EVE General Discussion

You don’t want FW to work for huge numbers from alliances but you also don’t want it to work for solo pilots either. Let me guess, you want it to work for the size groups your corp typically flies in and no one else.

The militia should be available to solo pvpers. Solo pvpers are often solo because they can’t commit to blocks of time to be available in a fleet. This also means that these same pvpers will not work out well for null sec. EVE is loses/never had this playerbase and I would be willing to bet it’s a huge hit to their subscription base.

Moreover due to concerns over spies some fcs want you to get some solo kills before you can join their fleets.

As far as mini games with hacking I’m not really sure what that would be. But, why not have the ship versus ship pvp combat be the minigame!? Small scale pvp is one thing CCP did extraordinarily well. Small scale pvp is engaging challenging requires strategy tactics and thinking on your feet. Yet CCP for some reason never yet properly implemented a mechanic to bring this about. Why not have fw plexing be that mechanic?

Since the plexes are ship size restricted I really don’t see too much of an issue with large groups joining fw. It’s not like most blobs will send their tackle into a minor plex. Fleet tackle typically aren’t set up well for small scale pvp. I can sit in very crowded systems alone in a plex for hours sometimes. I often think they are like safe spots. Hell I think eve would be a better place if there were 30 frigates barging into a minor plex on me – even if I wouldn’t stay to fight 30 v 1.

Really as long as there are enough plexes spawning throughout all 8 regions of fw then its very unlikely anyone will be able to blob their way to a win. If I am wrong and huge numbers start showing up in faction war, ccp could open up the pirate factions and set up their alliances such that they could help even things out. That problem is allot better than always going into a plex and sitting there for hours with no one else but the npcs.







At least for amarr this is an exaggeration. Many people who complain about missions are those who already farmed them like crazy have tons of isk and don’t want to run them anymore. But they don’t want other people to get the isk they got. I don’t think it applies to you but it’s just an observation I have made.

FW missions aren’t all that great and I think they are fairly competitive with other sources of income.

Yes all the factions should be evened out and the rats should all have painters so they can’t be soloed in a sb. I think the amarr missions are pretty balanced.

The problem is not that fw pays so well the problem is that it pays decent but there are very few opportunities to blow up that isk in a fun way. That’s why everyone is flying these crazy expensive ships. If we had constant quality small scale pvp in plexes instead of just ganks on gates people would actually be using that isk to replace lost ships.

But whatever I think CCP actually designed a nice mission mechanic for low sec, when they did the fw missions. But if everyone apparently hates them I guess they can change them. The amount of lp you get after the agent changes is pretty crazy.

Hans I do the same thing as you. I do use the missions for isk. I can't do them solo in an sb I have to use a speed tanker and sb or a bc. But I yeah I spend the isk to make sure I have pvp ships ready and waiting.



Why all the animosity toward solo players?

Faction war is a good fit for people who don't have the time to spend developing personal relationships in game and/or dealing with the null sec politics.

Are you just trying to drive solo players out of fw or out of eve as a whole?

I really don't understand.

Alliances in FW are stupid. Not needed, will not fix nor change anything.

There's only one change needed and that is in reward. Reward for PVPing, reward for PVEing/plexing/sov.

First, LP reward for PVP needs to go up. A LOT. I should be able to make a decent living killing people, dependent perhaps on militia rank. Consider the PVP-oriented FW person a "mercenary" of sorts, a hired professional soldier. We need to make money some way, right? I should be able to sustain quite a bit of income from being a good PVPer (if I were).

Second, militia as a whole needs incentive to plex and capture systems. The first step would be to replace the Bunker with an actual Fortress-style station that can only be docked in by the owner of said station. Turning a system would involve sieging the station rather than some boring, static bunker. Give incredible deals for manufacturing and research and **** for members of the owning militia to promote industrialist members to use them as production and market bases. Give them station guns that will attack enemy militias and pirates. Essentially turn them into the lowsec equivalent of nullsec outposts (with guns). A safe-haven for members of each militia to live, base out of, form fleets and whatever.

