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[Winter] Ewar Tweaks for Retribution

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M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#101 - 2012-11-03 00:26:16 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Quote:

*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)


Do you realize what kind of monster your creating in the falcon?
If it wasn't OP before, it will only get worse now, another 25% to the strength, even with the range nerf, will be just insane.

People will continue to fly Scorpion fleets and Widows just as much as they do now, but Falcons will just get even more OP.

Please, don't add these 5% racial bonus, it will only hurt small gang PVP

Edit:

Damn the trolls in my alliance -.-

ECCM comp skills VERY good idea, no more because of falcon Big smileTwisted

Also no more Drakeblob (TM) jamming out half our fleet's scimis Evil

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Lili Lu
#102 - 2012-11-03 00:27:03 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Why do TDs not affect missiles like you proposed...?

Because then TDs as far as the eye can see?

Do you really see no issue with letting one module affect every single non-drone ship in game in a way that makes them almost worthless to fly?

At least ECM needs to dedicate 4 midslots, and their rigs and any lowslots they can spare to doing that. This would be a one module fits all sort of thing.

We don't know whether it will be a sister module or a script. The argument you make supports the sister module suggestion.

Either way, In thinking more about it, the op nerf on TD strength is definitely too timid. Otherwise yes there is the potential for TDs to become a must have module.

However, one other difference you missed between ecm and TD is that that Caldari ewar is unversally effective, even if it requires 4 different modules for having a good chance to be effective on ships that are usually have more mids. And that effect when effective will always be more effective than the other ewars, at least under the current mechanics. Amarr deserves an ewar that is not worthless against probably a third of the ships used in the game. Straight
Lili Lu
#103 - 2012-11-03 00:28:41 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Quote:

*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)


Do you realize what kind of monster your creating in the falcon?
If it wasn't OP before, it will only get worse now, another 25% to the strength, even with the range nerf, will be just insane.

People will continue to fly Scorpion fleets and Widows just as much as they do now, but Falcons will just get even more OP.

Please, don't add these 5% racial bonus, it will only hurt small gang PVP


Either you are wrong or most of the readers of this thread are wrong. I believe most of us read this as applying to everyone in game as a defensive skill against ecm, not an ecm specialist set of skills that buff ecm modules. Smile
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2012-11-03 01:00:14 UTC
Crosspost. I haven't looked at the prices for these modules in a while, though.
Benny Ohu wrote:
Are you considering making T2 EWAR worth taking while you are rebalancing disruption frigates? Right now Meta 4 is better than T2. T2 was cheaper than Meta 4 for a while, but with the whole Technetium business Meta 4 was cheaper and better. With the rebalancing of T2 armour plates, T2 EWAR is the only T2 set of mods with worse stats than their Meta 4 equivalents (I think). What is the design goal for T2 modules over Meta 4 in general? Is EWAR an intended exception?

Meta 4 ECM
Tech 2 ECM

Meta 4 Tracking Disruptor
Tech 2 TD

The activation cost and fitting requirements are both better for Meta 4. This is also true for Sensor Dampers, Target Painters, ECCM, Sensor Backup Arrays, Projected ECCM and ECM burst.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-11-03 01:01:05 UTC
Theo Ramone
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#106 - 2012-11-03 01:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Theo Ramone
Since we're going to reduce the effects of ECM's can we also get some skills to reduce the effects of energy nuet/vamp?

Maybe a skill which hardens your capacitor to make x amount protected from modules that neut/vamp the cap levels?

Frankly, in the "Oh jesus run" list of ships the ewar ranks pretty low. The energy war ships (I'm looking at you pilgrim and curse) scare the bejesus out of me. I dont see too many solo rooks and falcons. Cant really say the same of pilgrims and curses.

ETA:

Oh, can you buff the tank on the ewar ships if your nerfing the jam abilities. Seeing s the jam chance is the only tank.....It would be nice to have a little bit of backup to the increased chance of failure thats coming.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-11-03 01:26:28 UTC
Have you tried capacitor batteries? There was a GD thread with a Pilgrim pilot whining about losing a ship because of them. How dare someone counter my ship!
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-11-03 01:33:01 UTC
Theo Ramone wrote:
Since we're going to reduce the effects of ECM's can we also get some skills to reduce the effects of energy nuet/vamp?

Maybe a skill which hardens your capacitor to make x amount protected from modules that neut/vamp the cap levels?

Frankly, in the "Oh jesus run" list of ships the ewar ranks pretty low. The energy war ships (I'm looking at you pilgrim and curse) scare the bejesus out of me. I dont see too many solo rooks and falcons. Cant really say the same of pilgrims and curses.

