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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

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Wrathful Hawk
Clipped Wingz
Safety.
#301 - 2012-11-06 20:17:54 UTC
Inb4 people without an ability to think relatively:
Just to be clear, that's 100% of maximum potential bonus against 66% of maximum bonus, i'm not trying to say you'll get 100% bonus to EHP / Velocity etc.

Wrathful Hawk wrote:
As usual there's STILL going to be NO point to fly command ships over Tech 3 Cruisers.

Lets see, do i want to have a fleet booster that's going to buff as one of the following options

Armor & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range
Siege & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range
Siege & Info - EHP & EW bonus
Armor & Info - EHP & EW Bonus

OR as one of THESE following

Armor & Skirmish & Info - EHP & Point Range & EW Bonus
Siege & Info & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range & EW Bonus
Armor & Info & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range & EW Bonus
Siege & Skirmish & Armor - EHP & Point Range & EHP

Sure the boosts are a third lower than the command ships, but when the decision comes down to one fleet booster that gives me 66% of bonuses over three sets of Links, or two of 100%, I'm going to pick the one that offers more variation EVERY time.
I'm losing 2% overall bonus sure but when you actually think about it, which are you going to prefer? The worst of the four is the Loki which offers bonuses to both tank types and point range / speed, but in any fleet, give me a very simple choice of the above and i'll pick proteus/ legion & tengu near enough every time.

The loss of 33% EHP bonus & Skirmish can be easily negated by and improved upon by better EW (especially with TD's becoming the all powerful mod they're about to become.)
and the loss of 33% EHP bonus & Info can easily be negated by an increase to a fleets overall ab/mwd speed or range domination with points.

I'm sorry, but the choices are obvious to anyone with half a brain that doesn't rely solely on one game mechanic to win..
*cough* drake fleet * cough* goons *cough*

/rant.

I know which i'll choose every time.

And just a quick mention, if you're going to get skirmish boosts ON FIELD for armour, are you really going to use a slow lumbering prophecy hull over a tech 3 cruiser with insane speeds? I think not.


xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#302 - 2012-11-06 20:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: xo3e
Quote:
There will be a new skills that will boost your sensor strength and the jamming gets a bit nerfed in Retribution. Thread is in Test server feedback subforum.


problem with ecm is not How often you will be jammed... problem that you WILL be jammed sooner or later and your target WILL escape OR you will be unable to escape because you cant kill that ship fast enough, before rescue rangers

Signature removed. Navigator
Alara IonStorm
#303 - 2012-11-06 20:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
xHxHxAOD wrote:
who snipes with a ferox

People keep focusing on the word Sniper for all things Rail related instead of thinking mid range 50km/ish.

I say leave Sniping to the Naga and make the Moa and Ferox good Dmg Dealers in the 40-50km field with the Ferox being more tank, Naga Range, Dmg and the Moa being more Speed / Agility / Accuracy. Let the Drake keep its resist bonus be the tankyist and let the Ferox do more Dmg under 50Km with a 60k EHP tank.

60k EHP with Blasters and 7 Dmg bonused turrets are good enough, no need for a resist bonus, Opt will give it a true solid duel role.
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#304 - 2012-11-06 20:28:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven
xo3e wrote:
problem with ecm is not How often you will be jammed... problem that you WILL be jammed sooner or later and your target WILL escape OR you will be unable to escape because you cant kill that ship fast enough, before rescue rangers


I heard Badgers don't shoot back.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#305 - 2012-11-06 20:28:43 UTC
You can't fit 9 links to your T3.

For some fleets, I'd happily take the commandships, for example a Damnation with SigTank&Amor Resists&Rapid Repair over any T3 combination.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#306 - 2012-11-06 20:30:07 UTC
100% support the T3 & Command Ship changes.

