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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

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Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#261 - 2012-11-06 19:22:43 UTC
Let's have a moment of silence for our sweet, sweet 5% links.




Moving on!

CCP Fozzie wrote:
However, let's throw a brainstorming concept out here just for fun: What if gang links worked a lot like warp disruption spheres? Smile


They would have to be awfully big spheres to work well in a fleet that is skirmish boosted so they can zoom freely around the battlefield. Having boosts to your speed but having to hug another ship in order to get them is counterproductive. Likewise, all the ewar ships would have to cluster around your info command ship. That wouldn't be very much fun.

In general, how do you feel about the state of information warfare links? Are they part of the ewar problem and are wrong and bad? Are they terribad and underused? Is it just that no one loves the Eos, but one day, its prince will come?
Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#262 - 2012-11-06 19:24:23 UTC
CCP should get used to the idea of losing alot of alt-subs when they nerf offgrid boosting


just sayin...

You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,  this is your final warning.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#263 - 2012-11-06 19:26:10 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:

Tbh, the whole concept that one race is capable of skirmishing and the other one is mostly blobtastic is utterly stupid. I want to use Amarr for hit-and-run stuff just like I want to use Matari, Caldari and Gallente for it.

I would have thought you'd sincerely appreciate that different races are more or less capable at things in EVE it seems like the sort of thing you'd like.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#264 - 2012-11-06 19:26:22 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
I'm very concerned on command ships - namely those under current field badge. Will they retain their full 4 combat bonuses and get another one on top of it to have gang-links as a true option or they gonna get hit (once again) and get something removed for that purpose?


i think that the role bonus is going to get longer tbh... and then have former skills be raplaced with usefull combat skills.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
JessiJames
Bats Country
#265 - 2012-11-06 19:29:16 UTC

Could you give some details what is currently planned for the Eos as an "effective" drone ship - such as if the current idea revolves around giving it 100-125 bandwith or more like just keeping the 75 bandwith. I assume if you say "effective drone boat" that means the standard 10% bonus to drone damage is the plan.

Thanks
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#266 - 2012-11-06 19:30:46 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Iam Widdershins wrote:
I'm really surprised at the way you arranged the double bonuses on the command ships. Why does Amarr get skirmish while Gallente gets information? That seems incredibly outdated. Amarr have no remarkably fast ships, very few ships that rely on fighting particularly up close, and no ships that have any bonuses to tackle. Meanwhile Gallente, who was given the information warfare instead of skirmish, are known for having fast in-your-face skirmishing brawlers, but they have the recon ships with bonuses specifically for tackle range.

Amarr should be Armor and Info. Gallente should be Armor and Skirmish. Doing it otherwise makes no sense to me.


NOOOOOOOO Amarr want the skirmish bonus the INFO sucks!!!! P


Expanding info links to affect energy neutralizers and capacitor amount/recharge as well as the other EW bonuses could be an interesting change, and would make info links more desirable for general use than before.
Lili Lu
#267 - 2012-11-06 19:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Usually I read a whole thread before I post. But this being election day in the US I'm pressed for time, so I'll go ahead and post berfore reading the thread.


The things that leap out at me on a quick read of the op is that I'm concerned about the lack of reexamination on the BSs. But of course this far out and without any specific proposals no big deal.


With BCs, thank you for normalizing them all essentially at the tier 1 level for slots. Cruisers cannot continue to be obsoleted by BCs. Prior to the tier 2 BCs I, maybe nostalgically, remember cruisers as being worth more. People still desired to train for the tier 1 BCs, but cruisers weren't overlookied in doing so. Hopefully that can return.


With the Commands, and speaking as someone that has all 4 maxed out, I approve for the most part with the framework proposed.

However, with the Amarr commands (and to a lesser extent the Gallente tech III ships), I don't know if you are aware of the inherent conflict with the armor and skirmish bonuses on the same ship. Conceptually it makes sense, but we currently have armor and mobility rigs and modules that directly conflict, nerf each other. So I'm wondering if any rig or plate penalty changes are contemplated.


So, things look ok for the most part, but skirmish and armor links on the same ship present some further module rebalancing problems that I hope are addressed contemporaneously to the BC rebalancing.
xHxHxAOD
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#268 - 2012-11-06 19:34:11 UTC
who snipes with a ferox
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2012-11-06 19:34:15 UTC
When you redo the bonuses from command ships and t3s, please include industrial links in this. If command ships and t3s will be forced on grid, Mining bonuses should also be on grid.
Gibbo5771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#270 - 2012-11-06 19:35:05 UTC
Really wish you would move away from this stupid "Attack" and "support" naming scheme.

This is a sandbox, stop telling us what is supposed to do what.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#271 - 2012-11-06 19:36:49 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:
off grid boosting will not take a huge hit in high sec..

fleets if you call them that will use out of corp boosters on grid.


