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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2012-11-12 20:41:37 UTC
Alundil wrote:
LOL - you're quite welcome. Having come from WH living primarily I've gotten used to it and actually kind of like it. But also note (in a nod to your nod about reading and comprehension et al) I didn't say or espouse any plan to alter the status quo. I merely stated what I might prefer.

If only WH style local would've been accompanied with the rest of WH style mechanics and payouts, then, eh?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alundil
Rolled Out
#622 - 2012-11-12 20:41:46 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
and gates could be destroyed (with considerable sustained effort).

Supercap+dread blob laughs at your "considerable sustained effort".



Now that I can agree with. If SC/Dreads can (figuratively) reduce a POS and other "mega-EHP" structures to RF in a matter of minutes then "considerable effort" is somewhat of a misnomer (aside from getting x number of SC/Dread pilots to logon for the OP and jump a few times).

I'm right behind you
Alundil
Rolled Out
#623 - 2012-11-12 20:48:11 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Alundil wrote:
LOL - you're quite welcome. Having come from WH living primarily I've gotten used to it and actually kind of like it. But also note (in a nod to your nod about reading and comprehension et al) I didn't say or espouse any plan to alter the status quo. I merely stated what I might prefer.

If only WH style local would've been accompanied with the rest of WH style mechanics and payouts, then, eh?


If you're implying that 0.0 is more profitable than WH I can only say this:

Making big 0.0 ISK is very resource intensive. What I mean by this is that it takes a large organized effort (generally an alliance or coalition level effort) to secure the 0.0 space long enough to begin making the crazy ISK. Logistics structures (JB and CJ), SOV upgrades and assorted structures, Moon mining arrays (which the individual pilot never really sees unless corrupt corp director etc).

That's not to say that WH ISK is easy to come by, but there's considerably less effort involved in setting up and maintaining a busy WH operation. Making a bil per day is not unheard of in WH corps. I have a pretty good idea of what it takes too. C5/C6 escalations means it's very possible. C2/3/4 equally possible but takes more work/pilots to do it.

But none of those require the kind of sov/logistical setup that 0.0 (in its present state - not to say it's optimal) requires.

I'm right behind you
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#624 - 2012-11-12 20:50:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
and gates could be destroyed (with considerable sustained effort).

Supercap+dread blob laughs at your "considerable sustained effort".


Those big boys woulnd't laugh at the 12 reinforce timers I'd put on gates *evil laugh*.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#625 - 2012-11-12 20:51:32 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Alundil wrote:
LOL - you're quite welcome. Having come from WH living primarily I've gotten used to it and actually kind of like it. But also note (in a nod to your nod about reading and comprehension et al) I didn't say or espouse any plan to alter the status quo. I merely stated what I might prefer.

If only WH style local would've been accompanied with the rest of WH style mechanics and payouts, then, eh?


If you're implying that 0.0 is more profitable than WH I can only say this:

Making big 0.0 ISK is very resource intensive. What I mean by this is that it takes a large organized effort (generally an alliance or coalition level effort) to secure the 0.0 space long enough to begin making the crazy ISK. Logistics structures (JB and CJ), SOV upgrades and assorted structures, Moon mining arrays (which the individual pilot never really sees unless corrupt corp director etc).

That's not to say that WH ISK is easy to come by, but there's considerably less effort involved in setting up and maintaining a busy WH operation. Making a bil per day is not unheard of in WH corps. I have a pretty good idea of what it takes too. C5/C6 escalations means it's very possible. C2/3/4 equally possible but takes more work/pilots to do it.

But none of those require the kind of sov/logistical setup that 0.0 (in its present state - not to say it's optimal) requires.

No, he's not implying that at all.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#626 - 2012-11-12 20:54:27 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Alundil wrote:
LOL - you're quite welcome. Having come from WH living primarily I've gotten used to it and actually kind of like it. But also note (in a nod to your nod about reading and comprehension et al) I didn't say or espouse any plan to alter the status quo. I merely stated what I might prefer.