100%

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#307 - 2012-11-06 20:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
I think the battleships need to be moved around a little:

Attack
Raven a larger caracal: a range ship needs to be mobile
Apoc a larger omen: needs more dps than the op range bonus where you can hit 80km with scorch insane range!!!
tempest a larger stabber: essentially a T1 mach would give it a role rather than its mix of this and that.
Megathron a larger Thorax perhaps with a little less EHP nerf please than the thorax got.

Combat
phoon: as is but with more focus on torps and armour tank. allows missile users an armour tanker option useful in armour fleets
geddon: i was assuming would follow the drone line so they have a droneboat or why extend the line to bc and stop?
abbadon; needs better cap.
Hyperion: needs better armour rep bonus/ armour reps needs a buff also.
domi, Maelstrom, rokh are all fine mostly.

I also feel lasers at all sizes have too good range aswell as missiles i think both need more work especially to rebalance TE/TC.
Also projectiles should use cap again!!!!

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Mr Burns91
Odamirus
#308 - 2012-11-06 20:33:56 UTC
On the subject of Command ships:

I would be a fan of just switching the T3 and Command ship bonus percent. Everyone likes the +5%

So command ships would have 5%/level and t3's would have 3%/level
Conjaq
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#309 - 2012-11-06 20:34:46 UTC
Good changes overall, i can't wait to see how the changes for off grid boosting, and command ships will pan out. I however got one question.


CCP randomly talk about active tanking / passive tanking. - Is there an ETA on when we get more info about this?
If at all there is going to be changes regarding this. id really like to know if CCP think there is a problem with the balance of this, or if they consider it good enough?



I still think it's odd that a cumbersome slow ship(armor tanking) have the shortest ranged ammo in the game(hybrids) .. No complaining ment, just thinking out loud here :)
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#310 - 2012-11-06 20:43:59 UTC
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
Sorry, you are a niche


i am.

and i dont like that ccp thinks, that balancing large fights is worth killing a niche for dedicated power players

give us something in exchange at least. like removing ecm drones or making armor tank adequate in solo pvp

Look, I know how you feel. I prefer smaller scale combat myself. What you have to realize that until mechanics such as line of sight or something equivilant; larger gangs will use whatever boost to small scale combat and amplify it like a mother ******. The only thing a small fleet can do against a larger one, outside of bomber runs, is get in tier 3 alpha tornados and get warp ins and attempt to snipe one dude and gtfo.

Not really a lot of options.
Malaclypse Thorn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#311 - 2012-11-06 20:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Malaclypse Thorn
What i desperately want to know for the battlecruiser/destroyer racial split is this:

What if i have battlecruiser 5 and minmatar cruiser 4? What level, then, will minmatar battlecruiser be?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#312 - 2012-11-06 20:45:30 UTC
Malaclypse Thorn wrote:
What i desperately want to know for the battlecruiser/destroyer racial split is this:

What if i have battlecruiser 5 and minmatar frigate 4? What level, then, will minmatar battlecruiser be?
Zero, unless you also have Minny Cruiser III.
Malaclypse Thorn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#313 - 2012-11-06 20:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Malaclypse Thorn
Tippia wrote:
Malaclypse Thorn wrote:
What i desperately want to know for the battlecruiser/destroyer racial split is this:

What if i have battlecruiser 5 and minmatar frigate 4? What level, then, will minmatar battlecruiser be?
Zero, unless you also have Minny Cruiser III.

yesyes i went back and edited, i put the wrong word there :3

But despite that i do think you know what point i meant to convey, which skill takes higher priority? cruiser or battlecruiser? Frigate or destroyer?
Wu Phat
InsufficientFunds LLC.
#314 - 2012-11-06 20:51:06 UTC
Who do I kiss for coming up with the command ship change. Also please fix the domi and the raven up real good please.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2012-11-06 20:52:44 UTC
Quote:
As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.


Thank you God!

Another question though...since this so called "Tiericide" is being done...does this mean that ALL ships will be able to be insured equally or will current T2 and T3 ships still not provide a credible and worthwhile return for insuring them?

