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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

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stoicfaux
#341 - 2012-11-06 21:55:09 UTC
On a somewhat related note, when is the "Will Jump Freighters require Freighter V?" question going to be answered? (Requiring Freighter V is necessary to stick to the paradigm of Tech 2 requiring V in the base ship skill.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
bongpacks
Rules of Acquisition
#342 - 2012-11-06 22:00:15 UTC
Leave the Typhoon alone!!!

I literally JUST trained large T2 autocannons for my typhoon because frankly the torp phoon is worthless at killing anything smaller than a battleship unless you have 4-5 guys in your fleet with target painters. If you make it a missile only platform you'll be seriously hampering it's ability to solo smaller ships or apply anywhere near it's "paper" DPS. I've flown the typhoon for close to two years now and theres just no situation in which the torp phoon is better than the AC phoon. If the phoon is made missile only I'll have no reason whatsoever to use large T2 autocannons as theres no other battleship that comes close to the typhoons capabilities as a neut and DPS platform that uses projectiles. If anything I'd say you should make the typhoon a turret only ship since as some have mentioned before to be really effective in this ship you need to have armor tanking, drone, missile and turret skills; I would venture to guess that most minmatar pilots have most of their SP in gunnery and not missile launcher op making it easier to be effective in a phoon for new minnie pilots. Please don't kill the typhoon, it's one of my favorite ships and it's so versatile it really would be a shame to condemn it to a less effective weapons system with comparible range. I mean honestly, how many armor gangs have you flown in that had enough target painters fitted to make a torp ship worth flying in it?

SAVE THE TYPHOON!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#343 - 2012-11-06 22:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Varesk wrote:
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
Tech 3 treatment will focus on making them more generalized. Their Warfare Link bonuses will be reduced from 5% to 2% effectiveness; however they will have bonuses to three racial Warfare Link fields while being able to fit three Warfare Link modules simultaneously.

As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.


nice try to kill already dead solo pvp

:CCP: as always.



people using offgrid 5% t3 bonuses in dualbox can deal with gangs (because it is 90% of solo fights is against gangs)

people without bonuses can go die or return to boring cynabals, dualbox logistics or falcons. thats very nice of you.

please think of it as bittervet butthurt.


not really solo if you use a boosting alt.




Indeed.

People who actually SOLO will only have to deal with the possibiliity of the people they are hunting having a 2% or 3% booster on thier side, instead of a 5% booster. If he has a booster on HIS side, he's not flying solo.

Having a 2% boost is the equivalent of having everyone in your fleet be roughly level 6 (if already at level 5) with the pertinent skills. This is a significant advantage, and a 3% boost even more so. A 5% boost is the equivalent of having level 7.5 skills, which I can easily see being viewed as overpowered.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#344 - 2012-11-06 22:02:47 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
On a somewhat related note, when is the "Will Jump Freighters require Freighter V?" question going to be answered? (Requiring Freighter V is necessary to stick to the paradigm of Tech 2 requiring V in the base ship skill.)
…and it's really going to strain that “if you could fly it before” policy, since that would require raising a rank 10 skill from IV to V for many who can currently fly JFs but who never bothered with that last Freighter level.

That's over 2M SP per JF — in my case, I'd suddenly get 8.5M additional SP (which will break my SP budget P).
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#345 - 2012-11-06 22:03:50 UTC
bongpacks wrote:
Leave the Typhoon alone!!!

I literally JUST trained large T2 autocannons for my typhoon because frankly the torp phoon is worthless at killing anything smaller than a battleship unless you have 4-5 guys in your fleet with target painters. If you make it a missile only platform you'll be seriously hampering it's ability to solo smaller ships or apply anywhere near it's "paper" DPS. I've flown the typhoon for close to two years now and theres just no situation in which the torp phoon is better than the AC phoon. If the phoon is made missile only I'll have no reason whatsoever to use large T2 autocannons as theres no other battleship that comes close to the typhoons capabilities as a neut and DPS platform that uses projectiles. If anything I'd say you should make the typhoon a turret only ship since as some have mentioned before to be really effective in this ship you need to have armor tanking, drone, missile and turret skills; I would venture to guess that most minmatar pilots have most of their SP in gunnery and not missile launcher op making it easier to be effective in a phoon for new minnie pilots. Please don't kill the typhoon, it's one of my favorite ships and it's so versatile it really would be a shame to condemn it to a less effective weapons system with comparible range. I mean honestly, how many armor gangs have you flown in that had enough target painters fitted to make a torp ship worth flying in it?

SAVE THE TYPHOON!


Or use a armour tempest its actually designed for guns ......

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Danny Centauri
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#346 - 2012-11-06 22:07:26 UTC
Varesk wrote:
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
Tech 3 treatment will focus on making them more generalized. Their Warfare Link bonuses will be reduced from 5% to 2% effectiveness; however they will have bonuses to three racial Warfare Link fields while being able to fit three Warfare Link modules simultaneously.