If only WH style local would've been accompanied with the rest of WH style mechanics and payouts, then, eh?


If you're implying that 0.0 is more profitable than WH

Huh, I'm curious as to how did you manage to get "nullsec is more profitable" out of that, especially since what I was inferring was that WH style local with nullsec payouts wouldn't be good because it wouldn't be worth spending the time in nullsec then.

I mean, less worth it than it already is.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nar Zandev
Epidemic Inc.
#627 - 2012-11-12 21:30:05 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


You're happy with your relative safety thanks to depletable gates, I'm happy with the relative safety of my local when I'm the hunter or when I'm the prey.
The hole point being that if you really want null to become like wh without local then there's no reason why you should keep such and advantage of depletable gates.

I don't get it why this is so hard for you guys to understand.


You see, my whole point had nothing to do with mass effect wormholes, gates, the precious moonpoo and other mechanics.

I just wanted to clarify a misconception that local helps PVP. It only hinders PVP. It is and will always be only a security measure that nullers rely on very hard . And it has nothing to do with the harsh environment that null should be.
But, I am sure if there would be a topic with remove mass collapse from whs there would be claims that it adds to jaba jaba..

So, I have proved that with the current local mechanic there is more PVP in whs than in null. And that is by a very big factor (at least 4.2 more PVP due to lack of local, a very big factor). But as we hear the miners weeping, the haulers screaming in terror when they die due to gankers, we hear the nullers crying for their sweet local protection. It`s only natural for the week to ask for help and protection. And I have to say that I am ashamed by so many fellow null players vociferating against harsher environments.


Nevertheless, to be clear, I am for changing mechanics regarding system scanning and local removal (or smth in that direction). It would improve combat and introduce more dynamics into null space, things that will benefit all players.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#628 - 2012-11-12 21:33:29 UTC
Nar Zandev wrote:
I just wanted to clarify a misconception that local helps PVP. It only hinders PVP. It is and will always be only a security measure that nullers rely on very hard . And it has nothing to do with the harsh environment that null should be.

Translation: please, daddy ccp, remove local so I can gank ratters because I'm terrible at it and need all the help I can get.

Nar Zandev wrote:
So, I have proved that with the current local mechanic there is more PVP in whs than in null.

No, no you haven't.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#629 - 2012-11-12 21:34:08 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.



Are you fu@king serious? LOL
Miner mining - ratters ratting - all dock / POS up as soon as they see local jump.
They ABSOLUTELY have to do with each other.

Why is everyone so desperate to have some magical box that gives you instant intel on one hand, then complain there is not enough PVP on the other.
Sensless
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#630 - 2012-11-12 21:36:20 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.



Are you fu@king serious? LOL
Miner mining - ratters ratting - all dock / POS up as soon as they see local jump.
They ABSOLUTELY have to do with each other.

Why is everyone so desperate to have some magical box that gives you instant intel on one hand, then complain there is not enough PVP on the other.
Sensless

Remove local without increasing rewards, and hey presto all the targets you're so desperate to gank but you can't because you're terrible at it are also gone.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#631 - 2012-11-12 21:36:35 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.



Are you fu@king serious? LOL
Miner mining - ratters ratting - all dock / POS up as soon as they see local jump.
They ABSOLUTELY have to do with each other.

Why is everyone so desperate to have some magical box that gives you instant intel on one hand, then complain there is not enough PVP on the other.
Sensless



Yes because having depletable gates at will does not create safety, it's a lie and null sec guys are all bad at eve. (I can confirm I'm bad indeed)

brb
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#632 - 2012-11-12 21:39:28 UTC
I am also disappointed in NullSec over this.
Magic Intel Box is Magical.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#633 - 2012-11-12 21:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Yes because having depletable gates at will does not create safety, it's a lie and null sec guys are all bad at eve. (I can confirm I'm bad indeed)


Last night my WH had "depletable gates" to 2 nullsecs, 1 lowsecs and 4 other wormhole systems. (SEVEN "Gates") As a result, I had 6 large hostile alliances and a groups of lowsec pirates at my gates.