I bring this up because if the insurance options are not balanced for all ships to be equal...you will still have tiers.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#316 - 2012-11-06 20:52:49 UTC
So status quo for battleships doesn't change, and the Caldari 'hybrid tank brawler' line just falters and dies for the battlecruiser class before returning with the Rokh. And then Caldari don't even have an 'attack' battleship, whatever that's supposed to mean, with the Raven likely not being improved very much.

This is easily the most disappointing bunch of the rebalancing efforts, by far, IMO.
Malaclypse Thorn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#317 - 2012-11-06 20:56:42 UTC
On a sidenote i love gallente ships, and looking at the changes planned for the battleships makes me wary that what needs to be done will not be done. Namely the hyperion desperately needs different bonuses. I know its comparable to the maelstrom's bonuses, but with the existance of the ASB, that bonus is actually useful, whereas the armor repair bonus on a battleship is next to pointless. I believe the hyperion should drop the repair bonus and gain an armor amount or resist bonus in its place. Now this puts the maelstrom's bonuses in a strange place making it the only active tanked battleship that exists, but is that so bad? Haven't minmatar ships always had strange bonuses compared to the rest anyway? I just really want to see some level of gallente resurgence, our ships have been so bad for so long, and it makes me sad because i love their playstyle.

Also shouldn't our ships (being the shortest range but some of the highest damage) also be able to move very quickly or at least be highly agile in order to make up for the range of EVERY other ship? Even projectile weapons have a massive edge over gallente guns on account of their huge falloffs. Most gallente ships are brawlers, the talos is the first ship of its size in gallente to actually be ABLE to kite, and thats fun. But the myrm, brutix, thorax...they all brawl and i wish to see them get speed or agility increases, CALL ME CRAZY, but yeah.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2012-11-06 20:56:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ethan Revenant wrote:
Is it just that no one loves the Eos, but one day, its prince will come?

Let me answer your question with one of my favorite old-school pvp videos.

And before anyone asks no we are not bringing back superNOS.


do you have any plans to make nos usefull again? like if you have more cap then the target you get something like 50% of the max nos amount and if you have less cap you get full nos amount?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#319 - 2012-11-06 20:58:30 UTC
wait wait wait....

For smart people who trained these skills when teh changes were first uttered with BC5 and destroyers 5, will they just have every racial destroyer, and racial BC skill at 5?

Or will they get SP that will cover those amounts?

(holy ******* **** I hope we get sp)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#320 - 2012-11-06 21:03:02 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
Grideris wrote:


Also, I hope more Caldari ships moving over to damage bonus for hybrids doesn't start to step on the Gallente's "TONS OF DAMAGE" motif they have going on.


No, I think it's more of moving towards fixing the Caldari's "NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER" motif they have going on their "we only want you to use rails too bad they suck" boats.

Bienator II wrote:
Quote:
Oracle, Naga, Talos and Tornado: are mostly fine, except for the mobility which is a little too high, and signature radius, which could be increased a bit. Apart from this, little needs to change.


oracle has a double gun cap use bonus. This is is a wasted bonus compared to the other three. Cap use bonus should be a role bonus, since its the role of the ship to be able to use that large laser guns. The BC bonus should be something which makes the ship special.

wasting one bonus attribute just to be able to fire the guns is not cool at all.


They typically have addressed gun cap bonuses with something less pointless (see the new maller for example)

Frankly, since one of the reasons for have the heavy cap use mechanic be part of lasers to discourage their use on non-Amarr ships, I have always felt that instead of using a cap use bonus they should instead simply let all Amarr ships have a naturally higher cap recharge rate than other races.

This would facilitate their weapons systems, their frequent use of Nuets, and active armor tanking (yeah I know, they prefer Amarr use buffer armor tanks instead, but I feel the point still stands... let Gallante get huge boosts for repair amount while Amarr has the cap to easily run multiple armor rep setups).

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