INCURSION runner here telling your you are off your rockers if you think: "off grid boosting will not take a huge hit in high sec.."
Assault & HQ fleets make much use of them & when Sansha incuelence is over 50% red bar peeps getskidish w/o them


Ohh no! your stupid high sec isk machine doesn't work as well? You might die from time to time?

Ohh those poor poor bears..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#272 - 2012-11-06 19:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Ethan Revenant wrote:
Is it just that no one loves the Eos, but one day, its prince will come?

Let me answer your question with one of my favorite old-school pvp videos.

And before anyone asks no we are not bringing back superNOS.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#273 - 2012-11-06 19:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
I have a question about the Megathron.

Since it was said that the Megathron should be more mobile / agile. Will the Vindicator then get the aditional boost in agility (like it have now over the current Megathron) over the new Megathron stats then?

Will the Vindicator be even more agile then?

Or will this only affect the normal battleships?

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ethan Revenant wrote:
Is it just that no one loves the Eos, but one day, its prince will come?

Let me answer your question with one of my favorite old-school pvp videos.

And before anyone asks no we are not bringing back superNOS.


I remember that movie. I was in the same corp as lofty29 when he made that movie. And that corps is as you know, called Infinitus Odium Pirate.

And here is a nice secret: lofty29 was only 14 or 15 years old when he made those movies.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#274 - 2012-11-06 19:40:56 UTC
Here are some non-******** observations and questions I have. I look forward to them being ignored.

I think the abaddon still should be totally redone to make it something other than a superior armageddon. It was originally justified by the fact that it would have cap issues when 'tanking' - back then tanking didn't mean running a damage control, it meant running a load of reps. Speaking of which, any chance battleships could be less cap booster-reliant? It makes for boring setups.

Will on-grid be the only constraint for gang links, or would you consider giving them say an optimal range and/or falloff, to get people to actually get them in the fight rather than decloaking 300km away? (I think you should do this, grids are horrible.)

Also review (reduce) the actual effects of gang links? Currently you're often better off with 1 combat ship + 1 link ship than you are with 2 combat ships. I'm pretty sure they aren't supposed to be desirable at such a small scale over a combat ship - I was thinking you'd want them when you have multiple squads at least.

The skill progression on leadership is also pretty crazy. 100% effectiveness per level on those spec skills. You need the skill at 5 to use the mindlink. So at spec 4, you are about half as effective as at level 5 with mindlink. It's not diminishing returns at all. Plus mindlinks are expensive as hell. What's up with that?
xo3e
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#275 - 2012-11-06 19:41:53 UTC
Quote:
Tech 3 treatment will focus on making them more generalized. Their Warfare Link bonuses will be reduced from 5% to 2% effectiveness; however they will have bonuses to three racial Warfare Link fields while being able to fit three Warfare Link modules simultaneously.

As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.


nice try to kill already dead solo pvp

:CCP: as always.



people using offgrid 5% t3 bonuses in dualbox can deal with gangs (because it is 90% of solo fights is against gangs)

people without bonuses can go die or return to boring cynabals, dualbox logistics or falcons. thats very nice of you.

please think of it as bittervet butthurt.

Signature removed. Navigator
Clolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#276 - 2012-11-06 19:43:10 UTC
Varesk wrote:
When you redo the bonuses from command ships and t3s, please include industrial links in this. If command ships and t3s will be forced on grid, Mining bonuses should also be on grid.



This x1000
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#277 - 2012-11-06 19:45:14 UTC
Bobo Cindekela wrote:
CCP should get used to the idea of losing alot of alt-subs when they nerf offgrid boosting


just sayin...

Can't make an omlet without cracking some eggs and everyone wants the omlet.
Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
#278 - 2012-11-06 19:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nur AlHuda
I think like all my missiles skills are now wasted with the damnation since the absolution will be able to do the same job - extra armor warfare bonus.

So i was forced to train the missiles with damnation since no other amarr boat is using them except vengeance an bomber and now absolution can be used as fleet command ship which is also simple laser platfrom? Seriously wtf? Its basicaly one or two months of subscription on skils that now i will not need....
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#279 - 2012-11-06 19:47:06 UTC
xo3e wrote:
Quote:
Tech 3 treatment will focus on making them more generalized. Their Warfare Link bonuses will be reduced from 5% to 2% effectiveness; however they will have bonuses to three racial Warfare Link fields while being able to fit three Warfare Link modules simultaneously.

As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.


nice try to kill already dead solo pvp

:CCP: as always.



people using offgrid 5% t3 bonuses in dualbox can deal with gangs (because it is 90% of solo fights is against gangs)

people without bonuses can go die or return to boring cynabals, dualbox logistics or falcons. thats very nice of you.

please think of it as bittervet butthurt.

If your using gang links, you're not solo.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2012-11-06 19:48:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pertuabo Enkidgan
I would much rather see the Ferox as a mean blaster shield boat. Or both if someone wants to snipe with it. More choice the better for the Ferox.

Also, nice Harbinger reference.Cool

EDIT: Looks like you've covered that already. Welp. It's going to be interesting how you're going to handle the Typhoon...I like the oddball ship.