These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[MAJTH] Do you know what I keep hearing?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaleigh Doyle
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-10-13 02:51:09 UTC
I happen to believe that people spend far too much time worrying about the affairs of others when they should be concerned about their own. Do you feel as though the failure of others to understand your values and culture are the result of your own inability to voice its message properly?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#22 - 2011-10-13 03:18:05 UTC
One of the main goals of Majesty is to learn how best to do just that, Ms. Doyle.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#23 - 2011-10-13 06:42:37 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I believe that I should still try to convince you, but if you won't have it... well, I take a longer view on things than most. Don't hurt the empire unless you're punching back, and don't do deliberate harm to creation, and theres not a lot of harm in you sitting there as you will.
That is a rare attitude. Respect for it. And thank you.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#24 - 2011-10-13 11:35:46 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I believe that I should still try to convince you, but if you won't have it... well, I take a longer view on things than most. Don't hurt the empire unless you're punching back, and don't do deliberate harm to creation, and theres not a lot of harm in you sitting there as you will.
That is a rare attitude. Respect for it. And thank you.



Thank you as well. I believe dialogue is possible between our people. I am glad to see that you believe this as well.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#25 - 2011-10-19 12:48:31 UTC
I am in the mood for staring a dialogue on this, rather than just writing an essay. I will start with a short letter.

To holders and other members of the Empire legally authorized to hold slaves.

Dearest friends,

What is more important to you? The right to own slaves, or reclaiming the universe in the name of God?

Once, there was a time when the great golden fleets of the Empire could crush any resistance put before it. However, in recent years, we have seen that the rest of the cluster has caught up to us, and this no longer remains an option.

In addition, not a single other empire, not even our allies in the Caldari State, support the system of slavery that we currently practice. It drives people away from the Empire, and therefore away from God. It has, in fact, become the antithesis of what we have been commanded to accomplish.

Our own emperess has said that the age of slavery is coming to an end. I ask you again, oh Holders, what is more important to you?
Ryven Krennel
Hopscotch
#26 - 2011-10-19 13:44:19 UTC
I have been saying the same thing, but most don't wish to listen to a Caldari convert to the faith. Really, I can't say as I blame them.

"Oh, good, we're surrounded.  That makes this easy."
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2011-10-19 13:49:04 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I am in the mood for staring a dialogue on this, rather than just writing an essay. I will start with a short letter.

To holders and other members of the Empire legally authorized to hold slaves.

Dearest friends,

What is more important to you? The right to own slaves, or reclaiming the universe in the name of God?

Once, there was a time when the great golden fleets of the Empire could crush any resistance put before it. However, in recent years, we have seen that the rest of the cluster has caught up to us, and this no longer remains an option.

In addition, not a single other empire, not even our allies in the Caldari State, support the system of slavery that we currently practice. It drives people away from the Empire, and therefore away from God. It has, in fact, become the antithesis of what we have been commanded to accomplish.

Our own emperess has said that the age of slavery is coming to an end. I ask you again, oh Holders, what is more important to you?


Slavery is one of the tools by which we Reclaim the universe for God.

The age of slavery is indeed coming to an end - because the day is coming when the universe will be Reclaimed and the slaves enlightened.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#28 - 2011-10-19 13:56:55 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I am in the mood for staring a dialogue on this, rather than just writing an essay. I will start with a short letter.

To holders and other members of the Empire legally authorized to hold slaves.

Dearest friends,

What is more important to you? The right to own slaves, or reclaiming the universe in the name of God?

Once, there was a time when the great golden fleets of the Empire could crush any resistance put before it. However, in recent years, we have seen that the rest of the cluster has caught up to us, and this no longer remains an option.

In addition, not a single other empire, not even our allies in the Caldari State, support the system of slavery that we currently practice. It drives people away from the Empire, and therefore away from God. It has, in fact, become the antithesis of what we have been commanded to accomplish.

Our own emperess has said that the age of slavery is coming to an end. I ask you again, oh Holders, what is more important to you?


Slavery is one of the tools by which we Reclaim the universe for God.

The age of slavery is indeed coming to an end - because the day is coming when the universe will be Reclaimed and the slaves enlightened.


I would ask you then to explain how you plan to reclaim the whole universe using current tactics, and considering the reality of the situation, Lord Blake.

My issue is that the Amarr no longer have the sheer firepower to Reclaim at the tip of the sword. New methods must be adopted, and the empire must adapt, as it has always adapted, with the core of God's Will remaining forever inviolate.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#29 - 2011-10-19 13:57:56 UTC
Ryven Krennel wrote:
I have been saying the same thing, but most don't wish to listen to a Caldari convert to the faith. Really, I can't say as I blame them.