Third, hire and/or assign a GM to oversee FW. Call him a "WarMaster" whatever I don't care. But task him with managing inter-militia crap since we can't, like investigating and booting spies and harassing wardecs and whatnot. His entire job would be to oversee FW, sit in all the Militia channels, and be a ******* GM.

Fourth, provide a way to more easily fix or at least neutralize standings gains/losses wrought via FW. For example I know people who left FW a year ago and still can't get into 1/2 of empire space because their standings are so ****** beyond repair. The aspect of a few months of fun ruining half the rest of the game for you forever isn't appealing at all. Provide a way for people leaving FW to get a "pardon", resetting their empire standings to 0.0 (whether positive or neutral before), and put a limit on this like a 6 month cooldown timer before being allowed to join another militia or militia corp. Also a requirement of having been in said militia for some number of months to get this "pardon" in the first place (otherwise people would just use it every once in awhile by hopping into militia for 24 hours then leaving). At the same time increase the rate at which killing your faction's enemies increases your own standings. I used to be in Minmatar militia before I joined Amarr, and that was almost 2 years ago -- to this day I still have negative Amarr Empire standings (-3 IIRC) even though my 24th IC standings are +10. I had to grind up a bunch of ****** Amarr Navy corp missions just to get my standings up to something acceptable to do the Angel arc. This is ****, I've literally killed and lost billions upon billions of ISk worth of **** for the Amarr Empire and they still pretty much hate me? Yeah no thanks.

I like this.

As for the warmaster - I dont see any reason to involve CCP. Having a game master mediate in Faction Warfare politics would be seen by most players in the game as meddling in its most extreme fashion - look at the controversy over the few times a CCP employee has used their position to influence in-game activity. Also, I think its a bit of an insult to the players themselves. I think there are certainly candidates within all the militias who have the leadership to take charge of the racial militia itself. Not all Faction Warfare pilots are bloodthirsty asshats, just the majority of them :) I think if we need a war leader, give us war leader mechanics. Admittedly, I don't know how Aliiances vote their leaders, but I'm sure there's an Alliance director with privileges akin to a corp CEO.

I think some simple but limited mechanics that could be used to allow players on all sides to vote in (and out!) an elected war master, which may even symbolically inspire more cooperation between militia corporations. I can only speak for the Minmatar, but we play out sadly too much like our lore stereotype - a bunch of bickering tribes with our own competitive drive, forfeiting greater accomplishment in favor of counting kills. But hell, counting kills is all we have now until CCP tweaks the mechanics to offer players something else to aim for. And at least we have good fun with our ongoing rivalry against each other for glory and trophy kills.

In general, I think the militia could be offered some Alliance-like structures in terms of organizations, including legitimizing elements like allowing them as a competitor in Alliance Tournaments (without having to forsake our corporations to do so) . The dividing factor, of course, being that Factions would not be able to hold or access nullsec sov (this has been more or less been unofficially agreed upon), but could still operate within their slice of lowsec space AS an alliance, in a general sense. Seperate but equal? But I can see how some might see this as unneccesary complication.

As to your statements on standings, Zvero, you are absolutely spot on. Standings mean a LOT to players - they are both a symbol of your activity, who you stand for, and they have profound gameplay implications. This is very very important for CCP developers to understand - standings are sacred to us as pilots. They are our egos, our ids, they define us, where we go, what we can do, and what we actually do.

Currently, enlisting and engaging in Faction Warfare permanently tanks one standings. Many of us have branded ourselves with one faction, and are willing to deal with the life-long consequences of that. But this is not something to be handed out lightly, there should be opportunity for players to join, experiment, and leave, without a permanent scar. Without an easy standings repair option, this is simply a huge barrier to players, and even new players could be potentially deterred if they are told "there is no going back"....many may put off FW till they figure the game out first - instead of using Faction Warfare as a friendly training ground for young PvP enthusiasts.

I have to just go back and quote this. Some SIMPLE changes that would make FW so much better.

Great post from a FW vet!

Hey guys

Great feedback in this thread. I'm taking a few notes and getting a few ideas.