How the hell is that safe? Tell me of a NullSec system that has that many gates with that many different potential enemies? Give me a break.



Lord Zim wrote:
Remove local without increasing rewards, and hey presto all the targets you're so desperate to gank but you can't because you're terrible at it are also gone.


What rewards,? We are talking about PVP here and a kill is a kill. WTF does this have to do with ratting or any other isk faucet. Don't attack my assumed PVP skills because you cannot be bothered to admit that people tend to dock / POS up when they see local get in a few more people they don't know. If you want to protect your magical intel box, fine. But at least use a good argument.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#634 - 2012-11-12 21:50:02 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Remove local without increasing rewards, and hey presto all the targets you're so desperate to gank but you can't because you're terrible at it are also gone.


What rewards,? We are talking about PVP here and a kill is a kill. WTF does this have to do with ratting or any other isk faucet. Dont attack my assumed PVP skills because you cannot be bothered to admit that people tend to dock / POS up when they see local get a few more people they dont know. If you want to protect your magical intel box, fine. But at least use a good argument.

So you're going to PVP with what, then? The magic fairy ratter which doesn't exist?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#635 - 2012-11-12 21:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Lord Zim wrote:
So you're going to PVP with what, then? The magic fairy ratter which doesn't exist?


wat? No, I would use any of the 200+ ships in EVE suited to the occasion?
Do you PVP? Or do you just use the Local Channel to hide in your Station or POS when a stranger comes in?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#636 - 2012-11-12 21:53:09 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Remove local without increasing rewards, and hey presto all the targets you're so desperate to gank but you can't because you're terrible at it are also gone.


What rewards,? We are talking about PVP here and a kill is a kill. WTF does this have to do with ratting or any other isk faucet. Dont attack my assumed PVP skills because you cannot be bothered to admit that people tend to dock / POS up when they see local get a few more people they dont know. If you want to protect your magical intel box, fine. But at least use a good argument.

So you're going to PVP with what, then? The magic fairy ratter which doesn't exist?


wat? Do you PVP?

do you even lift

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#637 - 2012-11-12 21:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Lord Zim wrote:
do you even lift



Well, thanks for invalidating your position on the subject.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#638 - 2012-11-12 21:58:15 UTC
I do PVP, in large fleets. Now, you've been talking about "people tend to dock/POS up when they see local get a few more people they dont' know", that means you're hunting ratters or miners etc. How about you answer the question, which magic fairy ratter are you going to be hunting if you remove local from null without making any changes to rewards or other game mechanics which let roamers find them without using a single probe?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#639 - 2012-11-12 22:09:00 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
But at least use a good argument.

Why should we bother, since it's obvious you don't bother reading them?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2012-11-12 22:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterEnt
Lord Zim wrote:
I do PVP, in large fleets. Now, you've been talking about "people tend to dock/POS up when they see local get a few more people they dont' know", that means you're hunting ratters or miners etc. How about you answer the question, which magic fairy ratter are you going to be hunting if you remove local from null without making any changes to rewards or other game mechanics which let roamers find them without using a single probe?


Im hunting anyone I can kill, not just ratters, not just miners. Anyone that meets the requirement.
And Im not saying I dont get kills, but that is not the point here.

The point is here is that Local is not conductive to risk. And Im sorry, you really cannot say it does not give people an immediate sizing of the situation in system without actually having to do anything active from a gameplay persepective. Its lazy.

Your magical fairy ratter has nothing to do with any of this. So what, people have to use a probe or Dscan or use their corp-mates to assist in intel gathering. Why does anyone need more rewards for working as a team and not being able to do it all solo or sacrificing a single slot for a probe any ship can use?

Are you saying ALL nullsec ratting and mining will cease of we no longer have local?
Thats a pretty big claim to make.