Captain Krennel, please tell me why you chose to convert to the faith, if such would not be too personal a question?
Ryven Krennel
Hopscotch
#30 - 2011-10-19 14:01:14 UTC
After a life of mercenary work, piracy, and null-sec hegemony, the burden of all my past sins weighed heavy on me. I am a warrior, a killer, but, I felt I should use my talents in the service of something greater. That something is God, Empress, and Empire.

"Oh, good, we're surrounded.  That makes this easy."
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#31 - 2011-10-19 14:03:42 UTC
Ryven Krennel wrote:
After a life of mercenary work, piracy, and null-sec hegemony, the burden of all my past sins weighed heavy on me. I am a warrior, a killer, but, I felt I should use my talents in the service of something greater. That something is God, Empress, and Empire.


I am glad to hear you say this. In God and Service are all things cleansed.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2011-10-19 15:08:48 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I am in the mood for staring a dialogue on this, rather than just writing an essay. I will start with a short letter.

To holders and other members of the Empire legally authorized to hold slaves.

Dearest friends,

What is more important to you? The right to own slaves, or reclaiming the universe in the name of God?

Once, there was a time when the great golden fleets of the Empire could crush any resistance put before it. However, in recent years, we have seen that the rest of the cluster has caught up to us, and this no longer remains an option.

In addition, not a single other empire, not even our allies in the Caldari State, support the system of slavery that we currently practice. It drives people away from the Empire, and therefore away from God. It has, in fact, become the antithesis of what we have been commanded to accomplish.

Our own emperess has said that the age of slavery is coming to an end. I ask you again, oh Holders, what is more important to you?


Slavery is one of the tools by which we Reclaim the universe for God.

The age of slavery is indeed coming to an end - because the day is coming when the universe will be Reclaimed and the slaves enlightened.


I would ask you then to explain how you plan to reclaim the whole universe using current tactics, and considering the reality of the situation, Lord Blake.

My issue is that the Amarr no longer have the sheer firepower to Reclaim at the tip of the sword. New methods must be adopted, and the empire must adapt, as it has always adapted, with the core of God's Will remaining forever inviolate.


I didn't say that slavery is the only tool.

It's a fool who bins his screwdriver because at that moment he's hammering nails into a wall. Who knows when he'll have a screw that needs screwing?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#33 - 2011-10-19 15:18:14 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I am in the mood for staring a dialogue on this, rather than just writing an essay. I will start with a short letter.

To holders and other members of the Empire legally authorized to hold slaves.

Dearest friends,

What is more important to you? The right to own slaves, or reclaiming the universe in the name of God?

Once, there was a time when the great golden fleets of the Empire could crush any resistance put before it. However, in recent years, we have seen that the rest of the cluster has caught up to us, and this no longer remains an option.

In addition, not a single other empire, not even our allies in the Caldari State, support the system of slavery that we currently practice. It drives people away from the Empire, and therefore away from God. It has, in fact, become the antithesis of what we have been commanded to accomplish.

Our own emperess has said that the age of slavery is coming to an end. I ask you again, oh Holders, what is more important to you?


Slavery is one of the tools by which we Reclaim the universe for God.

The age of slavery is indeed coming to an end - because the day is coming when the universe will be Reclaimed and the slaves enlightened.


I would ask you then to explain how you plan to reclaim the whole universe using current tactics, and considering the reality of the situation, Lord Blake.

My issue is that the Amarr no longer have the sheer firepower to Reclaim at the tip of the sword. New methods must be adopted, and the empire must adapt, as it has always adapted, with the core of God's Will remaining forever inviolate.


I didn't say that slavery is the only tool.

It's a fool who bins his screwdriver because at that moment he's hammering nails into a wall. Who knows when he'll have a screw that needs screwing?


Then, fundamentally, we do not disagree.

Now, let me ask you; If slavery were hurting the cause of reclaiming, upon what would you place the higher priority?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#34 - 2011-10-19 16:17:22 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


Then, fundamentally, we do not disagree.

Now, let me ask you; If slavery were hurting the cause of reclaiming, upon what would you place the higher priority?


Clearly, since the Reclaiming is the reason we enslave then if slavery were hurting the Reclaiming it should be phased out.

But I see no evidence that slavery is hurting anything worthwhile.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#35 - 2011-10-19 16:21:33 UTC
Slavery is making the rest of the peoples of the cluster reject Amarr out of hand because we are 'evil slavers' to their view. Our beliefs are not accepted. You only need to talk to people to understand that a vast number of the masses of the cluster will never accept our teachings willingly.

