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[Winter] New destroyers

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Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#861 - 2012-10-28 15:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bouh Revetoile
Soon Shin wrote:
If that were the case maybe, but unfortunately when pursuing a target, drones fly very fast to catch up to the target and then slow down and try to orbit. Unfortunately, when they do this they slow down to nearly a stop and the frigate zooms right out before the drones can start their orbiting sequence. The drones then have to chase again and the cycle repeats.

Other times the drones for some strange reason do not reach their max speed when trying to pursue a slower, yet still fast moving target, allowing the ship to outrun them.

Heck I've tested it out with a cynabal going at 2,000 m/s and I was outrunning the warriors. Something about that code messes with them and makes them perform poorly against high speed moving targets.

The only time I've seen warrior go their max speed is when trying to travel to the target from a distance, when trying to chase the target they slow down quite a bit.

The drone code is broken and needs a serious revamp.

Maybe warriors are too fast but slower drones could do it ? IIRC, bonused hornets should have the same speed than unbonused warriors, and warriors work pretty well against frigs ATM.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#862 - 2012-10-28 15:39:26 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:

Maybe warriors are too fast but slower drones could do it ? IIRC, bonused hornets should have the same speed that unbonused warriors, and warriors work pretty well against frigs ATM.


Its not the mwd speed that is the biggest issue. It is the non-warp combat speed (they turn off their MWD and use AB when they get near the target). Warrior is used because it is the fastest traveling in-combat drone.

When they are in combat, the destroyer's MWD drone bonus is useless. ;(

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#863 - 2012-10-28 16:36:31 UTC
the only way I can see the drone destroyers doing good at this point is either a revamp of the way drones fly against fast ships
or a range, tracking and normal-speed buff as a ship bonus or drones in general

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#864 - 2012-10-28 18:31:17 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
the only way I can see the drone destroyers doing good at this point is either a revamp of the way drones fly against fast ships
or a range, tracking and normal-speed buff as a ship bonus or drones in general


Yep. Drones have been in a very sad state generally for a very long time. Now, instead of fixing drones, they're trying to build and balance ships that would work with current broken drone mechanics.

The only possible outcome from all this - the drone boats will still suck, and almost nobody will ever use them. Then, eventually, maybe when drones are fixed, they'll have to re-balance all of the drone boats yet again to tone them down because of better performing drones. In other words, ship rebalance + drone fix + ship rebalance again. Instead of drone fix + ship rebalance just once.
Changchup Dzadzey
Blackfan-Diamond Ltd.
#865 - 2012-10-28 22:12:53 UTC
PICTURES! We want pictures!
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#866 - 2012-10-29 01:14:15 UTC
Changchup Dzadzey wrote:
PICTURES! We want pictures!


http://imgur.com/a/eBIka

Also:

Nobody's flying frigates on the test server, and I don't have an alt with any SP, so I can't experiment with siccing different drones on MWDing frigates. By the way, duality is a really easy install. I've given up several times in the past on getting into the test server, but this time it was a piece of cake. The instructions actually worked.

Neuting drones aren't bonused on the Amarr destroyer. A flight of EV-300s inflicts about half the GJ/s cost of a SARII, for reference.

I'm not sure how +MWD speed would help acolytes vs. other drones; Acolytes're already the second-fastest drone.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#867 - 2012-10-29 02:04:06 UTC
I've been trying to fly frigates as much as possible I guess just convo me if im on Smile

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#868 - 2012-10-29 03:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarnak Wulf
Gallente Pure Tank Comedy: disclaimer - I was able to fit this only with a Genolution CA-1 and CA-2 set. I also have a hybrid 605 and a surgical strike 905 in the equation.

High:
Electron Blaster II x 6
Medium:
Limited MWD
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor
Low:
DC II
400mm rolled tungsten
EANM II
Rigs:
Armour Trimark x 3

Drones:
Hobgoblin II x 7
Light ECM x 5

348 DPS overheated with Null. 149 from drones. 10324 EHP. Add a Legion booster and enjoy. Big smile
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#869 - 2012-10-29 09:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Kuehnelt wrote:


Nobody's flying frigates on the test server, and I don't have an alt with any SP, so I can't experiment with siccing different drones on MWDing frigates. By the way, duality is a really easy install. I've given up several times in the past on getting into the test server, but this time it was a piece of cake. The instructions actually worked.