As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.


nice try to kill already dead solo pvp

:CCP: as always.



people using offgrid 5% t3 bonuses in dualbox can deal with gangs (because it is 90% of solo fights is against gangs)

people without bonuses can go die or return to boring cynabals, dualbox logistics or falcons. thats very nice of you.

please think of it as bittervet butthurt.


not really solo if you use a boosting alt.




He meant that special sort of solo like the guys with falcon alts who are solo Evil... naturally.

EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#347 - 2012-11-06 22:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?

edit: how much time do we have till this destryers-battlecruisers patch?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#348 - 2012-11-06 22:14:37 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?

edit: how much time do we have till this destryers-battlecruisers patch?


like seriously can't people read?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
bongpacks
Rules of Acquisition
#349 - 2012-11-06 22:15:28 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
bongpacks wrote:
Leave the Typhoon alone!!!

I literally JUST trained large T2 autocannons for my typhoon because frankly the torp phoon is worthless at killing anything smaller than a battleship unless you have 4-5 guys in your fleet with target painters. If you make it a missile only platform you'll be seriously hampering it's ability to solo smaller ships or apply anywhere near it's "paper" DPS. I've flown the typhoon for close to two years now and theres just no situation in which the torp phoon is better than the AC phoon. If the phoon is made missile only I'll have no reason whatsoever to use large T2 autocannons as theres no other battleship that comes close to the typhoons capabilities as a neut and DPS platform that uses projectiles. If anything I'd say you should make the typhoon a turret only ship since as some have mentioned before to be really effective in this ship you need to have armor tanking, drone, missile and turret skills; I would venture to guess that most minmatar pilots have most of their SP in gunnery and not missile launcher op making it easier to be effective in a phoon for new minnie pilots. Please don't kill the typhoon, it's one of my favorite ships and it's so versatile it really would be a shame to condemn it to a less effective weapons system with comparible range. I mean honestly, how many armor gangs have you flown in that had enough target painters fitted to make a torp ship worth flying in it?

SAVE THE TYPHOON!


Or use a armour tempest its actually designed for guns ......


While it's a decent alternative I still prefer having two heavy and one medium neut vs just two heavies. You can pretty much drain most ships on the first cycle then leave only the medium on target to keep them dry while you use the heavies on your secondary or tertiary targets. Plus the phoon just looks freakin awesome, it's like a death dealing narwhal...what's not to love about that?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#350 - 2012-11-06 22:16:18 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?
Nope. You'll have the same skills you have now.

If you can't fly destroyers now, you're not getting the skill (nor will you need it).
Ogopogo Mu
O C C U P Y
#351 - 2012-11-06 22:16:49 UTC
Holy One wrote:
Denegrah Togasa wrote:
I now understand how you bitter vets got so bitter if this is the kind of thing they do. Cause this skill change thing is just another rich get richer and poor stay poorer.


I completely fail to see how adding more pointless skills to the game is going to attract more players. I would have much preferred it had they consolidated all the racial skills in to one generic cruiser and frigate tbh. If the idea is to attract more new players, whats the point of this change? Since all us nerds with a billion sp will just get more level 5 skills for nowt.


I think if CCP had a time machine they would do something like this. The way that ship specialization skills work is arguably backwards. It makes way more sense to have generic baseline skills for ship classes, and race-specific skills for each specialty subclass (interceptor, stealth bomber, command, hac, etc.) Maybe even BCs. You would get mass diversification into racial ships for new players who could then check out other racial ship flavors before spending points on specializing in weapon and ship systems for the ones they like.

What we've done recently, which is one reason for the over-dominance of the BC class, is to rush to **** Cruiser III and jump straight to BCs. A few more days of weapons crosstraining and now you can finally understand what players of other races were bragging/bitching about. However, to then respecialize in those ships you had to go back to frigate school. (Okay, maybe you could do it with destroyers, but when I was new destroyers were terrible for anything but salvage and arty thrasher ganks.)

Unfortunately with the new system of breaking out destroyers and BCs, new players have a way longer row to hoe to figure out the style of play they enjoy.

Oh, and to address the "who cares we get lots of SP" argument, no. We only get inflated clone costs.
Nul'tessa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2012-11-06 22:17:04 UTC
So now that pilots will need to at least train through Destroyers to get to Cruisers, and Battlecruisers to get to Battleships will there be more ships of the Destroyer and Battlecruiser types added (beyond the new destroyers on Dec 4)? And I mean sooner than just "soon TM". Along with more T2 variants of those also?

As of Dec 4 Destroyers will only have 2 hulls per race, and BC will have 3 (which is the same as Battleships I suppose...)

Although nobody is forced to fly the ships they are currently training through to get to the next bigger hulls, having more options would be nice while one is "grinding" those SP, especially if those options were in line with the "roles" you have for Frigates and Cruisers now. (support, disrupt, combat, attack, explore).
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#353 - 2012-11-06 22:17:22 UTC
bongpacks wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
bongpacks wrote:
Leave the Typhoon alone!!!

