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FW: I-hub and system upgrades

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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#581 - 2012-11-08 20:47:12 UTC
Momma said knock you out!
Destru Kaneda
Arzad Police Department
#582 - 2012-11-08 20:59:48 UTC
Breathing new life into Metro? Well, I never. Good job, guys.

I like it best when the beats are naked.
kraiklyn Asatru
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#583 - 2012-11-08 21:14:07 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


Players have brought up the geography of the warzone off and on for years, this is nothing new. Back in April, I forwarded some suggestions to CCP regarding bypassing the Hof pipe, and CCP brought up the map again at the summit. At the time, it wasn't something that most players considered more important than fixing the broken plex mechanics and economic issues that were plaguing FW so it didn't get as much hype, but as the plex mechanics and WZC issues have been buttoned up one by one more and more players zoomed in on it again as one of the remaining issues making the Amarr / Minmatar warzone less dynamic than it could be.

In other words, the bottlenecks in our warzone have been talked about as long as players have been talking about FW reform, so there's been plenty of time for everyone to speak up and voice their support or opposition. You can blame Amarr whining all you want, but the bottom line is that this is one of those common sense changes that allows for more fighting to occur where it hasn't been as active historically. I sincerely hope the Amarr take advantage of this opportunity and hit us hard when this goes live, I'm sure it will keep your pilots busy and having fun.


Don't worry its ideal for us, but will you change maps every time people complain? I agree with this, but this is the first change to gates since Yulai right? That was only technical purposes. I am glad you are putting it in Eszur though. We can finally get the camp to the next level, we havent been camping much recently since there is no traffic anyway. So we can't be arsed. Now we will finally get some kills. What the question is, if you change this will you also change other bottlenecks in eve?
Kryten2X4B523P
SMaK Enterprises
Ushra'Khan
#584 - 2012-11-08 21:26:28 UTC
Quote:
In other words, the bottlenecks in our warzone have been talked about as long as players have been talking about FW reform,


Noones having a pop at you Hans. I infer from your post you think CCP have quorum support for this - perhaps your right.

But if theres going to be a flash patch impacting MOTHRA and TRIAD don't expect support from them unless they're consulted first.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#585 - 2012-11-08 21:35:01 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
T.R.I.A.D. is gonna be mad.


That is irrelevant.


Agreed! Cool


Yep, the sudden patch really put the Caldari into a bad position. But at the end of the day it doesn't really matter, I would rather have changes that open up the warzone more and expand on the game then consistently worry about my own vested interests.


I agree!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#586 - 2012-11-08 21:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ugleb
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I've got another FW update to our plan.

We've been getting a lot of feedback about problems with the geographical layout in the Amarr/Minmatar warzone. We spent some time discussing the options with players from both factions a few months ago, but we had not announced anything because we were not sure if we could fit it into our plan for the release.

While doing some triaging of the FW work to fit as much as possible into Retribution we realized that getting these geography changes in would have a good benefit to time ratio so we're putting it into the plan.

Our plan for the moment is to add three new jump gates to the warzone:

  • Kurniainen (Bleak Lands) to Isbrabata (Metropolis)
  • Siseide (Heimatar) to Eszur (Metropolis)
  • Gulmorogod (Heimatar) to Egmar (Metropolis)

Let us know what you think!

:Edit: Cearain and Marcel below had the excellent idea of posting the link to Dotlan's map of the warzone. I really should have included that with the post so I'm going to shamelessly steal the idea from them just in case people don't read down two posts.


I like that the Kurniainen to Isbrata gate opens up a third route between Mimmatar/Amarr space that doesn't rely on the Vard/Auga area, that should open up a whole new part of the map for attacking each other through.

I'm not sure I like the the Siseide to Eszur link so much, it makes Auga/Kourmonen that bit closer for those living there (it is already fairly popular). I do agree with the need to reduce the power of camping Hofjaldgund though and I'm struggling to suggest a better option atm other than maybe Gebuladi. I may be overly hung up on Eszur as I live there atm. *shrug*

I'm all for the Gulm/Egmar link, that should open up Metropolis quite nicely.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

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Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#587 - 2012-11-08 22:03:36 UTC
Kryten2X4B523P wrote:
Quote:
In other words, the bottlenecks in our warzone have been talked about as long as players have been talking about FW reform,


Noones having a pop at you Hans. I infer from your post you think CCP have quorum support for this - perhaps your right.