One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.

I would be 100 percent FOR moving FW into ALL sec of space. Right now it is far too easy to fly the banner of your militia and actually not participate. Making the battle be over any sec system would make things huge REALLY quickly. (Tho obviously you need to keep the front line concept otherwise everyone will just make staight for jita battles and Tidi jita.)

In my opinion the basic militia corp needs to be removed. It needs to be an alliance for players to join only due to the HUGE number of spies. The noobs are just automatically going for the base corp and after being ignored just move on instead of actually getting to experience FW. Make it bring up the corp finder for those involved in that faction.

Well I quit due to FW changes so I feel the need to jump in here.


1: Real reasons to take over systems. Think the eve online board game. Where having more systems gives you some kinda of tactial advantage. Wether that be a...

LP reward per day to active players, based on number of systems controlled.

Only letting the owners of each system dock in said systems space stations.

FW players get 0.0 levels of PI income if all systems connected to the said system are under that factions control. Would make taking out PI structures a small gang objective. Behind enemy lines.

fog of war within 1 system lifted for real time battlefield recon on war targets, and fleet sizes.

free repairs every 1 hour in controlled systems.

Again, like the eve online board game, you must control all surrounding systems to gain bonuses.

2.Don't remove NPCs from high sec, make them killable with a sizable fleet. a fleet of say 10 cruisers can go in, and take out the local faction police, and it stays that way for a bit. maybe... 20 minutes. Gives the defenders a bonus as they can come to local faction police's assistance. In general Fw should be about PvP WITH npcs on your side. Wether that be NPC ships, or NPC stations. They should be rewarding our efforts.

3. Events where NPCs can be found fighting each other.
This would be fun becuase you would just wrap to a gate to find a minmatar cargo runner with escort under attack by ammar raiders. You can join in and defend the cargo vessal while it slowly tried to burn to the gate, or you can help shoot it down. No site to pop, no mission to activate. Just real time events in space, that you can skip on by, or take part in.

Obviously you would be triggering the event to create by warping to the gate. But by making it random, and based on current FW sov, it would make the war feel alive!

4.Real time tactical map.
There should be a map, with built in fleet finder, that shows all enemy ships in or around your systems, and fleet size. And what they are doing. a fog of war you could say. Being able to see and defend your area will give reasons to fight over territory.

5.Only border systems should be contestable.
Bring the fight to the front lines. It should be 5 times easier to contest a system that is surrounded by both sides. And harder to contest systems that are deep within either sides space. You just have to add more gates so there is no super choke point. By bring the pvp into focus in 8-12 systems, People would be able to find a good large scale fight if they wanted one. again don't get rid of the size requirments for the FW sites. Let people form up frigates fleets, and give them frigate only sites to PvP in. which we allready have now, but by having less of them you might get people to fight each other.


6.Behind enemy lines objectives
Or with all this front line action, gives players a reason to dive deep into enemy space. Make PI targets juicy no reinforcement timers, there should be a downside to getting 0.0 income in low sec Instead of destroying a PI structure you would just shut it down for 24-48 hours maybe?. Especially with the "real time" recon map.

Other targets could be included in each system. Like radar sites, that if taken out, disrupt the real time recon map. creating systems that go back to needed scouts to see whats going on. This would let small fleets wreck havoc on enemy intell without having to get a fleet of 50 people.

Also include other structures in fully controlled systems. The idea being the faction your fighting for is building them as you secure territory. I mean the factions should be doing something to reward our hard work, and also kinda just doing what they wanted in the 1st place. Make the player feel like they are really fighting for something. Right now you taker over a bunch of systems, and your faction doesn't really seem to give a ****. They don't expand, or build new bases. they just don't care. I'm not saying take away control from the players, I'm saying focus on the idea that if you leave FW to go play in 0.0, one advantage is you get to upgrade your own systems, while FW is a 0.0 lite, pvp training ground.


I'm not saying all my idea are great, or feasible. but I feel, in general something to this extreme is what is needed, while working inside the current system we have.

If you read this, i just want to say thank you.

ugh double post/