I literally JUST trained large T2 autocannons for my typhoon because frankly the torp phoon is worthless at killing anything smaller than a battleship unless you have 4-5 guys in your fleet with target painters. If you make it a missile only platform you'll be seriously hampering it's ability to solo smaller ships or apply anywhere near it's "paper" DPS. I've flown the typhoon for close to two years now and theres just no situation in which the torp phoon is better than the AC phoon. If the phoon is made missile only I'll have no reason whatsoever to use large T2 autocannons as theres no other battleship that comes close to the typhoons capabilities as a neut and DPS platform that uses projectiles. If anything I'd say you should make the typhoon a turret only ship since as some have mentioned before to be really effective in this ship you need to have armor tanking, drone, missile and turret skills; I would venture to guess that most minmatar pilots have most of their SP in gunnery and not missile launcher op making it easier to be effective in a phoon for new minnie pilots. Please don't kill the typhoon, it's one of my favorite ships and it's so versatile it really would be a shame to condemn it to a less effective weapons system with comparible range. I mean honestly, how many armor gangs have you flown in that had enough target painters fitted to make a torp ship worth flying in it?

SAVE THE TYPHOON!


Or use a armour tempest its actually designed for guns ......


While it's a decent alternative I still prefer having two heavy and one medium neut vs just two heavies. You can pretty much drain most ships on the first cycle then leave only the medium on target to keep them dry while you use the heavies on your secondary or tertiary targets. Plus the phoon just looks freakin awesome, it's like a death dealing narwhal...what's not to love about that?


It looks like something that needs flushing down the toilet :P
And you better find a way to use the tempest as they will make the phoon changes for sure

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#354 - 2012-11-06 22:17:22 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?

edit: how much time do we have till this destryers-battlecruisers patch?


You will have no new skills at all

You will remain with neither Caldari BC nor Caldari Destroyer

The Drake is a Lie
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#355 - 2012-11-06 22:18:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?
Nope. You'll have the same skills you have now.

If you can't fly destroyers now, you're not getting the skill (nor will you need it).



Quote from blog:

> Changing skill requirements for Racial Cruisers from Racial Frigates 4 to Racial Destroyers 4

But how am I supposed to have Caldari Cruiser V without Caldari Destriyers 4?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#356 - 2012-11-06 22:21:45 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?
Nope. You'll have the same skills you have now.

If you can't fly destroyers now, you're not getting the skill (nor will you need it).



Quote from blog:

> Changing skill requirements for Racial Cruisers from Racial Frigates 4 to Racial Destroyers 4

But how am I supposed to have Caldari Cruiser V without Caldari Destriyers 4?


dude if you can't read a dev blog properly maybe this isn't the game for you :P

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#357 - 2012-11-06 22:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Lipbite wrote:
Quote from blog:

> Changing skill requirements for Racial Cruisers from Racial Frigates 4 to Racial Destroyers 4

But how am I supposed to have Caldari Cruiser V without Caldari Destriyers 4?
You don't need Destroyers because you already have Cruisers. Destroyer IV is the prerequisite for injecting Cruisers and maybe training it to I (but I'm actually suspecting that the skill check is on the injection, not the training). Beyond that, it has done its part for all things cruiser-sized and above.

You only ever need the “outmost” layer of skills to fry or train anything — the skills listed as primary, secondary, teritiary etc. The prerequisites for those skills are of absolutely no relevance once you get the skills they unlock.

Right now, if you have Cruiser V and Frigate V and fly around in HACs (which require Cruiser V), you could be podded to hell and back and lose every last SP in your Frigate skill and still be able to fly those HACs because the frigate skill is not a prereq for HACs — it's a prereq for a prereq (viz. Cruisers). Ok, granted, the way SP loss works, you can't actually lose all SP in frigates without also losing that Cruiser V, but still… in theory it works.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#358 - 2012-11-06 22:25:08 UTC
Omnomnom!

This is a delicious post!

- Eos and Myrm, 5 heavy drones? Zomg.
- Prophecy not sucking gigantic bollocks? Zomg
- Nanomega? Zomg.
- Siege/Skirmish boosting Minnie CS's? Zomg
- HAMnations? Zomg.
- Armour/Siege Amarr CS? Zomg
- Infolinks being technically buffed by allowing Caladri CS's to get bonuses to fitting them? Zomg.
- oceans of tears from OGB alts and/or their mains, threatening to quit EVE because they get a 2% Warfare Link bonus and can't sit in a POS? Zomg, om nom nom nom! *happyfrotting*

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#359 - 2012-11-06 22:25:21 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Lipbite wrote:
I have Caldari Cruiser V, BC 0 and Destroyers 0. I'll have Caldari Destroyers 4 and Caldari BC 0 after patch - correct?
Nope. You'll have the same skills you have now.

If you can't fly destroyers now, you're not getting the skill (nor will you need it).



Quote from blog:

> Changing skill requirements for Racial Cruisers from Racial Frigates 4 to Racial Destroyers 4

But how am I supposed to have Caldari Cruiser V without Caldari Destriyers 4?



The same way you can have BC 5 now and no cruiser skills?
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#360 - 2012-11-06 22:26:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
You don't need Destroyers because you already have Cruisers.


Thanks!