Neuting drones aren't bonused on the Amarr destroyer. A flight of EV-300s inflicts about half the GJ/s cost of a SARII, for reference.

I'm not sure how +MWD speed would help acolytes vs. other drones; Acolytes're already the second-fastest drone.


This time the instructions don't work at all for me...every time I finish the installation and try to run the client, the installation starts again...

So, since I couldn't try out my soon-to-be- favourite-toy (the Amarrian Dessi) yet, I will have to annoy you with more questions:

If the drones have problems catching mwd-ing frigates despite the mwd-speed bonus, wouldn't it be more efficient to switch the drone speed bonus to a Neuting-drone bonus?
Neuting drones could drain enough cap to turn off the mwd of a frig, then you get close enough to use your own small neuts and switch the neut drones with damage drones...

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#870 - 2012-10-29 11:31:05 UTC
Or they could fix webbing drones.

The stacking penalty is awful and makes using small and medium web drones useless.
LoRDa RaMOs
Vicious Traditions
#871 - 2012-10-29 14:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: LoRDa RaMOs
CCP Goliath wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
name for the caldari destroyer : Goliath


I like your style!


The case against: That would be for the Minmatar, Amarr or Gallente, since Mythology is common in their ship names. I applaud this name being applied to a model though.

A wild Caldari Destroyer appears: If there's anyone listening, I would recommend an endangered sea bird species, like The Albatross: 'The albatrosses and petrels are "amongst the most severely threatened taxa worldwide' according to http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320703001782 and more importantly, this jewel about the Black-browed Albatross, a mildly endangered species 'This species has been observed stealing food from other species' Twisted as stated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-browed_Albatross#cite_note-Poncet-14

Other choices include Pelican and Shoebill (because Shoebills look badass), due to their taxonomic relation to familiar names as Ibises and Herons.

Btw, something curious for you Devs to joke about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_heron

Looking forward to these ships.
Armin Arraeb
Doomheim
#872 - 2012-10-29 16:56:39 UTC
I realy like the look of the new destroyers. But as a gallente fan i need to ask:

The new gallente destroyer looks like a micro carrier. I finde it strange, that it is so week in drone combat.
The drone bandwithe should be 50 Mbit/sec. And in my eyes it should be able to fit "Drone Control Unit I".
That for it would be ok, if the destroyer looses the turret bonusses, and even hardpoints.


As a second idea:
As the most tier3 ships, the new Destroyers should be more skill intensive, and have a stronger defense. (resistances, HP or more low- or med- slots)

---please excuse my english--- :)
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#873 - 2012-10-29 17:13:48 UTC
Armin Arraeb wrote:
I realy like the look of the new destroyers. But as a gallente fan i need to ask:

The new gallente destroyer looks like a micro carrier. I finde it strange, that it is so week in drone combat.
The drone bandwithe should be 50 Mbit/sec. And in my eyes it should be able to fit "Drone Control Unit I".
That for it would be ok, if the destroyer looses the turret bonusses, and even hardpoints.


As a second idea:
As the most tier3 ships, the new Destroyers should be more skill intensive, and have a stronger defense. (resistances, HP or more low- or med- slots)

---please excuse my english--- :)



They are doing away with 'tiers'. They want different roles, but not necessarily have to be more skill intensive for the same base ships. Since they are slower I do agree a bit with maybe more defense being nice.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#874 - 2012-10-29 17:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
LoRDa RaMOs wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
name for the caldari destroyer : Goliath


I like your style!


The case against: That would be for the Minmatar, Amarr or Gallente, since Mythology is common in their ship names. I applaud this name being applied to a model though.

A wild Caldari Destroyer appears: If there's anyone listening, I would recommend an endangered sea bird species, like The Albatross: 'The albatrosses and petrels are "amongst the most severely threatened taxa worldwide' according to http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320703001782 and more importantly, this jewel about the Black-browed Albatross, a mildly endangered species 'This species has been observed stealing food from other species' Twisted as stated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-browed_Albatross#cite_note-Poncet-14

Other choices include Pelican and Shoebill (because Shoebills look badass), due to their taxonomic relation to familiar names as Ibises and Herons.

