These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#221 - 2012-11-06 18:40:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ming Tso wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[lots of quotes.


Sorry to rehash something already answered, but I'm missing something.

What happens if I DON'T have Racial Cruiser to III before the change, but I have Battlecruiser V.

Let's say I have the following skills:

Battlecruiser V
Caldari Cruiser IV
Minmatar Cruiser III
Gallente Cruiser II
Amarr Cruiser 0

What do I get then?


Caldari Battlecruiser V, and Minmatar Battlecruiser V


After the patch You will need Cruis lvl 4 to train racial BC

But at the same time, if you had lvl 3 for that race you will still get racial BC skill at the same level as your current BC skill

So:
Question 1

If I have:
- caldari cruiser to lvl 3
- and BC to lvl 3
will I be able to train my new Caldari BC from lvl 3 to lvl 4 or will i need to train my cruiser to level 4?

Question 2

If i have:
- caldari cruiser to 3,
- Amarr cruiser to 5
- BC to 5
- and CS to 5

Will I be albe to use Nighthawk? I cant do it now, because of lack of Caldari cruise to 5, but after the patch i will have both: Caldari BC 5 and CS 5 - is that correct?

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#222 - 2012-11-06 18:41:43 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Technically they're my minions Cool


Tsk tsk, management trying to get involved, as always :/


Sense it getting close to Christmas can they be elfs not minions. Big smile
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#223 - 2012-11-06 18:42:33 UTC
Reticle wrote:
Quote:
With this in mind, it becomes quite obvious to focus on training the Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills before the change to get the maximum return effect. We highly recommend you start doing so now.

Translation: this change will be made on Dec 4th


I'll come right out and say the skill changes will not come on December 4th with Retribution but that you should still seriously consider taking them into account when you pick your next skills.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2012-11-06 18:43:07 UTC
When are these changes being rolled out, like a hard date. Hiding behind bullshit isn't helping those of us that now have to remap 6 months early because of your ******* changes.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#225 - 2012-11-06 18:44:02 UTC
I'm really surprised at the way you arranged the double bonuses on the command ships. Why does Amarr get skirmish while Gallente gets information? That seems incredibly outdated. Amarr have no remarkably fast ships, very few ships that rely on fighting particularly up close, and no ships that have any bonuses to tackle. Meanwhile Gallente, who was given the information warfare instead of skirmish, are known for having fast in-your-face skirmishing brawlers, but they have the recon ships with bonuses specifically for tackle range.

Amarr should be Armor and Info. Gallente should be Armor and Skirmish. Doing it otherwise makes no sense to me.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Denegrah Togasa
Perkone
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-11-06 18:45:34 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ming Tso wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
[lots of quotes.


Sorry to rehash something already answered, but I'm missing something.

What happens if I DON'T have Racial Cruiser to III before the change, but I have Battlecruiser V.

Let's say I have the following skills:

Battlecruiser V
Caldari Cruiser IV
Minmatar Cruiser III
Gallente Cruiser II
Amarr Cruiser 0

What do I get then?


Caldari Battlecruiser V, and Minmatar Battlecruiser V


After the patch You will need Cruis lvl 4 to train racial BC

But at the same time, if you had lvl 3 for that race you will still get racial BC skill at the same level as your current BC skill

So:
Question 1

If I have:
- caldari cruiser to lvl 3
- and BC to lvl 3
will I be able to train my new Caldari BC from lvl 3 to lvl 4 or will i need to train my cruiser to level 4?

Question 2

If i have:
- caldari cruiser to 3,
- Amarr cruiser to 5
- BC to 5
- and CS to 5

Will I be albe to use Nighthawk? I cant do it now, because of lack of Caldari cruise to 5, but after the patch i will have both: Caldari BC 5 and CS 5 - is that correct?


I think you misread the blog it states that the changes are to needing racial BC to 4 for Battleships but there is no listed change to the requirements for needing anything to get Racial BC's. So assuming that doesn't change you just need Spaceship Command 4 to be able to train any of the Racial BC skills.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#227 - 2012-11-06 18:46:05 UTC
adopt wrote:
When are these changes being rolled out, like a hard date. Hiding behind bullshit isn't helping those of us that now have to remap 6 months early because of your ******* changes.

those changes have been known to be coming ever since March

.
iskflakes
#228 - 2012-11-06 18:46:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Reticle wrote:
Quote:
With this in mind, it becomes quite obvious to focus on training the Destroyers and Battlecruisers skills before the change to get the maximum return effect. We highly recommend you start doing so now.