But if theres going to be a flash patch impacting MOTHRA and TRIAD don't expect support from them unless they're consulted first.


This going into Retribution 1.0 on the 4th, so nearly a month to get anything ready that needs to be done. This doesn't make Eszur strategically unimportant I think, just less of the one-gate-to-rule-Metropolis.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

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Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#588 - 2012-11-08 22:13:39 UTC
kraiklyn Asatru wrote:
Don't worry its ideal for us, but will you change maps every time people complain? I agree with this, but this is the first change to gates since Yulai right? That was only technical purposes. I am glad you are putting it in Eszur though. We can finally get the camp to the next level, we havent been camping much recently since there is no traffic anyway. So we can't be arsed. Now we will finally get some kills. What the question is, if you change this will you also change other bottlenecks in eve?


There were changes more recently made around Rens and Jita but those were also about bypassing hubs similar to Yulai.

I'm struggling to recall when, but I think a few tweaks were once made to a few null sec entry point bottlenecks to make null a little less suicidal to jump into, although that might have been what finished off the dinosaurs; moving gates is heavy work! If I'm remembering correctly then this would be only the second time that the map has been modified for game balance reasons.

Speaking as a Minmatar though, I think these changes will result in a better game even if they will benefit my enemy more in the foreseeable future. A more balanced map will hopefully lead to a more competitive fight in the long run. It also means that post-Retribution the Amarr militia have less things to legitimately complain about and can get on with their reclaiming nonsense. ;)

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Tennnagis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#589 - 2012-11-08 22:32:53 UTC
Being in both sides of FW at different times, resupply is much harder for Amarr without trade hubs like dodixie available. Anything that could help imbalance to trade hubs would be nice.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#590 - 2012-11-08 22:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Tennnagis wrote:
Being in both sides of FW at different times, resupply is much harder for Amarr without trade hubs like dodixie available. Anything that could help imbalance to trade hubs would be nice.

Jita -- RED FROG ---> High Sec System Near Warzone --- BLACK FROG ---> Your low sec base. My work here is done. Next FW issue please.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#591 - 2012-11-08 23:09:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Kryten2X4B523P wrote:
Noones having a pop at you Hans. I infer from your post you think CCP have quorum support for this - perhaps your right.

But if theres going to be a flash patch impacting MOTHRA and TRIAD don't expect support from them unless they're consulted first.
Hans doesn't consult anyone. If you don't approach him, he assumes you don't exist.

CCP asked Hans about the geography back at the summit. He sat on his hands about it until Pinky Feldman approached him in September. Hans could have approached the community as a whole (making use of the forums) about the geography, but instead he waits until one motivated person approaches him several months later. He then facilitates conversation between Pinky and Fozzie.

This plan, and it's a damned good one, is basically the braintrust of Pinky and Fozzie. Hans certainly had nothing to do with it.

Remember all of this if Hans decides to run for CSM8.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#592 - 2012-11-08 23:12:14 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
I'm not sure I like the the Siseide to Eszur link so much, it makes Auga/Kourmonen that bit closer for those living there (it is already fairly popular). I do agree with the need to reduce the power of camping Hofjaldgund though and I'm struggling to suggest a better option atm other than maybe Gebuladi. I may be overly hung up on Eszur as I live there atm. *shrug*.
My suggestion was a Dal -> Gebuladi link, thus Hof and Esz can be bypassed altogether, and it's a link straight into that cul-de-sac.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#593 - 2012-11-09 01:11:19 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
My suggestion was a Dal -> Gebuladi link, thus Hof and Esz can be bypassed altogether, and it's a link straight into that cul-de-sac.


That would just have turned Dal into what Eszur will become with Fozzies plan.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#594 - 2012-11-09 01:13:38 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
My suggestion was a Dal -> Gebuladi link, thus Hof and Esz can be bypassed altogether, and it's a link straight into that cul-de-sac.


That would just have turned Dal into what Eszur will become with Fozzies plan.