Btw, something curious for you Devs to joke about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_heron

Looking forward to these ships.


The albatross is too large... a small destroyer shouldn't be named after one of the largest living birds on earth.
Shoebill is nice, but too close to the already existing Hookbill.
Pelican just doesn't sound aggresive enough.

Since it looks like a submarine, why not name it after something fishy? I'd like the name "Swordfish".

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
AlexHalstead
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#875 - 2012-10-29 18:50:43 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
LoRDa RaMOs wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Recoil IV wrote:
name for the caldari destroyer : Goliath


I like your style!


The case against: That would be for the Minmatar, Amarr or Gallente, since Mythology is common in their ship names. I applaud this name being applied to a model though.

A wild Caldari Destroyer appears: If there's anyone listening, I would recommend an endangered sea bird species, like The Albatross: 'The albatrosses and petrels are "amongst the most severely threatened taxa worldwide' according to http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006320703001782 and more importantly, this jewel about the Black-browed Albatross, a mildly endangered species 'This species has been observed stealing food from other species' Twisted as stated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-browed_Albatross#cite_note-Poncet-14

Other choices include Pelican and Shoebill (because Shoebills look badass), due to their taxonomic relation to familiar names as Ibises and Herons.

Btw, something curious for you Devs to joke about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath_heron

Looking forward to these ships.


The albatross is too large... a small destroyer shouldn't be named after one of the largest living birds on earth.
Shoebill is nice, but too close to the already existing Hookbill.
Pelican just doesn't sound aggresive enough.

Since it looks like a submarine, why not name it after something fishy? I'd like the name "Swordfish".
Kingfisher, Kite, or (to use an extinct bird as a mythical creature) Kairuku, Titanus (A Terror Bird species) or Seriema Terror Birds' closest living relatives that prey on small creatures.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#876 - 2012-10-29 19:00:46 UTC
ConranAntoni wrote:
Apolagies for double post but as an example of the Caldari destroyers hilarious pg you require two anc current rigs in order to make a standard pvp close range rocket fit.


what

I think you need to improve your fitting skills, because I can build a close range Caldari tier 2 destroyer with only one MAPC. Leaving the rigs for pretty much anything else (usually survivability).
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#877 - 2012-10-29 19:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Soon Shin
Aglais wrote:
ConranAntoni wrote:
Apolagies for double post but as an example of the Caldari destroyers hilarious pg you require two anc current rigs in order to make a standard pvp close range rocket fit.


what

I think you need to improve your fitting skills, because I can build a close range Caldari tier 2 destroyer with only one MAPC. Leaving the rigs for pretty much anything else (usually survivability).


You don't need any fitting mods to put a close range fit on tier 1 destroyers.

And yes the MWD bonus is mostly useless since drones use orbital velocity when engaging their target. Buffing orbital velocity also means a Nerf to tracking, so you can't really just buff velocity either.

The lack of fitting really limits these destroyers to a few viable fits.

Overall the drone destroyers have little to offer as an alternate to tier 1 destroyers.

This applies so but to a lesser extent to the missile destroyers.

The thrasher is much superior tothe tier 2 counterpart.

The cormorant doesn't have the fitting issues and can easily go from blaster to rals while fitting an mse without needing fitting mods, unlike its tier 2 variant.

Destroyers should not be complete glass cannons to the point you have frigates outlasting them.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#878 - 2012-10-30 00:01:55 UTC
Soon Shin wrote:
Overall the drone destroyers have little to offer as an alternate to tier 1 destroyers.

They won't get rofltd'd
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#879 - 2012-10-30 00:05:48 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Soon Shin wrote:
Overall the drone destroyers have little to offer as an alternate to tier 1 destroyers.

They won't get rofltd'd


Yup. If you theorycraft a little bit with your corpies (or IRL buddies who play eve) you'll find a couple of interesting fits to come up with.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
#880 - 2012-10-30 01:23:16 UTC
Name the Caldari destroyer Albatross.