Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Introduction: War decs basically create 0.0 conditions in high sec (and low sec) minus the warp bubbles. Anyone who interferes by attacking either side gets concorded. But anyone who interefers by logistics remote remote repairing only gets temporary aggression. These are the mechanics, and not necessarily the problem (directly).

The issue: In order to execute a strategic response to a threat, you must be able to conduct proper intelligence gathering operations. You must get a good understanding of the enemy's locations, numbers and ship types. Neut logis in high sec undermine the ability to determine the enemy's logistical remote repair strength.

Example: Fleet A determines WT Fleet B to be inferior and engages in high sec. Neut Fleet C (may be technically in Fleet B) jumps through the gate and aids Fleet B. Fleet A cannot break Fleet B's tank and Fleet B begins to prevail. Neutral (non-WT) Fleet D enters system to aid Fleet A. etc etc.

Concern: Solutions to this issue typically adversely affect Incursions and other similar scenarios.

Solution: In order to enable all sides of a war dec to properly engage in intelligence collection methods, the use of logistical remote repair modules on war targets must be treated exactly the same as the use of offensive weapons. In essence, they are just as important in determining the outcome of a battle. The message warning of the Concordable offense allows the logistics ship one last chance to avoid getting Concorded. Fleets will have the option added to prevent players with war decs from entering them, and an option in the client can disallow the player from joining any fleet containing any player engaged in a war dec. For those not associated with war decs, there would be no change in the current mechanics and incursions and other activities will continue normally.

Now that logistics is also concordable against war dec corps, logistics needs to enter the war dec properly through the joining of the war dec corp/alliance. The war dec mechanic would need to change to prevent the abuse of the corp acceptance application immediately prior to logistical entrance into a war dec battle. Joining a corp or alliance with a war dec should require a one hour delay before the character is admitted into the corp. This way, a war dec battle cannot be turned by the instant admission of logistical pilots into the corp .. as they jump into system with war dec status to assist in a war target engagement. Additionally, the war dec should show characters and corps pending admission into the war dec during that hour delay.

Summary: While the inteference of neut logis is a problem, the much greater problem is being able to "predict the number of neut logis (let alone their location!)" (below) available to the enemy at any given moment. Requiring them to be either in the war or Concorded like any other offensive meddler solves the problem. Allow fleets to block players in war and logis to get warnings for RR to people in other wars allows Incursions and in many other situations to continue on like normal.

Perhaps I missed one. Please link it.

That dev blog does not address the issue at all. Best it says is
This mechanic is hardly a change from the current mechanic, and it does nothing to enable wars to be fought in high sec without neutral interference. If a neut shot his gun, you know that concord would be on him in a heartbeat.

The Dev Blog is a huge hit to neutral Logistics.... It doesn't eliminate them, but it makes their life very difficult, as any passerby fleet can just engage them and gank them. This is especially true for logistics ships because they really can't defend themeselves....so they can easily become trapped by that neutral fleet and eliminated...

Stop

Trying

To

PVP

In

Highsec



Highsec pvp is absolutely terrible.

Tribal always has wars. If I could predict the number of neut logis (let alone their location!), I am sure that winning against them wouldn't be so difficult. The right type and amount of ECM should do the trick. But that is exactly the problem. You cannot predict the exact number of neut logis that will be available to the enemy in high sec at any given time. People's schedules vary between time zones, and the guys getting ganked don't see them on the km (being neut, that usually means Concordoken) or notice them flashing yellow/red during combat. There are just too many neuts flying around or docked to track them all down and evaluate which are blue and which are neut/red.

A similar issue exists with the OP Titan jumpbridge. There is no way to predict the number of ships which may jump through, so the traditional methods of intelligence gathering is rather useless. You really have to have an inside person within the enemy ranks or else you are screwed.

Edit: PS, Garviel, it is what it is. If there is a wardec, and you need to go to/through high sec, you may have to engage in pvp against war targets whether you like it or not.

its funny though! remember a harbi getting concordokkened and killing a few other ships years ago when i herpderp can flipped with a drake :P brix were sh@t when they rolled up in a navy raven with torps and due to being pointed i couldnt mwd orbit and lol gank the raven :P

Agreed.

Neutral logistics aiding an enemy war target and not going suspect or shootable in any way is an exploit and probably against EULA and should be a bannable offense.
~ Why should i have to fight with CCP about getting my ship back when my enemy uses an exploit to stay alive. Better yet if CCP doesn't fix it. why shouldn't i use the same exploit to keep myself alive.