ETA:

Oh, can you buff the tank on the ewar ships if your nerfing the jam abilities. Seeing s the jam chance is the only tank.....It would be nice to have a little bit of backup to the increased chance of failure thats coming.


defens against vamp ? isnt that called a cap battery ?
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-11-03 01:36:24 UTC
im sure there will be more changes to dts when missles get implimented and they fully see the extent that they may or may not having (personaly im hopeing there gonne be op).

however one things for fozz to consider and as ive said before i havent ran figures or do ewar myself but i dont see a hugh problem atm (play tests may prove differently) about this unless ecm ship are infront of the dps and tanks or tds become best modual for everything.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#110 - 2012-11-03 01:37:15 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Just remove ECM Caldari completely.


Fixed that for you.

Are you implying that without ECM in its current form Caldari has a worthless ship lineup? Are you seriously saying this?? Do you even play the game????


Can anyone say "Heavy missile nerf??" And what exactly will a dedicated Caldari pilot be flying after patch?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#111 - 2012-11-03 01:40:32 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Just remove ECM Caldari completely.


Fixed that for you.

Are you implying that without ECM in its current form Caldari has a worthless ship lineup? Are you seriously saying this?? Do you even play the game????


Can anyone say "Heavy missile nerf??" And what exactly will a dedicated Caldari pilot be flying after patch?


furry nerf has been cut bacl to what seems like an acceptable lvl (playtest pending) and btw dps isnt all that bad a lil lower but nothing unbearable
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2012-11-03 01:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: serras bang
Lili Lu wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Quote:

*Add four new racial sensor compensation skills that increase each type of Sensor Strength by 5% per level (Requires Electronics 4, rank 3 skills in the Electronics category)


Do you realize what kind of monster your creating in the falcon?
If it wasn't OP before, it will only get worse now, another 25% to the strength, even with the range nerf, will be just insane.

People will continue to fly Scorpion fleets and Widows just as much as they do now, but Falcons will just get even more OP.

Please, don't add these 5% racial bonus, it will only hurt small gang PVP


Either you are wrong or most of the readers of this thread are wrong. I believe most of us read this as applying to everyone in game as a defensive skill against ecm, not an ecm specialist set of skills that buff ecm modules. Smile


yep just read again i thought it was a ship bonus why dose things have to be put so hard to read. yeah yeah im dyslexic :P
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#113 - 2012-11-03 01:44:03 UTC
so just to simplify on the numbers...

broad 10% nerf on unbonused ecm
Griffin and Kitsune face 10% range/strength nerf
max skilled blackbird / tengu bonuses up 2.5%
max skilled scorp bonuses up 10%

buff on LR dampening ships
max skilled dampening buff by 12.5%

broad 5% nerf on unbonused TD
buff on max bonus TD by 2.5%

TP bonus up 12.5% on T1 bonused ships and up 25% on t2

I like the fact theres more emphasis on effectiveness of bonused ewar.
Theres appears to have been some oversight on EAF's, which would be best to have some love.
As for the ECM boats, most ECM ships use their range as their tank.

The new eccm compensation skills as is evident in this thread is quite controversial but with more changes to come its promising that balance will be achieved. do like the way they reduce the effectiveness of ec-300's.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2012-11-03 01:44:18 UTC
serras bang wrote:
furry nerf

nerf furries +1
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-11-03 01:51:04 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
serras bang wrote:
furry nerf

nerf furries +1


very funny :P
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#116 - 2012-11-03 02:23:18 UTC
Can fozzie actually confirm if the 5% td nerf is an actual 5% (ie, 5% of .2) or a 5 percentage point (as all his other changes are listed as) nerf?
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#117 - 2012-11-03 02:49:25 UTC
interesting, very interesting.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#118 - 2012-11-03 02:49:33 UTC
CCP Fozzie:

Can we also see the sensor strength skill ranks reduced to 2? This would bring them into parity with armor and shield damage compensations and lessen the load on pilots who already fly three or four races of ships.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#119 - 2012-11-03 03:05:13 UTC
So you're definition of an "Update" is instead a nerf to those ECM classed T2 Cruisers?

How is that in any way an update?

So not only do you nerf the base effectiveness, you slap me in the face by adding more skills to make the ships more effective?

The Falcon is already paper thin as it is, and now you are going to drop it's range and get it even closer to the combat?

Falcon is long range. Not in the middle of the fight the enemy farts and the ship dies.

What a load of garbage.
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#120 - 2012-11-03 03:08:15 UTC
Sassums wrote:
So you're definition of an "Update" is instead a nerf to those ECM classed T2 Cruisers?

How is that in any way an update?

So not only do you nerf the base effectiveness, you slap me in the face by adding more skills to make the ships more effective?


Please learn to read

Quote:
The Falcon is already paper thin as it is, and now you are going to drop it's range and get it even closer to the combat?

Falcon is long range. Not in the middle of the fight the enemy farts and the ship dies.

What a load of garbage.


Falcon's paper thin because you can't shoot when you're permajammed. You already fly the most risk-averse ship in the entire game so your complaints kind of fall flat

Maybe you can adapt by not flying overpowered, risk-free garbage

watch me be a scurb and get owned