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Up and down in space

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Joatmo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-11-07 22:06:54 UTC
Why are all the ships and objects oriented in the same upright way? There is no up and down in space! I don't know if other people notice this, but it's in the back of my head always. If you have ever read Enders game then you know what I am talking about.

Not the biggest deal but in my opinion immersion would be much better if this were to be changed. What do yall think?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2012-11-07 22:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
EVE is really a submarine game.

The physics are simplified to improve gameplay.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-11-07 22:14:00 UTC
As was already mentioned. This is not a space simulator its a submarine simulator and there is definately an up and down
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-11-07 22:29:25 UTC
We all fly yellow submarines!

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#5 - 2012-11-07 22:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Roll Sizzle Beef
It's a lot less disorienting when everyone shares the same up/down. Yet it really isn't that big of a deal as its not a simulator. And as space ships don't need to roll into a turn, its all just for show but I think it would look weird with free roll enabled. Everyone aligning in a fleet all at a different angle along the longitudinal axis. Sounds rather messy looking.

Unless an align and warp will reset you to the common universal plane. Might be interesting.
Gussarde en Welle
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-11-07 22:40:59 UTC
I agree with the OP. Turn orientation off. Free rolling for everything. Also turn hydrodynamics off. Zero g newtonian physics only.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#7 - 2012-11-07 22:42:13 UTC
The day I hear and FC say "The enemy gate is down" I will squee.

The Drake is a Lie
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#8 - 2012-11-07 22:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
It's a lot less disorienting when everyone shares the same up/down. Yet it really isn't that big of a deal as its not a simulator. And as space ships don't need to roll into a turn, its all just for show but I think it would look weird with free roll enabled. Everyone aligning in a fleet all at a different angle along the longitudinal axis. Sounds rather messy looking.

Unless an align and warp will reset you to the common universal plane. Might be interesting.

True, but I don't think that it's much of a stretch to assume that some sort of basic navigational subroutine that all ships use could be in effect.
It would be much easier to dock or otherwise coordinate with other ships and/or stations if they used the universally present plane of a solar system to determine an artificial up and down for all space borne traffic in the area.

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Stegas Tyrano
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-07 22:48:21 UTC
It definitely has less of a 'Spacey' feel because of it. Maybe to rectify this CCP can make more missions vertically orientated.

Herping your derp since 19Potato - [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2403364][Proposal] - Ingame Visual Adverts[/url]
Jet Burns
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#10 - 2012-11-07 23:05:21 UTC
It's the future dude, get over it.

If you have a complex system of navigation arrays, gates, stations then you have a "galactic up" where your mini-autopilot would use the thrusters of the ship to align to an up, but only when it is at rest. If you travel up, or down you will continue to do so until you "stop ship", then it orients by the auto-up-device. We can actually do that with 2007 space computer technology today.

Also it makes it easier to raise the periscope!
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#11 - 2012-11-07 23:06:24 UTC
Another 'Eve doesnt match RL stuff" thread # IVELOSTCOUNT

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#12 - 2012-11-08 02:22:34 UTC
Joatmo wrote:
Why are all the ships and objects oriented in the same upright way? There is no up and down in space! I don't know if other people notice this, but it's in the back of my head always. If you have ever read Enders game then you know what I am talking about.

Not the biggest deal but in my opinion immersion would be much better if this were to be changed. What do yall think?



Your ship's autopilot detects the plane of the system upon entering, it then keeps your ship properly oriented........Cool


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#13 - 2012-11-08 02:32:12 UTC
Joatmo wrote:
Why are all the ships and objects oriented in the same upright way?

On the technical side, ships are no more than points in space, coupled with velocity vectors. In other words, they know where they are, in what direction they're moving, and at what speed. They actually know nothing about what direction they're facing.

Your client takes that data over time and tries to model the ship's movement based on how the position and velocity shifts over time. Unfortunately, it cannot glean the roll rotation of the ship, and there is no way to make your ship "do a barrel roll" -- since there is no 'value' to change to accomplish that.

So far as the vertical rotation limitation to 180 degrees, that is just a limit imposed for somewhat sane control over what you view in space. It can be incredibly disorienting to look at your ship through a camera that is doing vertical loops. Vertiginous, too. Eugh.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#14 - 2012-11-08 02:55:21 UTC
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:
Joatmo wrote:
Why are all the ships and objects oriented in the same upright way?

On the technical side, ships are no more than points in space, coupled with velocity vectors. In other words, they know where they are, in what direction they're moving, and at what speed. They actually know nothing about what direction they're facing.

Your client takes that data over time and tries to model the ship's movement based on how the position and velocity shifts over time. Unfortunately, it cannot glean the roll rotation of the ship, and there is no way to make your ship "do a barrel roll" -- since there is no 'value' to change to accomplish that.

So far as the vertical rotation limitation to 180 degrees, that is just a limit imposed for somewhat sane control over what you view in space. It can be incredibly disorienting to look at your ship through a camera that is doing vertical loops. Vertiginous, too. Eugh.

Soo... wizards do it?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-11-08 03:33:24 UTC
Because in space, orientation IS important, like, lets say your in a fleet, and for whatever reason your FC needs to know where the frak you are, and you say "im below you", well turns out, your only below him on YOUR screen, because hes upside down.

basically situations where you are both above eachother, and thinsg like that, you need an X-Y axis defined for orientation of what is down/up.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#16 - 2012-11-08 03:36:45 UTC
Of course space has an up and down.

You ever seen star trek? Ever wondered why when the romulan bird of prey decloaks in front of the enterprise it's always the same way up? Or you never just see them fly past klingon ships flying upside down? Think about it.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Joatmo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-11-08 03:54:46 UTC
okay so what if cameras remained 'upright' but the ships rotated independently? would the wizards be okay with that? lol
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#18 - 2012-11-08 05:04:15 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
The day I hear and FC say "The enemy gate is down" I will squee.

"Align to the gate."

"If you warped to the gate, instead of just aligning, you're dead."

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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-11-08 05:54:02 UTC
Mr. Tau... make turns for 20 knots and set dive planes for 15 degrees downbubble

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Mr Pragmatic
#20 - 2012-11-08 07:41:05 UTC
Eve space is thicker.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
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