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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

First post First post
Author
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#361 - 2012-11-06 22:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Varesk wrote:

not really solo if you use a boosting alt.

It's not about definitions, but rather just about the fact how CCP can easily make gang-boosters hardly available for small-scale PvPers while keeping them easily accessible and usable for larger groups, which is what surely happens if they leave current link mechanics (a ship boosts N others for the same effect as just one) as is and just nerf link range.

That is the point, not how you treat those who prefer to multibox.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#362 - 2012-11-06 22:31:12 UTC
Skill requirements are only to START training the skill, not to keep it.

This means that you can still keep flying a carrier even if you lost battleship 5 since you still have the carrier skill.

The Drake is a Lie

Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#363 - 2012-11-06 22:34:51 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Varesk wrote:

not really solo if you use a boosting alt.

It's not about definitions, but rather just about the fact how CCP can easily make gang-boosters hardly available for small-scale PvPers while keeping them easily accessible and usable for larger groups, which is what surely happens if they leave current link mechanics (a ship boosts N others for the same effect as just one) as is and just nerf link range.

That is the point, not how you treat those who prefer to multibox.


If you're gonna multi box and still want to maintain bonuses after this proposed (i hope it happens) change, have both of your characters in command ships or T3. Or hell... put both pilots in drakes/canes/whatever and have one do a little bit of boosting. Add that DPS to the fight!

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#364 - 2012-11-06 22:35:11 UTC
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#365 - 2012-11-06 22:38:45 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?



Hopefully not, the barrier to entry in EVE is big enough without forcing newer players to train more skills.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#366 - 2012-11-06 22:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sizeof Void wrote:
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?

According to the original blog, no. The racial skills give us the basic T1 hulls; the T2 skills give us special options for the hulls we already have.

It's like two axes: on the x-axis, we have a row of racial skills that gives us hulls; on the y-axis, we have a row of “role” skills such as “logistics” and “recon” that give us specialisations for the hulls.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#367 - 2012-11-06 22:40:09 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?


doubt it especially as it already takes training a racial skill to lv5

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#368 - 2012-11-06 22:40:28 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?



That sounds terrible but your probably correct when they go through T2 rebalance this will happen.
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#369 - 2012-11-06 22:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Moraguth
Sizeof Void wrote:
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?


That hasn't been asked or even hinted at to my knowledge. Even back in march when they first told us about the proposed change for destroyers/bc skills, they never said anything about that.
I think it's a safe bet that the T2 skills won't change. And if they do, it'll be a very long time.

EDIT: I think this is the most answered question I've seen in the tread. Good Job Void!

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#370 - 2012-11-06 22:49:49 UTC
Moraguth wrote:
I think this is the most answered question I've seen in the tread. Good Job Void!

It's called fear :D
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#371 - 2012-11-06 23:06:37 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
Moraguth wrote:
I think this is the most answered question I've seen in the tread. Good Job Void!

It's called fear :D

No, actually, it is called "long term planning". :)

If CCP is considering such a change, even just as a possibility, then it might be a good idea to spend some SP time next year leveling up the T2 ship skills to 5. They are all rank 4-10, and require 2-4 weeks each to get to level 5.

Also, they are Wil/Per skills, not Per/Wil or Int/Mem, so a remapping will also need to be scheduled, for optimal training.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#372 - 2012-11-06 23:15:43 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Perhaps this has been asked and answered already (in which case, I apologize to everyone):

Looking even further in the future, is it likely - or even just possible - that T2 ships will be given the same racial skill treatment? Ie. are we going to have to train Gallente Assault Ships, Minmatar Recon Ships, Caldari Logistics, Amarr Marauder, etc.?


Nope

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Tarra Nobilii
Doomheim
#373 - 2012-11-06 23:17:54 UTC
Prophecy: expected to be changed to a drone boat. This is a role revamp that will radically modify its slot and fitting layout. It will most likely have less bandwidth but more drone bay than the Myrmidon.

On top of being sacrilegious, this seems a daft idea; 1) armor drone boats cannot take advantage of new mods for lows along with their tank, 2) there is already and armor drone boat (myrmidon), 3) Amarr do not need drones, we shoot things with lasers. I understand the need for balance...but this is not balance to me. I would recommend making a Caldari variant ship for drones (as their drone bays are already poor on virtually all of their ships). For Amarr, we have the Arbitrator and the Armageddon (with a decent drone bay). Caldari have nothing for drones...and even from a storyline perspective, it would make sense for them to copy some tech. Even if the bonus was not to damage but to the effects of combat utility drones, that would be useful; the new web drones are limited at present...imagine where Caldari drone boats would web down a target for missile users and blasters to hit. This makes sense to me. If you want to make the Prophecy have a place so people fly them...then give them some flexibility for shield tanking (more mid distributions with less tank)...or have some kind of webbing bonus with conventional mods...or some kind of ewar ship for tracking disruption to counter Minmatar... All of those present viable ideas that would fit in with the Amarr-Minmatar combat and make the ship suck less, with a reason to fly it over the Harbinger.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#374 - 2012-11-06 23:18:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Soon Shin
Looks like we'll have to wait and see the numbers and descriptions to see if its good.

Field Command ships as a whole need to be looked at, they need to be a good deal better than their tech 1 variants.

All the Field Commands should be brought to the level of atleast the Sleipnir. The Sleipnir is the level that all field commands should strive for. Not just simply a bit better than Tech 1 or even worse in some cases (I'm looking at you Nighthawk)

If you want Command ships to be either gank/tank or boost/tank you're gonna to have to give them role bonuses in general rather than swap half and half.

