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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

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Author
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#281 - 2012-11-06 19:51:05 UTC
Bobo Cindekela wrote:
CCP should get used to the idea of losing alot of alt-subs when they nerf offgrid boosting


just sayin...

this would help plex prices. Two problems solved at once.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#282 - 2012-11-06 19:51:09 UTC
xo3e wrote:
nice try to kill already dead solo pvp

:CCP: as always.



people using offgrid 5% t3 bonuses in dualbox can deal with gangs (because it is 90% of solo fights is against gangs)

people without bonuses can go die or return to boring cynabals, dualbox logistics or falcons. thats very nice of you.

please think of it as bittervet butthurt.


It is not solo pvp if you use a boosting alt. :cripes:

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW

Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#283 - 2012-11-06 19:51:51 UTC
What will you do the Field Command ships. Will you turn them into Fleet Command ships or will you make it so that Fleet and Field Command Classifications are gone and make all the command ships be able to do great dps and have great tank?
Sethimothy
Chicken Manufacturing
#284 - 2012-11-06 19:54:31 UTC
Am I understanding this right, that if you have two separate racial cruisers to V, and you have Destroyers to V, you'll still need to train Destroyers a second time to be able to use that second race's destroyers (as in, you'll only be refunded enough to fully pay for one?) That's what I think it says, and that's unfortunate, but I want to make sure.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#285 - 2012-11-06 19:56:04 UTC
I didn't see any direct mention of it in the blog besides the reasoning about making T2 specialisation faster, but does this plan for next year also/still include the removal of cross-class skill requirements such as having to train Assault Frigates to fly Command Ships?

I noticed a bit of range about it earlier in the thread and was reminded of this old post about how specialisation would become faster, but that won't happen without an adjustment of the prereqs:
Tippia wrote:
The current combined prereq for both [command] ships…

[racial] Cruiser V
     [racial] Frigate IV
Command Ships I
     Battlecruisers V
     Warfare Link Specialist IV
          Leadership V
     Spaceship Command V
Heavy Assault Ships IV
     Assault Ships IV
          Engineering V
          Mechanic V
     Weapon Upgrades V
          Gunnery II
Logistics IV
     Signature Analysis V
     Long Range Targeting V
          Electronics II

…will become…

[racial] Battlecruiser V
     [racial] Cruiser IV
          [racial] Destroyer IV
               [racial] Frigate IV
Command Ships I
     Warfare Link Specialist IV
          Leadership V
     Spaceship Command V
Is still the correct end-state and is it still part of what's going to happen next year, or is that a different third (fourth, fifth…) round of tiercide focused on T2 ships?
xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#286 - 2012-11-06 19:56:41 UTC
Quote:
If your using gang links, you're not solo.


ok lets call it ONE PLAYER PVP if u like.

if youre not using gang links - you are forced to use gay ships like bagabond and etc or to have k/d ratio like 1:1.
cool. HOW VERSATILE


Signature removed. Navigator

Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#287 - 2012-11-06 20:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven
xo3e wrote:
ok lets call it ONE PLAYER PVP if u like.

if youre not using gang links - you are forced to use gay ships like bagabond and etc or to have k/d ratio like 1:1.
cool. HOW VERSATILE


Sorry, you are a niche. Better fix stuff that is broken for MANY groups than keeping it the way it is now for A FEW individuals.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW

Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#288 - 2012-11-06 20:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobo Cindekela
if you make industrial links require ongrid also then warfare links should require Heavy Water Fuel and the same immobility state on any ship they are fitted as the rorqual is stuck in when its core is active, as the rorq boni is not in effect unless you are burning fuel and immobilized

Roll

You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,  this is your final warning.

Danny Centauri
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2012-11-06 20:03:18 UTC
The amusing thing about this is we don't have to worry about commandship changes until what 2014? Summer release for BCs then Winter for BS... thats 2013 covered. Give it until 2016 and everything including faction might be balanced, this team needs more members or the changes are too slow and frankly a joke.

EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players.

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#290 - 2012-11-06 20:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Excellent blog! Well written and many things that myself, as a command and ewar support specialist had been much longing for. In fact, the changing to remove field and fleet is even more exciting. That said, the purpose of comments is to provide suggestions and feedback, so here we go.

1. The command subprocessor - Any thoughts of looking at it and the fittings for ships? It would be nice for us command ship pilots with the mixed bonuses to make more use of that. I fly combat on grid and wouldn't mind the high slot sacrifice to fit one. At the moment, the only ship that really makes use of it I find are the carriers. I understand the power of command links, but should they be changed to on grid, plus the double bonuses to field, I feel the 150 cpu is Too damned high! (insert meme photo here)

It also somewhat limits People learning to command ship, being able to fit a second ganglink can be nice too. Promote lower cost warfare. Main arguement is after initial bonuses, it takes two slots to add one ganglink. Losing a mid in pvp is a bit of a sacrifice. Cost, tank, ewar, etc. If ongrid comes into play, can be worth making the change maybe?

2. The "Tier 1" battleships and the ewar hole. Well, I make the following call. As it stands, you say domi, armageddon, and typhoon are working as intended. I agree. Changing typhoon to a missile platform is a good call. I use missiles on my phoon because watching em launch from the top always makes me think of oldschool sub movies. But in the end, for pure damage, the tempest and maelstrom are more loved and in bs combat, mobility is nice, but killing is more for the damage ships. Gank over tank.

My proposal is as follows:
Armageddon - Remove damage bonus, keep tracking bonus. -1 turret slots, -1 high slots, +1 mid. Keep tracking bonus, give it tracking disruption bonus to range and strength.

Dominix - It is a wonderful sentry/drone and sniping but needs a utility high slot. so +1 highslot -1 midslot. Remove hybrid damage (already has drone damage and a drone boat) to replace with sensor damp bonus.

Typhoon - Well, aside from changes mentioned of removing all turrets: -1 high, +1 launcher, -2 low, +2 med. In place of the turret bonus replace with painter bonus. Webs belong to other ships already.

Scorpion - tough one to fix here. The big problem is all other ewar ships can be effective with just one of the modules. ECM, you need to use 3-4 midslots to do anything. Would be nice to maybe get faster ecm cycles so that you have better chance of lock break, but for shorter duration. Would be nice to have to only fit one or two. That can allow taking one of the midslots to put into a high, and give it an extra highslot so it can fit more launchers. Give it some missile bonus that doesnt compete with the raven.

Topic of raven, maybe it needs one more launcher fitting to it, but that needs to be done with other missile balances etc.

Anyways, end of my two cents.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2012-11-06 20:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: xo3e
Quote:
Sorry, you are a niche


i am.

and i dont like that ccp thinks, that balancing large fights is worth killing a niche for dedicated power players

give us something in exchange at least. like removing ecm drones or making armor tank adequate in solo pvp

Signature removed. Navigator

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#292 - 2012-11-06 20:10:44 UTC
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
If your using gang links, you're not solo.


ok lets call it ONE PLAYER PVP if u like.

if youre not using gang links - you are forced to use gay ships like bagabond and etc or to have k/d ratio like 1:1.
cool. HOW VERSATILE




lol my main char has 11:1 k/d ratio w/ 90% solo kills, never used links.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#293 - 2012-11-06 20:11:41 UTC
Sethimothy wrote:
Am I understanding this right, that if you have two separate racial cruisers to V, and you have Destroyers to V, you'll still need to train Destroyers a second time to be able to use that second race's destroyers (as in, you'll only be refunded enough to fully pay for one?) That's what I think it says, and that's unfortunate, but I want to make sure.


"If you can fly it now, you will be able to fly it in the future"

CCP mantra. Ergo if you can fly all dessies now, the sp you get will permit you for every racial destroyers. So if you have only two racials of frigates, and you have destroyers for both races, you will be able to use both destroyers. Not a LVL 5 refund which you would have to choose.

