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Pocket Base Concept

Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#1 - 2012-10-29 17:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikk Narrel
Pocket Base

Specialized POS designed for use in the described EVE universe after it is no longer required to anchor a POS at a moon.

This POS has two structures.
Like current POS types, it comes available in small, medium, and large.

The Main POS is identical to current POS structures, with three defining differences.
No shield. This also means fighting can occur in and around the base freely.
No ability to be probed or scanned down directly. All vessels and objects within the outer limit of the accel gate are equally blocked from scanning.
No cyno fields of any type can be used within this field, and ALL vessels are blocked from use of warp drive itself. (MWD can be used) Ships must leave the field before jump drives can be used coming or going.
Entry and exit, unless slowboating, is done between the accel gates. One is located in the interior at the tower base. One is located at the exterior, at a distance dependant on the size of the tower.

Note: ships entering and exiting the tower's influence can be scanned as normal while outside the influence. An opponent looking for a tower simply watches for where scan signals vanish. Anyone foolish enough to cyno in at the exterior gate risks pointing out the entry point to all in the system.
The accel gates cannot be locked, so anyone trying to come in can do so.

Small:
Primary structure is 100KM from the exterior accel gate.
Everything is on the overview when you land on grid.

Medium:
Primary structure is 300KM from the exterior accel gate.
Everything is on the overview when you land on grid that would normally be visible at this range.

Large:
Primary structure is at least 1000KM from the exterior accel gate.
Nothing is on the overview when you land on grid, as it is on a different grid. Enter at your own risk.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2012-10-29 19:16:48 UTC
Ok, so you substitute secrecy for physical defense kinda.

If it was one of the personal sized items they mentioned in that blog, I think it would be called a small holding.

I assume it has internal structures and defense like a regular POS, minus the shield part.

I kinda like the big one, it reminds me of a pitcher plant. Ship goes in not knowing what to think, and gets popped by guys waiting on inside for em.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#3 - 2012-10-29 21:14:01 UTC
It definitely lacks the safety aspect present in current day POS.

Yes, it would have the same internal structures.
The big difference is that the guns and batteries would only operate on vessels that had come into the POS.

Not sure if I made this clear, with the exception of the log-in warp, noone can warp into this directly. Any attempt would drop you off next to the external acceleration gate.

Defending one of these would be a lot like defending a jump gate, except in theory your opponents could slow boat their way over to you. Put up a warp bubble inside, and if you don't like the visitor, open fire. Bubble keeps them out of range of the interior accel gate, making it like a trap. (Never tried bubble in combination with an accel gate's landing zone, but I am thinking it should work)
(tactics with the small POS would have sniper ships shooting across the intervening distance quite possibly)
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-10-29 21:41:10 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
It definitely lacks the safety aspect present in current day POS.

Yes, it would have the same internal structures.
The big difference is that the guns and batteries would only operate on vessels that had come into the POS.

Not sure if I made this clear, with the exception of the log-in warp, noone can warp into this directly. Any attempt would drop you off next to the external acceleration gate.

Defending one of these would be a lot like defending a jump gate, except in theory your opponents could slow boat their way over to you. Put up a warp bubble inside, and if you don't like the visitor, open fire. Bubble keeps them out of range of the interior accel gate, making it like a trap. (Never tried bubble in combination with an accel gate's landing zone, but I am thinking it should work)
(tactics with the small POS would have sniper ships shooting across the intervening distance quite possibly)

so basically, people would either completely ignore anyone who is inside one of these...

or blob it with everything they have to ensure they overkill the poor saps inside?.... wonderful.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#5 - 2012-10-29 21:48:46 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
so basically, people would either completely ignore anyone who is inside one of these...

or blob it with everything they have to ensure they overkill the poor saps inside?.... wonderful.

You are skipping ahead a few steps.

For starters, ignoring implies knowledge with apathy. You know it is there, but you couldn't be bothered.

As to blobbing, you are referring to fights between ships.
The only comparison to current mechanics is shooting a POS till it is reinforced, then going home till the timer runs out.
Tactically speaking, if the ships go inside to hit that tower, and defenders show up outside, I see a bubble going up at the exterior accel gate.

Then, depending on which tower, ambush of various types.
If you can't defend a tower that gets discovered, you have a problem.

Be good at fighting, or secrecy discipline.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2012-10-30 14:17:52 UTC
Mary Annabelle wrote:
Ok, so you substitute secrecy for physical defense kinda.

If it was one of the personal sized items they mentioned in that blog, I think it would be called a small holding.

Now that you mention it, the smallholding thread was similar to this in some ways.

If you can keep the location a secret, not necessarily an easy task, you then have a secret base.

Now, details for balance after the provisional change to POS requirements described in the OP. Devs will want to consider whether items in the pocket are included in local or not. (It would be reasonable that no local would work in the pocket, eliminating AFK cloaking concerns)

The small base tower can be effectively fired on from outside by ships fit for long range.
But for a small operation, it might also be the quickest and easiest to place in space.
Miss Doggy
Zahadu
#7 - 2012-10-30 21:55:49 UTC
interesting idea! I can see where this could be expanded upon. I like the way you are thinking.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#8 - 2012-10-31 00:04:46 UTC
smells like Pie gate-camp 2.0

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#9 - 2012-10-31 13:49:30 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
smells like Pie gate-camp 2.0

Ahhh, nearly all the potential tactics of a gate camp, but in my opinion fewer drawbacks.