Not such a big deal when we had the power to perform the reclaiming at the end of the sword, but now?

Our cultural influence is being outstripped by the Gallente, because they use different tactics. Do you need proof of this? Look to the Matari. They chafe at being influenced, but influenced they are, because the influence does not come with the threat of vitoxin poisoning behind it.

Our tactics, our methods, they must also adapt, because the objective cannot and will not change.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#36 - 2011-10-19 16:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
So, let me get this straight, Thessalonia - you are basically saying that if Reclaiming worked, it would be a good idea, but since it seems it doesn't, other avenues should be pursued to spread the God's word? You opposition to current Amarrian politics is pragmatic in nature, rather than moralistic?

On a more practical vein; will you be joining the Amarr Militia?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#37 - 2011-10-19 16:48:53 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
So, let me get this straight, Thessalonia - you are basically saying that if Reclaiming worked, it would be a good idea, but since it seems it doesn't, other avenues should be pursued to spread the God's word? You opposition to current Amarrian politics is pragmatic in nature, rather than moralistic?

On a more practical venue; will you be joining the Amarr Militia?


I have not yet dealt with the moral issues I have with slavery in this forum, no. I am dealing with the practicalities for my brothers and sisters.

I believe reclaiming to be a good thing, unabashedly. I disagree with the method by which it has performed.

Majesty Theological Institute has no plans on joining the Amarr Militia at this time. We are focusing on internal matters first, especially since Majesty is only made up of myself at the moment.

On that note, while I thank those who have made offers of material support, it is so far unnecessary. What I need are pilots, and missionaries.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2011-10-19 17:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Slavery is making the rest of the peoples of the cluster reject Amarr out of hand because we are 'evil slavers' to their view. Our beliefs are not accepted. You only need to talk to people to understand that a vast number of the masses of the cluster will never accept our teachings willingly.

Not such a big deal when we had the power to perform the reclaiming at the end of the sword, but now?

Our cultural influence is being outstripped by the Gallente, because they use different tactics. Do you need proof of this? Look to the Matari. They chafe at being influenced, but influenced they are, because the influence does not come with the threat of vitoxin poisoning behind it.

Our tactics, our methods, they must also adapt, because the objective cannot and will not change.


You do not win an argument by agreeing that your opponent was right all along.

You do not defeat an enemy by appeasing them.

You do not convert someone to your way of life by imitating them.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#39 - 2011-10-19 17:40:10 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Slavery is making the rest of the peoples of the cluster reject Amarr out of hand because we are 'evil slavers' to their view. Our beliefs are not accepted. You only need to talk to people to understand that a vast number of the masses of the cluster will never accept our teachings willingly.

Not such a big deal when we had the power to perform the reclaiming at the end of the sword, but now?

Our cultural influence is being outstripped by the Gallente, because they use different tactics. Do you need proof of this? Look to the Matari. They chafe at being influenced, but influenced they are, because the influence does not come with the threat of vitoxin poisoning behind it.

Our tactics, our methods, they must also adapt, because the objective cannot and will not change.


You do not win an argument by agreeing that your opponent was right all along.

You do not defeat an enemy by appeasing them.

You do not convert someone to your way of life by imitating them.


I think you are under the mistaken impression that any of this was what I was saying.

You do not suceed at your goals by using tactics which will not work.

Why are you looking at people as enemies, here? Do you believe that doing so will make them come to the faith any easier? If you do, I would like to understand your reasoning, so please enlighten me.

If you think that I wish to convert people by imitating them, you do not in the least understand what I believe needs to be done. I am suggesting that we, ourselves, bring people into the faith by acting in ways that deserve emulation. It is the opposite of what you are suggesting that I believe.

By following the precepts of St. Junip, later expanded by Heideran VII, we will do exactly this, Brother Blake.
Ryven Krennel
Hopscotch
#40 - 2011-10-19 18:02:17 UTC
Also, historically, those societies that do not adapt, inevitably fall. The ability to change to meet the demands of a changing world is crucial to survival. Also, removing the key obstacle to non-believers listening willingly to our faith's teachings may very well garner a groundswell of willing converts. Slavery is a societal institution with a spiritual basis that has been abused. We either phase slavery out or eradicate the abuses. The third option is gaining some new overwhelming military superiority and sweep a burning swath of imperial dominance through the cluster.

I am a pragmatist. I have no moral objection to slavery's spiritual purpose. However, the use of vitoxin and general mistreatment I do have issues with.

"Oh, good, we're surrounded.  That makes this easy."