Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Regarding the Dragoon(amarr destroyer): unbonused weapons suck. That a 400mm plate fit with no weapons in the highs is virtually identical in hitpoints and dps to a 200mm plate fit with weapons shows this clearly. The ship is one step away from being better off leaving 3 of its high slots empty! The unbonused weapons that will never be improved by damage mods or rigs have such a bad dps/PG and dps/CPU ratio that they are borderline useless.

This doesn't come as a surprise either, no ship with unbonused weapons has historically been good. The Dragoon will still be viable due to getting most of its damage from drones and having good neuting, but it's never going to feel right.

Do something with the Dragoon. Make it a pure drone ship (0 turret/launcher slots, 3-4 highs) ) or give it a rocket or laser damage bonus. Just don't leave it with 3 highs that it can barely benefit from.

PS: a pure drone Dragoon might look something like this:

5 lows (+1 from current)
3 mids (+1 from current)
3 highs (-3 from current)
46 PG (-9 from current)
170 CPU (+20 from current)

+15% drone damage per level (+5% from current)
+20% drone hitpoints per level (+10% from current)

I wouldn't be so quick to judge that.
Just fitting Dragoon (is that going to be the new name ? ) with rockets/guns, 200mm plate, mwd will give you a ship that is going to deal more damage than a similar tanked Coercer or Thrasher. (Will do 300-400 depending on the choice of guns/ preferred damage projection)

No, he just made that up. Nobody knows the name yet.

Woops, this is the wrong.



Including that, the new Caldari destroyer can fit meta launchers, MWD, medium regolith, other reasonable stuff, with 'only': T2 MAPC, ACR, +3% PG implant. That gets you like 8k EHP, with an invuln and the other two rig slots towards field extenders Alternatively, you can get 7.7k EHP with just one ACR for PG, a small regolith shield extender, an invuln, a DCU, and field extender rigs. (DISCLAIMER: I don't fly shield ships, I have no idea how to fit them. This is 100% EFT talking.)

But you need AWU trained up just to fit missile launchers and an MWD on the thing, without PG help. If that seems skill intensive, I dunno, maybe it's balanced against how terrible drone skills are.



Rockets aren't bad. 60 overheated dps, any damage type, very reliable damage application, no cap consumption, easy on fittings, hits out to scram range with faction ammo. A Malediction's awesome +5% damage/level bonus gives it about +15dps to the same configuration.

Oh, and in a pinch (say, someone's kiting you and has ECM drones on you), you can shoot drones with them without diverting your own drones to this task.



Bleeehhh. Fly an Arbitrator. Gain the ability to field mediums. Gain the ability to hit with medium neuts (= same range, greater cap stolen). Gain a fourth midslot. Gain 3x-4x the tank. Gain speed, even: an 800mm Winter Arbitrator is faster than a 200mm new Amarr destroyer. Spend not much more.

The new Amarr destroyer has so much character. It's a neuting drone boat with two midslots and a really strong capacitor. It has these weird highslots. It's really fun to fly. How crazy is that? But people keep looking at it and saying, man, I wish this ship were so bland that I could forget about it right away and use something else instead.

The original destroyers were designed to be glass cannons with not a whole lot of utility. You see the catalyst with only two mids, the Coercer with one, ect. The drone boats by their nature are about utility. The Gallente destroyer is in a good place. One if the best armor tanks I've seen on a dessy. Web. Nuet. Respectable DPS.

The Amarr destroyer has to choose somewhat between drone damage and tank. It really needs five or six lows to do its job.

After December 4th you may very well be correct. Up until now though the AC Thrasher has been the only destroyer able to fit a tank AND maintain impressive DPS. (7.5k EHP with 440ish DPS) Every other destroyer seems to have crap DPS once you fit anything more then a DC in comparison.

Just to illustrate what I've been saying about the turret and launcher hardpoints being almost useless on the Dragoon (new amarr detroyer)



This one does 219 dps, has 9.89k hitpoints and goes 1278 m/s.






While this one does 225 dps (3% more), has 9.45k hitpoints (4% less)and goes 1315 (3% faster) m/s.


I don't know about you guys, but to me this shows that a serious problem exists.

31 sec with MWD +3 neuts running
41 sec with 3 neuts running
1m 7s with 2 neuts running
3m 35s with 1 neut running


On test server it felt like it runs out of cap quickly. It has enough cap to MWD around a bit, kill the cap of a frigate in two cycles of its 3 neuts and then keep 1 neut running but that's about it. If you want to neut larger targets you need a nos to feed the neuts.

I think it's just that you don't need to fill these hardpoints everytime, like you would on other ships. I don't see a problem with the fact that especially neut-fits might have to leave most of the hardpoints empty. There is still enough room for them in other fittings.

Focusing on neuts, drones and tank without weapons for a small gang environment gets you a beast of a ship, 3mins cap for 5 (!) neuts, 12k tank, and still 150dps. Of course, the ship is useless without a gang due to its mediocre speed and missing point, but in a gang it will be awesome. Especially against the new logi frigates.

Type of gun weapons, mwd/ab, scram/point up to your taste; Using the weapon slots on the other hand gets you a more conventional destroyer that does enough dps with enough tank to be considered on par with the t1-destroyers.


All considered I don't see a major problem with the Amarr destroyer.

Just wondering why my caracal with an MWD goes faster naturally than a cormorant or the new caldari destroyer with an MWD...shouldn't destroyers be faster than cruisers? Why are they so massive and slow after applying an MWD?

Also caldari boat's fitting is WAY too tight. Why is it that we can't fit a medium extender and light missiles, combining both don't at all make the ship OP considering with a medium extender it would still barely get around 9k ehp.