For myself, the racial dessies and bcs, if they became just a sp refund, it would seriously cut out a major portion of how I have trained my gameplay which is destroyers and battlecruisers. I would lose our on alot and it would take probably 6 months to train back in. That is a big hit for a training centered around a playstyle which would have been trained much differently had the racials always been in place.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2012-11-06 20:15:07 UTC
Quote:
lol my main char has 11:1 k/d ratio w/ 90% solo kills, never used links


lol my main char has 9999999:1 k/d ratio w 140% solo kills. using only augoror and prophecy and ganking M-O camps

cool story bro

Signature removed. Navigator

Wrathful Hawk
Clipped Wingz
Safety.
#295 - 2012-11-06 20:15:17 UTC
As usual there's STILL going to be NO point to fly command ships over Tech 3 Cruisers.

Lets see, do i want to have a fleet booster that's going to buff as one of the following options

Armor & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range
Siege & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range
Siege & Info - EHP & EW bonus
Armor & Info - EHP & EW Bonus

OR as one of THESE following

Armor & Skirmish & Info - EHP & Point Range & EW Bonus
Siege & Info & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range & EW Bonus
Armor & Info & Skirmish - EHP & Point Range & EW Bonus
Siege & Skirmish & Armor - EHP & Point Range & EHP

Sure the boosts are a third lower than the command ships, but when the decision comes down to one fleet booster that gives me 66% of bonuses over three sets of Links, or two of 100%, I'm going to pick the one that offers more variation EVERY time.
I'm losing 2% overall bonus sure but when you actually think about it, which are you going to prefer? The worst of the four is the Loki which offers bonuses to both tank types and point range / speed, but in any fleet, give me a very simple choice of the above and i'll pick proteus/ legion & tengu near enough every time.

The loss of 33% EHP bonus & Skirmish can be easily negated by and improved upon by better EW (especially with TD's becoming the all powerful mod they're about to become.)
and the loss of 33% EHP bonus & Info can easily be negated by an increase to a fleets overall ab/mwd speed or range domination with points.

I'm sorry, but the choices are obvious to anyone with half a brain that doesn't rely solely on one game mechanic to win..
*cough* drake fleet * cough* goons *cough*

/rant.

I know which i'll choose every time.

And just a quick mention, if you're going to get skirmish boosts ON FIELD for armour, are you really going to use a slow lumbering prophecy hull over a tech 3 cruiser with insane speeds? I think not.

Dessau
The Scope
#296 - 2012-11-06 20:15:42 UTC
Quote:
As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid.

My favorite news to drop in this blog, though I wonder if the grid push plus the boost nerf is a bit of a double whammy for Wing Leaders et al.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2012-11-06 20:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Really, the only thing that came to my mind when reading about the battleship part was the Dominix...

Can the Dominix get a facelift... err plastic surgery uhm i mean complete remodeling? Pregnant finless space whales aren't exactly fearsome.
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#298 - 2012-11-06 20:16:06 UTC
What worries me is how you will change command ships, from what I can tell you're going to turn them into a jack of all trades master of nothing.

That means the Damnation will lose its famous tank, the Absolution will lose its dps. The same for the Eos(lulz ****) and Astarte.
The Sleipnir and Claymore. The Vulture and Nighthawk.

I do no like this idea, because if field no longer can tank and gank, then its lost its purpose.

If fleet command can no longer tank and survive to support the fleet, then its lost its purpose.
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#299 - 2012-11-06 20:17:37 UTC
xo3e wrote:
like removing ecm drones


There will be a new skills that will boost your sensor strength and the jamming gets a bit nerfed in Retribution. Thread is in Test server feedback subforum.

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#300 - 2012-11-06 20:17:40 UTC
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
lol my main char has 11:1 k/d ratio w/ 90% solo kills, never used links


lol my main char has 9999999:1 k/d ratio w 140% solo kills. using only augoror and prophecy and ganking M-O camps

cool story bro


A pleasure to meet you, Garmon.