Translation: this change will be made on Dec 4th


I'll come right out and say the skill changes will not come on December 4th with Retribution but that you should still seriously consider taking them into account when you pick your next skills.


Great. 3 training plans completely screwed up, and no remaps available to deal with this. Please give us more remaps, or sell them for aurum or something. I really don't want to spend 50 days training destroyers & battlecruisers out of remap.

-
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2012-11-06 18:49:37 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
adopt wrote:
When are these changes being rolled out, like a hard date. Hiding behind bullshit isn't helping those of us that now have to remap 6 months early because of your ******* changes.

those changes have been known to be coming ever since March


Doesn't help the fact the character in question has been training for the last 2 years. Even with the early announcement I didn't want to ruin it's skill training for an entire year to train a single skill 5.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2012-11-06 18:49:57 UTC
Leave my Astarte alone you bastards, it doesn't need any link bonuses. Why on earth would you need to mess with the Field/Fleet dichotomy when no one has complained about it?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#231 - 2012-11-06 18:50:45 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
I'm really surprised at the way you arranged the double bonuses on the command ships. Why does Amarr get skirmish while Gallente gets information? That seems incredibly outdated. Amarr have no remarkably fast ships, very few ships that rely on fighting particularly up close, and no ships that have any bonuses to tackle. Meanwhile Gallente, who was given the information warfare instead of skirmish, are known for having fast in-your-face skirmishing brawlers, but they have the recon ships with bonuses specifically for tackle range.

Amarr should be Armor and Info. Gallente should be Armor and Skirmish. Doing it otherwise makes no sense to me.

Tbh, the whole concept that one race is capable of skirmishing and the other one is mostly blobtastic is utterly stupid. I want to use Amarr for hit-and-run stuff just like I want to use Matari, Caldari and Gallente for it.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#232 - 2012-11-06 18:51:12 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Leave my Astarte alone you bastards, it doesn't need any link bonuses. Why on earth would you need to mess with the Field/Fleet dichotomy when no one has complained about it?


Are you sure about that?
Fanfest springs to mind why does Fleet CS do virtually no dps?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Julius Priscus
#233 - 2012-11-06 18:51:20 UTC
off grid boosting will not take a huge hit in high sec..

fleets if you call them that will use out of corp boosters on grid.
Clolo
Perkone
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-11-06 18:52:44 UTC
I may have herp derped it, but I currently have BC5 plus all racial cruiser skills to 5. Wen this change goes into effect I will have all racial BCs to 5, but will there be any sort of SP refund? I ask because those that get racial cruisers to 3 and have BC5 will get some free SP.
iskflakes
#235 - 2012-11-06 18:52:45 UTC
adopt wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
adopt wrote:
When are these changes being rolled out, like a hard date. Hiding behind bullshit isn't helping those of us that now have to remap 6 months early because of your ******* changes.

those changes have been known to be coming ever since March


Doesn't help the fact the character in question has been training for the last 2 years. Even with the early announcement I didn't want to ruin it's skill training for an entire year to train a single skill 5.


I feel your pain. It's ridiculous that they give advantage to players who happen to be Per/Will remapped when this change gets announced. Everybody else either has to spend 50 days training out of remap, or remap early and have to wait another year to get the skills they were missing. In my case it's completely impractical. If CCP would sell me a remap for 3 PLEX, I would do it.

-
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#236 - 2012-11-06 18:54:14 UTC
Clolo wrote:
I may have herp derped it, but I currently have BC5 plus all racial cruiser skills to 5. Wen this change goes into effect I will have all racial BCs to 5, but will there be any sort of SP refund? I ask because those that get racial cruisers to 3 and have BC5 will get some free SP.

Why would you get a refund? You don't lose anything.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#237 - 2012-11-06 18:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Julius Priscus wrote:
off grid boosting will not take a huge hit in high sec..

fleets if you call them that will use out of corp boosters on grid.