Noone HAS to go into one of these stations.

If you choose to enter one not belonging to you, you do so by choice, and at your own risk.
Some might argue jump gates are also completely by choice, but this ignores that travel is not necessarily a PvP interest. Some deal with jump gates purely by desire to get past them without being shot.
Entering someone else's station would be unmistakably a PvP interest.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-31 13:52:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
There are some interesting Ideas here, this concept of creating bases in dead space pockets may be interesting, but i think that this should be realy expensive and hard to obtain in game, to prevent abuses.

Take a look at THIS topic and please leave a comment!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#11 - 2012-10-31 14:36:53 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
There are some interesting Ideas here, this concept of creating bases in dead space pockets may be interesting, but i think that this should be realy expensive and hard to obtain in game, to prevent abuses.

Take a look at THIS topic and please leave a comment!

I have faith the devs will be able to balance this.

The idea in raw form relies almost entirely on player effort for defense, not having a shield centered defense like the current POS.

(Can they keep it a secret? A smaller corp is not going to be likely to mount a successful defense against a major fleet, but if they are good enough to hide it they may not need to...)
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-01-07 18:39:41 UTC
I just thought about something like this today. One problem I ran into was, is the gate destructable and what happens if it is destroyed?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#13 - 2013-01-07 18:52:18 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
I just thought about something like this today. One problem I ran into was, is the gate destructable and what happens if it is destroyed?

No. The external gate is not subject to damage.

The outside gate is a projected effect from the tower, more akin to a hologram.
This is why it cannot be locked, as the tower only detects a ship presence to be pulled in when the signal is sent to the external.
(It monitors the projection field and detects the signal, then pulls in the ship that originated it)
Sentinel zx
#14 - 2013-01-07 21:09:54 UTC
i kind like your idea i thought about something like that maybe ..

making POS tierside given POS different anchor location, what i mean

for example
-The Moon POS

with high Defense
low - moderate productivity
moderate offense
no forcefield

can be attacked by orbital bombardment Munition (we already have the tools why using it only for Dust on Planets Big smile)

about Pocked POS i thought

using new mobile Acceleration gates that lead you inside a Deadspace

-the mobile Acceleration gates move every hour (maybe 2) in a different location in system
-only corp-members get the correct position of the Acceleration gates
-the Deadspace it self is an only empty Space
-you can only anchor the Pocked POS / Deadspace POS
-Capitals could not use this gate

-The Pocked POS / Deadspace POS

Low-Moderate-Good Defense
Low-Moderate-Good Offense (maybe you can only install ship Weapons no POS Weapons)
Low-Moderate-Good productivity

no forcefield or Small one

(going for the good productivity, you get low def and offense, in short risk versus reward)

how to destroy this thing
scanning the gate and using hacking module to activate it (low chance)
or waiting until somebody activated it

Destroying , Looting and Salvage the ship of a member of this corp
to get position and pass key to the gate

and of course Mobile and Static POS

just some thought Big smile
Grezh
Hextrix Enterprise
#15 - 2013-01-08 00:20:36 UTC
Maybe making the POSes pseudo scannable, such that with max everything it is impossible to get it to 100%, it would give the residence knowledge that someone has set up a pos, just if the pos owners are careful enough that they could keep the entrance safe.
What i am worried about is the ability to deathstar these posses. Should they have the ability to fit passive defences? Or maybe the entrance moves a bit every few hours such that it is required one of the pos residence to make a mistake to allow for a neighbour to evict them. This kind of pos would be a godsend for someone living behind enemy lines.
Beta Miner
COBRA Logistics
#16 - 2013-01-08 04:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Beta Miner
In regards to scanning down this mini pos; maybe if isn't scannable at all, but uncloaked ships around it would still be scannable ... so if you don't want the place to be discovered you have to be careful how long you loiter outside before docking up or warping off.

AFK Cloaking? An afk cloaker has never ganked me. In fact a cloaker at his keybourd has never ganked me either.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#17 - 2013-01-08 14:38:44 UTC
Beta Miner wrote:
In regards to scanning down this mini pos; maybe if isn't scannable at all, but uncloaked ships around it would still be scannable ... so if you don't want the place to be discovered you have to be careful how long you loiter outside before docking up or warping off.

That's the basic idea.

This style of POS has zero hard defenses like a shield, but it cannot be scanned for directly.

That means it relies on the discipline of the users to not carelessly reveal it's location, as anyone going inside the POS has direct access to all modules and ships it contains.
Yes, it has guns, and they work as automatically as current POS guns do, but they are anchored in the inner section of the POS.
This means they still can't shoot targets outside their range.
Keep in mind, though they are placed in the inner section, they can shoot any target that comes into range, including someone slow boating from the outside.

You ARE likely to encounter player specific defenses inside as well.