EVE General Discussion

In my opinion, actions where the entirety of the contents of a post is deleted should result in the post *itself* being deleted. Leaving stubs like this around simply clutters the thread, and invites discussion of the moderation action within the thread. The correct procedure (again, IMHO) would be:

1. Temporarily lock the thread.
2. Copy the unedited post's contents to an email body.
3. Address the email to the poster
4. Add explanation about why the post was deleted.
5. Send email.
6. Delete original post.
7. Scan subsequent posts for copies of the deleted post (or fragments).
8. Delete copies / fragments. If this results in an empty post, then repeat steps 2-6.
9. Remove temporary lock.

MDD

WTB that option (without the "undelete" command of course). Check that -- WTB forum setting "Hide deleted posts completely" that completely hides them.


I understand that, which is why I said to Eve mail the character about the post. And just to reinforce: this is only for completely deleted posts; procedure for moderator-altered posts is unchanged.

When you leave the "we deleted this post" contents it is essentially spam to the rest of us. If you get "why did you delete my post?" questions with my procedure (where there is an Eve mail sent), then the proper response would be "Read your Eve mail, dumbass." Although you *might* want to leave off the last word and simply think it.


MDD

That's the entire point: I didn't discuss the ban as such, didn't really mind, accepted it and also communicated that to CCP Guard - hence I didn't mention the ISDs name or went into detail on the thread or posts involved. That's as unpersonal as things can possibly get.

I wasn't discussing the ban at all, but was making you aware of possible exploits allowing ISD members to achieve unauthorized bans by abusing forum mechanics.

So what actually happened was that I was banned for 'trolling' by an obvious Troll that managed to sneak into your volunteer team.

Hoping for raised awareness for trolls within your ranks.

Best Regards,

LCO

Hi,

Look, you need to understand something here, I thought I'd explained this already but as it's not come across I'll state it again in the clearest terms possible.

* ISD volunteers cannot Ban. Period. End of story. It's not a case of can but won't; it's a case of cannot.

* Posts deleted by ISD volunteers do not cause someone to get banned automatically.

* ISD volunteers cannot make CCP ban people.

We've told you that the volunteer moderation team is not responsible for this action, I've explained a number of times exactly why this is the case too. CCP Falcon has told you not to keep bringing this individual case up in public too.

Please take heed and discuss this via petition.

I checked the specific ISDs information and apparently, he's just a regular CCL, so a volunteer moderating team member.

I was banned without any warning for a post that didn't compromise any forum rules.

So if no infraction CCL members are able to give out results in an automatic ban and they can't make CCP ban people, my ban would have been impossible.

That leaves room for two options:

a) You're wrong.
b) Some CCP member randomly stepped accross my post at the very same time the CCL member did and coincidentally considered a perfectly legit post as ban-worthy.


Look - I apparently need to be very clear on this:

- I don't discuss the ban as such, hence I never mentioned the CCL member or even the thread involved.
- Banning people without any warning for posts that don't conflict with any forum rules is highly questionable and an issue of public interest, hence I don't restrict this to petitions or private messaging.
- If - as you obviously claim - some CCP member coincidentally stumbled accross my post at the very same time the CCL did and considered it worthy of an unwarned ban, there should be transparency on who issued it.

LCO, if you wish to know the specifics of your ban and who issued it, because for some reason you did not receive proper notification through the system, please file a petition. If you feel there is some sort of "exploit" that allows CCL to issue bans (there isn't, but let's assume there was), you should also send a petition so that we can immediately investigate it.

That is the ONLY proper way to deal with this issue. Continuing to hound ISD when you have been explicitly informed that what you are claiming is not possible is swiftly approaching harassment.

The fact still stands that our policy has been the same for as long as EVE Online has been around :

We do not share information regarding any form of petition, customer service or account actions with third parties. Any discourse between CCP and a player in terms of dealing with warnings, bans, petitions or account management is private, and is between the player in question, and CCP.

That's why we ask people to file a petition, because we will not release information of this nature to the forums. It also forms part of our rules that players will respect this fact and treat correspondence between themselves and CCP as confidential.

In the end, it's been stated multiple times in this thread that if people have general comments and questions, or constructive criticism regarding moderation, they can post in this thread.

For specific problems with individual members of the ISD Volunteer Team or CCP Games, or for queries regarding specific warnings, bans or moderation actions, file a petition under the category "Other Issues" and the subcategory "Forums", and we'll investigate and give feedback.

If people genuinely have queries, and come to us in a calm and civil manner requesting further information then it's not a problem for us to investigate.

Tough.

With respect I believe you should read my post again.

Nowhere in my post do I suggest CCP engage in making public any information regarding forum ban on this forum or any other place.

I am questioning why it is being made so difficult for the customer when CCP could simply just send an email or EVE mail.

One would have to assume you have the detail right in front of you and could simply do this. It could be seen to appear that CCP are just choosing to make this customer jump through additional hoops. We're already discussing the matter in a general and non-detailed way. To effectively close the loop for customers when it is clear they obviously have concerns really doesn't seem to be much of a stretch for anyone here with the required information.

In my opinion I feel that this reply represents what I generally find that is wrong with much of with CCP's community engagement. Forum posts are seemingly not interpreted correctly, replies are given that do not seem completely in line with original posts. There seems to be an ongoing pattern of judgement issues.

It is a concern.

As for "petitions", the fact that no correspondence can be posted or linked to it is simply a process that has no transparency.
I am unsure of what the posted "Big smile" is meant to represent in the context of your post.
This reply from a CCP employee is simply just a shock!

If this is the general type of response to differences in viewpoints a customer could receive in public then one could only wonder at the nature of replies to that customer in the context of a "petition" may encounter.

I must confess, I am not left comforted by the posts by CCP I am reading in this thread today.

And this attitude is itself unacceptable.