I would like to see ccp use the flagging system like logi will be shootable if they are neutral and interfere

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Dhaaran
deZoltral Bloodline
#238 - 2012-11-06 18:54:32 UTC
the main problem i see with gang link changes are as follows:

1. in a big fleet fight, command ships are way too easy to kill. say you got 200 people in fleet, then killing that one on-grid commandship that specialized in EHP links takes 30% EHP off the other 199. as you promote specialization, there will be no redundancy for this.
the consequence of this fact is: if you want commandships on the grid, they need to have insane amounts of resists, say 500k+ EHP with a total cost for the ship of below 500m. otherwise they just instantly get killed and then everything else dies way faster than it atm, which is already too fast due to alpha.

2. the other thing OGB T3s have going for them that Commandships can not provide is Interdiction Nullification & Covert Ops Cloaks. this makes them extremely well suited for not getting tackled and killed when jumping in and allows them to cloak up while not fighting if there is not a friendly pos in system.

3. the reduction in overall EHP for proper fleets needs to be counterbalanced by either a reduction in the dps of all ships or a general increase to all ships EHP. in a day and age where you get fights with 1200+ people there is sufficient alpha around to instapop everything, which is neither skillful nor interesting gameplay and voids the role of logistics. higher resists allow logistics to be successful at what they are doing.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#239 - 2012-11-06 18:57:06 UTC
Dhaaran wrote:
the main problem i see with gang link changes are as follows:

1. in a big fleet fight, command ships are way too easy to kill. say you got 200 people in fleet, then killing that one on-grid commandship that specialized in EHP links takes 30% EHP off the other 199. as you promote specialization, there will be no redundancy for this.
the consequence of this fact is: if you want commandships on the grid, they need to have insane amounts of resists, say 500k+ EHP with a total cost for the ship of below 500m. otherwise they just instantly get killed and then everything else dies way faster than it atm, which is already too fast due to alpha.

2. the other thing OGB T3s have going for them that Commandships can not provide is Interdiction Nullification & Covert Ops Cloaks. this makes them extremely well suited for not getting tackled and killed when jumping in and allows them to cloak up while not fighting if there is not a friendly pos in system.

3. the reduction in overall EHP for proper fleets needs to be counterbalanced by either a reduction in the dps of all ships or a general increase to all ships EHP. in a day and age where you get fights with 1200+ people there is sufficient alpha around to instapop everything, which is neither skillful nor interesting gameplay and voids the role of logistics. higher resists allow logistics to be successful at what they are doing.


Your talking about the problems of blob warfare you can't ask for ridiclous EHP buffs to solve your problem

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#240 - 2012-11-06 19:00:03 UTC
Dhaaran wrote:
the main problem i see with gang link changes are as follows:

1. in a big fleet fight, command ships are way too easy to kill. say you got 200 people in fleet, then killing that one on-grid commandship that specialized in EHP links takes 30% EHP off the other 199. as you promote specialization, there will be no redundancy for this.
the consequence of this fact is: if you want commandships on the grid, they need to have insane amounts of resists, say 500k+ EHP with a total cost for the ship of below 500m. otherwise they just instantly get killed and then everything else dies way faster than it atm, which is already too fast due to alpha.

2. the other thing OGB T3s have going for them that Commandships can not provide is Interdiction Nullification & Covert Ops Cloaks. this makes them extremely well suited for not getting tackled and killed when jumping in and allows them to cloak up while not fighting if there is not a friendly pos in system.

3. the reduction in overall EHP for proper fleets needs to be counterbalanced by either a reduction in the dps of all ships or a general increase to all ships EHP. in a day and age where you get fights with 1200+ people there is sufficient alpha around to instapop everything, which is neither skillful nor interesting gameplay and voids the role of logistics. higher resists allow logistics to be successful at what they are doing.


There's an ancient warfare technique known as misdirection. If you have a 200 man fleet, maybe try having more than 3 or 4 command ships. Especially if they're given more combat roles, maybe have 20 or 30 command ships. Nobody will know which one is giving the bonuses unless you have spies in your fleet feeding the enemies intel.

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon