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Total war and the NPC.
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Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#1 - 2012-10-27 00:48:07 UTC
Stab in the dark...

I get really annoyed at players who hide/flip flop around in NPC corps to avoid wardecs. However I'm also aware we need NPC corps to nurture rookies and setting arbitrary "time to grow up" methods seem fraught with danger.

So what about setting the NPC factions to war? Pemanently.

As soon as an NPC corpie turns off his (soon to be) new "safety switch" or agresses anyone he becomes an enemy of the factions and is now a legitimate target to the warring factions? (bit like neg faction status incurred by many mission runners)

He will be restricted to his own factions's space or have to make the bold and daring decision to corp up.


Incentivised gameplay or working as intended?

Does it fit in with lore to put NPC's to the steel?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-10-27 00:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
It would encourage people to **** on newbies which I ironically am not fond of. Can't scam them if they quit the game before they have any assets you see.

Border control doesn't even happen in nullsec. It sure isn't going to happen with people flapping through highsec at all hours of the day. You would finally get regional trade hubs though.
Death-NoTe
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-10-27 00:56:49 UTC
Someone camping you 2/10 plex and can kill him ?
Big smile
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#4 - 2012-10-27 01:03:27 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
It would encourage people to **** on newbies which I ironically am not fond of. Can't scam them if they quit the game before they have any assets you see.

Border control doesn't even happen in nullsec. It sure isn't going to happen with people flapping through highsec at all hours of the day. You would finally get regional trade hubs though.

Newbies - totally agree.

But newbies are being given a new "tool" to seperate their noobness - aggression and or "flipping THAT switch" would be deemed as a choice thing saying "I have come of age".

And perpetual border control is probably overstating - the NPC's don't actually fight anyway - but would work against NPC corpies like neg faction status as a missioner does. Little needs to be changed on that front.

Would it be even be "dangerous" enough to promote a reason to change though? (it's pretty benign unless you AP everywhere)...

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#5 - 2012-10-27 01:07:10 UTC
Death-NoTe wrote:
Someone camping you 2/10 plex and can kill him ?
Big smile

Actually you know - that does make it interesting.

Remaining in NPC after you "come of age" could well make you a legitimate target to other players in warring factions in addition to NPC.

Solves the - need a clear and present danger incentive to leave NPC corp - problem Cool

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Speaker for TheDead
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Fraternity.
#6 - 2012-10-27 01:43:09 UTC
Once again, wanting to force people into your lifestyle....bad....Oops

You need to get over worrying about what other people are doing, and worry about what you want to do.....or don't....Roll



"Inception date: [u]Expired[/u]."
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-10-27 01:46:18 UTC
NPC corps' wardec exemption should be removed, but not by setting them in wardecs collectively as you suggest, but instead let them be wardec'd individually, as if they were part of one-man player run corps such as yourself. That way, high profile, high profit targets can be singled out for combat while newbies and casuals can still fly below the wardec radar.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#8 - 2012-10-27 01:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
NPC corps' wardec exemption should be removed, but not by setting them in wardecs collectively as you suggest, but instead let them be wardec'd individually, as if they were part of one-man player run corps such as yourself. That way, high profile, high profit targets can be singled out for combat while newbies and casuals can still fly below the wardec radar.

This. Far better again. +1

(Though this might need to be coupled with requiring an aggression to have occurred to "permit" a wardec so as not to promote the griefing of noobs? - a definitive trigger is needed here me thinx

Further -
eg:
1) Buying something on the market is NOT a trigger but selling something is?
2) Engaging in PvP is an immediate trigger?
3) Stealing or doing anything that rewards a flag is a trigger?
)

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#9 - 2012-10-27 01:54:36 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Once again, wanting to force people into your lifestyle....bad....Oops

You need to get over worrying about what other people are doing, and worry about what you want to do.....or don't....Roll

Note the word incentivize (gets used a lot)

There is a distinct difference from forcing someone to do something - you WILL leave (and I related that to arbitrary exit timing) - versus offering the choice to leave if you should choose action X Y or Z.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#10 - 2012-10-27 02:08:10 UTC
There's nothing stopping you suicide ganking people in NPC corps.

Of course, if you're after people to shoot you could head out to lowsec/null. Join Faction Warfare. Join a nullsec alliance. Head out to Providence. Any number of options.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-10-27 02:24:42 UTC
A fun one would be to set the races as at war.
With faction warfare giving you a carte blanche to go after them, though you will want to watch the gate guns, navies, and the undockable stations.
But if you are not in the fw corp you only suffer the latter and still remain a target.
Sort of the logic of civillians in military critical industry.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#12 - 2012-10-27 02:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Mara Rinn wrote:
There's nothing stopping you suicide ganking people in NPC corps.

Of course, if you're after people to shoot you could head out to lowsec/null. Join Faction Warfare. Join a nullsec alliance. Head out to Providence. Any number of options.

I'm often amused at how people (deliberately perhaps?) not understand intent in a post. I shouldn't have to gank anyone if he's being an ass - if he conducts the assery, why should I pay the price - TWICE.

I should be able to invite him down to the local boxing ring and give him a thorough, legitimate and deserved thrashing for his assery. He may decline the invitation but I have a way to make him stop being an ass because he now has a consequence attached to it instead of giggling at everyone like a schoolgirl in a playground.

The type we're talking about here are the ones that deliberately commit aggression and then hide so they can't be touched unless you actually do gank them. And this includes haulers, marketers and miners who COMPETE in this, a PvP game, and can't be touched unless it is a gank.

If risk/reward is to be balanced and true, any COMPETING ACTION must have a COMPETING (and equal result) COUNTER.

- I expect all and every NPC ass to poo-poo this thread. Those with kahooneys will know exactly what I mean though. This is NOT a new problem but it is in need of new solutions. Bounties won't be the solution because I have to gank to apply the consequence.

If I get punished twice because of your actions - that's not allowing me the right to "retribution" - it's promoting cowardice.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#13 - 2012-10-27 02:52:21 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
The type we're talking about here are the ones that deliberately commit aggression and then hide so they can't be touched unless you actually do gank them. And this includes haulers, marketers and miners who COMPETE in this, a PvP game, and can't be touched unless it is a gank.


So are you suggesting that a personal wardec should follow the capsuleer regardless of what corporation they move to?

Can you not see how this would be thoroughly abused as a means of punishing someone you don't like?

How do you propose a wardec will impact a station trader who never undocks?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2012-10-27 03:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Mara Rinn wrote:
Can you not see how this would be thoroughly abused as a means of punishing someone you don't like?

You realize that punishing a specific individual or group that somebody does not like is pretty much the entire function of wardecs, right? Somebody dislikes the behavior/personality/activity of a group of individuals or an individual in that group and either declares war on them or pays somebody else to declare war on them to punishment for their transgression. Hell fairly often people want a generic group of people punished for the actions of a single person just to worsen the reputation of that person with the individuals being attacked. Given that this is the case I don't see how you can reasonably argue that people being able to shoot at other people who they don't like is bad and is somehow an "abuse" of a mechanic, because it obviously isn't.

I mean, I don't think that wars should follow single individuals when they leave a corp and I don't have any particular desire to be able to declare wars on members of NPC corp, but your argument is stupid and bad.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#15 - 2012-10-27 03:26:56 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Can you not see how this would be thoroughly abused as a means of punishing someone you don't like?

You realize that punishing a specific individual or group that somebody does not like is pretty much the entire function of wardecs, right? Somebody dislikes the behavior/personality/activity of a group of individuals or an individual in that group and either declares war on them or pays somebody else to declare war on them to punishment for their transgression.

Better make sure they have a way to shed the wardec then, by leaving and re-entering their NPC corp?

Like disband and reform your one man corp, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ghazu
#16 - 2012-10-27 07:49:10 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Once again, wanting to force people into your lifestyle....bad....Oops

You need to get over worrying about what other people are doing, and worry about what you want to do.....or don't....Roll




I want to gank people like you.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-10-27 08:01:32 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
There's nothing stopping you suicide ganking people in NPC corps.

Of course, if you're after people to shoot you could head out to lowsec/null. Join Faction Warfare. Join a nullsec alliance. Head out to Providence. Any number of options.


Yes but the fail wolf needs easy and unsuspecing targets... oh and posting in another nerf high-sec thread.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-10-27 08:03:55 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
I get really annoyed at players who hide/flip flop around in NPC corps to avoid wardecs.



Great, CCP gave you tools to counter this and is about to buff it even more than ever in this game history.

-> don't like it? -> gank it

And soon:

->put a bounty on it-> gank it

The free pass to make it so kill NPC corp players becomes profitable and cheaper than high sec wardecs with their dec shields.

They obviously don't like your game style and you obviously don't like theirs but it's supposed to be a sand box Lol

brb
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#19 - 2012-10-27 08:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
No offence Touval, but why do you post so many radical (and usually badly thought through) ideas? You must realise no one is going to support them.

NPC corps are a necessary evil. If people don't want to ever have to participate (willingly) in PvP (by PvP I mean player ships exploding), then there needs to be somewhere for them. They're still just as likely to get suicide ganked etc. Sure, they're safer than the rest of us, but they're also in an NPC corp. Sooo.. more fool them really. But at least they get the choice.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-10-27 08:25:52 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
NPC corps are a necessary evil. If people don't want to ever have to participate (willingly) in PvP (by PvP I mean player ships exploding), then there needs to be somewhere for them.

The place for players like that is some game other than EVE because

Arduemont wrote:
They're still just as likely to get suicide ganked etc.

Willingly or not, you're going to get your **** blown up at some point, best to just accept it.

CCP has no sense of humour.
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