Except Dal has a crapload of gates in and out, so it can never really be a chokepoint.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#595 - 2012-11-09 03:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Andiedeath
Here's my take. For those that care. :P

Overall it will make for a great great change. It will add to the excitment of the recent changes which has already given us much more pew (and no not just Cynthia and his/her alts... lol).

Although one thing people dont seem to have noticed... Sis to Ezsur doesnt make sense. One is only a few jumps from the other so it seems a waste of a perfectly good regional gate...

I would propose that CCP make the 3rd link Sosala to Ezsur (or Frer) instead. This would most certainly liven up the Essin Constellation as I very much doubt the planned link will make any difference. It will make it more difficult to defend Essin by having 2 major pipes with major Amarr populations within 2-3 jumps of Eszur.

Edit: lol tipos (meaning the current Sis to Eszur pipe and a newly introduced Kam to Essin constellation pipe)

Director

Sefem Velox

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Dar Saleem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#596 - 2012-11-09 04:01:03 UTC
Hans while you are here.

How about getting the lazy chairman to actually read and answer their own "ask me anything thread"

Seems to me the CSM has gone on strike
Debir Achen
Makiriemi Holdings
#597 - 2012-11-09 06:09:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Our plan for the moment is to add three new jump gates to the warzone:

  • Kurniainen (Bleak Lands) to Isbrabata (Metropolis)
  • Siseide (Heimatar) to Eszur (Metropolis)
  • Gulmorogod (Heimatar) to Egmar (Metropolis)
(Note: my comments come as someone who occasionally wanders around Matar low-sec, not as a FW pilot.)
One concern: it feels a bit like these links are based on the dotlan flattening of the geography.

Isbrata - Kurnianen: major new link

Siseide - Ezur: feels like just a second way into Ezsur from Auga / Vard / Ammamake. Have you considered something slightly less parallel like Ontorn or Sirekur? Also Lantorn vs Siseide puts the link one jump closer to Egghelende - don't know whether this is a good / bad / neutral thing.

Gulmogorod - Egmar turns them both into junction systems. Egmar is already on a major path. What would be the effect if the link went from Lulm or into Lasleinur or Orfstold? Or are you trying to avoid upgrading too many backwater systems into thoroughfares?

Aren't Caldari supposed to have a large signature?
Cynthia Nezmor
Nezmor's Golden Griffins
#598 - 2012-11-09 09:31:45 UTC
Kryten2X4B523P wrote:
Quote:
We spent some time discussing the options with players from both factions a few months ago


Who exactly? There are two FW alliances based out of Eszur and neither were consulted. Sounds like the Amarr carebear whine commitee has been in action ...

Put 20 gates in the system we really couldnt give a damn - carebears will still be popped - but don't continue with the usual mendacity by pretending you've done it with a quorum of opinion.

http://i43.tinypic.com/25unvh3.jpg


Best carebearpvper tears ever.
Wu1f
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#599 - 2012-11-09 10:23:14 UTC
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:
Kryten2X4B523P wrote:
Quote:
We spent some time discussing the options with players from both factions a few months ago


Who exactly? There are two FW alliances based out of Eszur and neither were consulted. Sounds like the Amarr carebear whine commitee has been in action ...

Put 20 gates in the system we really couldnt give a damn - carebears will still be popped - but don't continue with the usual mendacity by pretending you've done it with a quorum of opinion.

http://i43.tinypic.com/25unvh3.jpg


Best carebearpvper tears ever.


Isnt that a bit rich coming from you? he who sends mails full of tears as soon as you loose a ship...

Back to the point though, Im inclined to agree with a few things people have said hof is a massive choke point and we take advantage of that as best we can but metro for the most part seems dead apart from mission runners and untill recently a merlin with no guns.
will these new gates actually change that or is it just another thing to add to the game and achieve nothing while so much else is broken? Ugh
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#600 - 2012-11-09 13:14:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. I've got another FW update to our plan.

I want to turn Metro from a swamp full of bucktoothed farmer alts who make plex sex with their cousins and their cousin's bird dawgs, into a viable pew pew zone where fleets can circle around and make bad things happen in your pooper chutes!


Awesome!

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~