An example of how I should see it changed to make it good for Both being a Fleet and/or Field CS:

Absolution:

BC LEVEL: 5% laser damage and -10% capacitor usage(please CCP swap this with something better)

CS LEVEL: 5% armor resist and 5% laser rate of fire

Role Bonus: -99% CPU usage of warfare links. 15% bonus to Armor and Skirmish Warfare links. +25% armor hitpoints.



Also something needs to be done about Information warfare links. I would take Armor, Shield, and Skirmish any time, any where over Information warfare.

Its bonuses are very niche and it bonus is not enough to be worth fielding most of the time where there are other things to be boosted.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#375 - 2012-11-06 23:21:25 UTC
I am so glad i am skilling Command Ships 5.

Just think. Vulture with Siege Mindlink, Sensor Integrity link, Shield Resist link, running with a bunch of Thundercat Tengus. You'll have a sensor strength on the Tengus of around 60, and even more insane EHP.

As for the "ow ow my OGB alt!" crowd talking about their ability to "small gang/solo PVP being nutpunched" because OGBs in massively over-linked Tengus sitting at POSs allow them to "even the odds:...no. Sorry, no excuses.

This doesn't allow you to even the odds, level the playing field or other aphorism. It allows you, via deus ex machina, to gain the abilities of a Godlike being for your ship, with absolutely no risk. This then allows you to use your piloting skills (such as they are or are not) to spearate gangs with speed which is OTT for the ship you are fielding, tank gangs which you shouldn't be able to tank except for your OTT boosting, etc.

OGB alts sitting in POSs, particularly in FW, are stupid. Why? it's not just about one guy "soloing" with two T3 OGB alts in a POS (I'm looking at you RTSAvalanche) but if the fleet is adverted and set up with several booster alts and free move, you can set one up in several systems and as you go from system to system "soloing" you gain bonuses in every system you have an alt circling a POS in. This allows innumerable toons to move under the umbrella of a OGB alt the moment they hit system.

Does this "level the field" or allow you to be extra-skillful and hold the torch for solo or small gang roaming PVP? No. If you were skillful or wealthy enough, you should be skillful enough to fly a CS active on your seond screen vs just minimise it and leave it at a POS (taking no skill), and wealthy enough to be able to cop a 350M lossmail.

Under these changes, you can have your OGB Tengu, it will just suck fat nadgers. Gargle them, in fact. And the number of times I've been inconvenienced by ridiculously fast, un-ECMable ubertanky ships makes me chortle with glee thinking about how much ISK you'll have wasted. Bring it on.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#376 - 2012-11-06 23:21:45 UTC
Tarra Nobilii wrote:
Prophecy: expected to be changed to a drone boat. This is a role revamp that will radically modify its slot and fitting layout. It will most likely have less bandwidth but more drone bay than the Myrmidon.

On top of being sacrilegious, this seems a daft idea; 1) armor drone boats cannot take advantage of new mods for lows along with their tank, 2) there is already and armor drone boat (myrmidon), 3) Amarr do not need drones, we shoot things with lasers. I understand the need for balance...but this is not balance to me.


This was really the only other beef I had with what was in the dev blog. Making the Prophecy a drone boat just doesn't make all that much sense to me. A T1 missile boat for the Amarr would be more reasonable imo, as it would be a good lead in to the Khanid ship line.
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#377 - 2012-11-06 23:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Name Family Name
What about SP bloat?

E.g. If I only used to fly Sleipnirs and thus have BC and CS V, but have Amarr Cruiser at IV to fly an Abaddon, will I receive Amarr BC and CS V (as well as all the other races in two of my charcters) as well although I never intended to fly them?

So to put it simple: Will my clones be bloated with SP and cost 20 mill more per pop for no benefit, will the BC (and CS) total Sp requirement be divided by 4, will we be given the chance of opting out of skills we don't want and redistribute them or will you finally get around to lower the weird scaling of clone costs?
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#378 - 2012-11-06 23:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Need clarification - how much time left till these battleship-destroyers skill requirement changes will be in effect - on December, 4 with Retribution or later?

P. S. Really, guys, these "soon" blogs went out of control lacking precise dates and clear statements like "we will (or we won't) change skills on November, 4" instead of "we will change them *after* T1 battleships overhaul which coming November, 4".

EDIT: if I have partial skill (BC 4.5) will it translate into Caldari Battlecruisers 4.5 or plain Caldari BC 4 ?

EDIT 2: found it: > Want to make this clear to everyone, the stuff in this blog is not coming on the 4th with Retribution. This blog covers some of what we are going to be working on in the beginning of next year.
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#379 - 2012-11-06 23:33:07 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Need clarification - how much time left till these battleship-destroyers skill requirement changes will be in effect - on December, 4 with Retribution or later?

P. S. Really, guys, these "soon" blogs went out of control lacking precise dates and clear statements like "we will (or we won't) change skills on November, 4" instead of "we will change them *after* T1 battleships overhaul which coming November, 4".


read the thread.

since you won't, I'll just give an ambiguous hint (i'm not very nice).

No.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Lipbite
Express Hauler
#380 - 2012-11-06 23:47:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
Moraguth wrote:
No.


If thread wasn't full of empty messages such as yours it could be much more readable and informative. But even with hidden messages (hint: triangle near avatar pix open options menu to hide messages from certain shiptoasters forever) thread is barely readable. Please, stop posting nonsense - just 26 days left till Dec 4 which is barely enough to train damn Battlecruisers V (not to mention Destroyers and racial skills frigate / cruisers skills I've planned for next year).

EDIT: found it: > Want to make this clear to everyone, the stuff in this blog is not coming on the 4th with Retribution. This blog covers some of what we are going to be working on in the beginning of next year.