no difference, and unironically thinks people won't just go "well, I can expend a fucktonne of time and energy to try to keep safe, while still being vulnerable to cloaked ships with cynos (or roaming gangs of nothing but cloaked ships), or I can run L4s in peace and complete safety for a marginal reduction in rewards. Gee, I wonder why I should bother with anything other than L4s.".

Yep, all the signs of a ****** ganker who just wants daddy ccp to give them enough of an edge to actually get ganks.

Ocih wrote:
Good to see you understand why 75% of EVE avoid Null.

Interesting, nullsec is lacking local already?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#653 - 2012-11-13 00:16:29 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Let's see. So you think the fact anoms are scannable without probes doesn't make a difference to WHs where everything must be scanned, you think gate differences where it's hard to bring in sufficient reinforcements to kill someone you've tackled make no difference, and unironically thinks people won't just go "well, I can expend a fucktonne of time and energy to try to keep safe, while still being vulnerable to cloaked ships with cynos (or roaming gangs of nothing but cloaked ships), or I can run L4s in peace and complete safety for a marginal reduction in rewards. Gee, I wonder why I should bother with anything other than L4s.".

Yep, all the signs of a ****** ganker who just wants daddy ccp to give them enough of an edge to actually get ganks.

Ocih wrote:
Good to see you understand why 75% of EVE avoid Null.

Interesting, nullsec is lacking local already?


It lacks safety for anyone not in the NAP train. You knew that's what I meant though, back to the troll.
Mirima Thurander
#654 - 2012-11-13 00:36:54 UTC
Good to see this thread is still getting the point across.


Death to local!

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#655 - 2012-11-13 00:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
What facts exactly?
You mean the CLAIM that all nullbear activities will stop if Local is removed?

Please show me the proof of this fact.

It's common sense, but I'll show you why your reasoning is flawed.



Touching a hot stove resulting in a burn is common sense
Not breathing results in death is common sense

Both of which are based on history and evidence of fact... resulting in common sense.
You claim has neither.

Despite all the glorious quoting you and your buddy are doing, you still have not shown how a removal of local will result in a halting of Nullbear activities. All you did was make ANOTHER claim that WH space is safer... again, with no evidence.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#656 - 2012-11-13 01:02:45 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
All you did was make ANOTHER claim that WH space is safer... again, with no evidence.

Mass limits, no fixed gates, needs to be scanned down, vs no limits, don't need to use probes, can use hotdrops once you've caught one. Gee, I wonder what sort of impact these differences can possibly have.

And you're going to keep telling us WHs are more dangerous than nullsec would be without local, and certainly would not be even more depopulated than they already are?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
octahexx Charante
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#657 - 2012-11-13 01:18:36 UTC
wouldnt it be cheaper for ccp to just remove op from the game instead of local?
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#658 - 2012-11-13 01:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Lord Zim wrote:
Mass limits, no fixed gates, needs to be scanned down, vs no limits, don't need to use probes, can use hotdrops once you've caught one.


And the sky is blue, and the sun is bright.
Facts in themselves to be sure, still does not prove nullbear activities will cease if local is removed.

And I'm sorry... did you say you don't need to use probes in WHs?
Who the frack are you kidding

Either way - Still avoiding the main subject. and added yet another claim.
You are good at claims, should work for the insurance industry.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#659 - 2012-11-13 01:32:21 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
still does not prove nullbear activities will cease if local is removed.

I realize you really need that crutch so you'll keep denying that more effort and risk for the same reward, when hisec's rewards are as high as they are and its effort levels are near nil will entice the few who haven't moved already back into hisec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#660 - 2012-11-13 01:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Lord Zim wrote:
I realize you really need that crutch so you'll keep denying that more effort and risk for the same reward, when hisec's rewards are as high as they are and its effort levels are near nil will entice the few who haven't moved already back into hisec.


Yes, for some of us, requiring evidence is a crutch.
Good argument pal.