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CCP nerfing ECM or how I learned to love the blob...
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Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#1 - 2012-11-03 22:35:47 UTC

I'm wondering what other people's feelings, thoughts are on the upcoming ECM nerf as it applies to Sov warfare. It seems to me in my very limited experience that starting with the Titan nerf and now moving through the ECM nerf coming in Retribution, that CCP is making it harder and harder for small groups to stand up to the blobs of eve.

Thoughts? Is this a gross oversimplification and or over reaction?
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#2 - 2012-11-03 22:42:15 UTC
CCP has always been pro-blob, so i don't think you're jumping to conclusions.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#3 - 2012-11-03 22:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
You're right, ECM totally hurts blobs more than it hurts small gangs. Jamming 3/50 people is totally more harmful than jamming 3/10 people, or 3/3 people.

Ed: also blobs totally don't use ECM themselves to cause the latter effect.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#4 - 2012-11-03 22:45:44 UTC
ECM always was and always will be on the side of whoever bring the most ECM ships... and in my experience the 'blobs' bring them most.

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I invented Tiericide
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#5 - 2012-11-03 22:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Weiland Taur
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're right, ECM totally hurts blobs more than it hurts small gangs. Jamming 3/50 people is totally more harmful than jamming 3/10 people, or 3/3 people.

Ed: also blobs totally don't use ECM themselves to cause the latter effect.


Your sarcasm is powerful. It makes you strong.

I imagine that if the 3 out of 50 that you jam are logistics it might make a difference. My point is that CCP seems to be against force multipliers and or equalizers. I might be completely wrong but it seems as if a trend is developing.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-03 22:51:13 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
I imagine that if the 3 out of 50 that you jam are logistics it might make a difference.


while the 47 remaining dudes pop your ECM ships

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-11-03 22:52:27 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're right, ECM totally hurts blobs more than it hurts small gangs. Jamming 3/50 people is totally more harmful than jamming 3/10 people, or 3/3 people.

Ed: also blobs totally don't use ECM themselves to cause the latter effect.


Your sarcasm is powerful. It makes you strong.

I imagine that if the 3 out of 50 that you jam are logistics it might make a difference.

If it's roughly even numbers, sure, but you still have most of your gang able to actually do things. Against small gangs, you don't even need to care about what you jam. Just jam anything and you win.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#8 - 2012-11-03 23:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're right, ECM totally hurts blobs more than it hurts small gangs. Jamming 3/50 people is totally more harmful than jamming 3/10 people, or 3/3 people.



QFT
usrevenge
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-11-04 04:19:31 UTC
tbh in my experience ECM is used mostly on logi and the FC in the larger fleet fights, it isn't like you warp onto the field and random drakes number 2-71 are jammed out... ECM would be more broken for the small gangs of 10-20.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2012-11-04 04:36:06 UTC
If I read the numbers right, ECM actually got buffed on the ECM ships didn't it? The Nerf is to the base module, but the ECM ships all got more powerful bonuses which cancel & then some the nerf. So with regard to Falcon etc, Isn't it a buff?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#11 - 2012-11-04 04:47:50 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
If I read the numbers right, ECM actually got buffed on the ECM ships didn't it? The Nerf is to the base module, but the ECM ships all got more powerful bonuses which cancel & then some the nerf. So with regard to Falcon etc, Isn't it a buff?

Well, when the time is right, get a Falcon, try it and report back.

Also, you're a no-skill ECM noob. Surprise!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2012-11-04 04:50:53 UTC
Quote:
ECM always was and always will be on the side of whoever bring the most ECM ships... and in my experience the 'blobs' bring them most.


Very different than most other offensive modules in EVE, where bringing more of them actually reduces your effectiveness.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#13 - 2012-11-04 06:35:31 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're right, ECM totally hurts blobs more than it hurts small gangs. Jamming 3/50 people is totally more harmful than jamming 3/10 people, or 3/3 people.

Ed: also blobs totally don't use ECM themselves to cause the latter effect.


Your sarcasm is powerful. It makes you strong.

I imagine that if the 3 out of 50 that you jam are logistics it might make a difference. My point is that CCP seems to be against force multipliers and or equalizers. I might be completely wrong but it seems as if a trend is developing.

Is CCP nerfing all the other forms of electronic warfare too?

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Orin Fatch
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-11-04 07:05:57 UTC
Are you ********? lets say 500 vs 100, u say that 100 was going to use ECM to even the odds vs 500? nock out their logi for example? umm hello mate the 500 people are probably using the same tactic with their 400 more, and thus the 100 people are in the same situatuion as before. So its not boosting or nerfing the blob. its just boosting ships its designed to be used on. IE the 1400 abaddons :)
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-11-04 07:16:56 UTC
Hold up.

I thought ECM was being nerfed because it was to powerful against small gangs.

What page are we on again? Is ECM on the side of the Blob or the Small Gang? Is there some sort of love interest involved? Perhaps ECM is the Mercutio of this tragedy, neither Blob nor Small Gang, but still a victim of circumstance?
DZeeta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-11-04 07:38:26 UTC
Turelus
Utassi Security
#17 - 2012-11-04 09:01:08 UTC
As an ECM pilot I already looked into the changes and... they're worthless.

-10% range means nothing. My Falcon can jam at an optimal of somewhere around 62 instead of 68.
Racial Sensor Str Skills: Even with this bonus and a full Sensor Str implants, and running ECCM I can still jam a Scimitar with a 23% chance.

So unless the calculations I did were wrong it wont effect much. I'm more annoyed they're trying to once again fiddle the issue instead of sitting and really fixing it.
We just have four new mandatory PVP skills in the game now!

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-11-04 09:08:34 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
You're right, ECM totally hurts blobs more than it hurts small gangs. Jamming 3/50 people is totally more harmful than jamming 3/10 people, or 3/3 people.

Ed: also blobs totally don't use ECM themselves to cause the latter effect.


Your sarcasm is powerful. It makes you strong.

I imagine that if the 3 out of 50 that you jam are logistics it might make a difference. My point is that CCP seems to be against force multipliers and or equalizers. I might be completely wrong but it seems as if a trend is developing.

Is CCP nerfing all the other forms of electronic warfare too?



actually, damps are not being boosted, just fixed. It has been 4 year since CCP triple-nerfed them, and all they (Tuxford) said about that was "Gallente ships have damp bonuses?". I have never, ever forgot that.

TD's are being made more powerful in TD ships and weaker in the rest, and painters are getting a nudge.

This ECM nerf however was the first time I've seen CCP not applying sledgehammer tactics to nerfing stuff. They will have less range, and, indirectly, permajam less, but it seems sensible and they will still be useable, if the stats posted are anything close to the final shape.

if this was the old way of nerfing things, CCP would had cut their effectiveness and range in half, and made ECM ships have half of their current base EHP, and then boosted their weapon damage bonuses, and add a drone bay for 3 light drones.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Jeff simply
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-11-04 09:25:39 UTC
Where is the post that details these changes ?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-11-04 09:32:51 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168820&find=unread

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
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