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so, eve is getting some heat from the gaming industry, 2 new space games from major players coming

First post
Author
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2012-10-25 17:45:11 UTC
If a Freelancer remake or some such was mad, I'd be gone in an instant Shocked
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#122 - 2012-10-25 17:48:01 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:




are there any game engines that can compete with that ?


It is amazing !

+1 for the vid



Dice's frostbite 2 engine used in battlefield 3 can come pretty close, but nothing that i've seen matches what crytek is going right now with this engine, right down to teselation support built in, wich absolutely requires DX11 and can only be run with a PC, as current consoles are limited to DX9.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#123 - 2012-10-25 17:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Webvan wrote:
[quote=digitalwanderer]


I know that, and so do they, as they need more. You cant cash out unless you reach your goal with kickstart. So you need to set your goal low. Cryengine costs 1.2 mil to license. With 2mil, counting all costs, me saying five employees is being gracious, though they need far more employees than that including the jobs outside of development (lawyers, accountants etc.). They would be lucky to have $200k left to pay employees from $2M. $200k for say two years? Almost enough to pay one senior programmer.

As for the cryengine, I don't care for it too much. That was part of my comment as to why players will need a high-end computer at launch. It works really hard, takes a lot of resources to run well in comparison to say the Unreal engine, and that's not so good for an mmo for a number of reasons... especially if we hit a portable revolution in the coming years as many believe, beyond the obvious reasons of player loitering, blobbing etc. I've never used the cryengine, but I very much dig the Unreal engine and it's tools, especially as it's more affordable (half the price) and very indie dev friendly.






Well instead of writing a long reply, here's page for the objectives they've set for themselves, depending on how much money they generate and BTW, the totals between kickstarter and the official page is now at 2.1 million, with 25 days left in kick starter and 15 days left on the official site....Blink


http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/


Click the stretch goals just beside the total money already collected if you need to.


EDIT: kickstarter was supposed to generate 500 000 dollars and it's already exceeded that mark quite nicely( 606 000$), aand there's 25 days left there:


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen


Let's face it, support is just pouring in because a fair amount of people want this done, that much is obvious.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#124 - 2012-10-25 18:14:39 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
If a Freelancer remake or some such was mad, I'd be gone in an instant Shocked



It will have elements from freelancer, starlancer and the wing commander series in a single game....Big smile
Contralto
Rift Tech
#125 - 2012-10-25 19:05:58 UTC
Although I am 3 years behind Digital I have also all but ceased playing Eve, just selling some assets and finishing off the skill tree. (5 skill books left) I already have 4 70 mill plus SP characters unsubbed since over a year.

I have pledged for a mid range package for SC and will transition across as soon as the Alpha is released.

As a confirmed "carebear" (hate that term) I have been filtering all references to PVP from the Devs on the SC forums, seems they are very much PVE orientated so that immedietly differentiates Eve from SC and will mean most of the PVP crowd here will stick with EVE.

Chris Roberts has played EVE and Ben Lesnick intends to try

Here is a quote from Ben Lesnick one of the senior SC Devs

Quote:
Very, very little of the game concept is about PVP


Overall they seem to be saying that while PVP will be possible they want it to be discouraged, not worthwhile and costly.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#126 - 2012-10-25 20:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Contralto wrote:
Although I am 3 years behind Digital I have also all but ceased playing Eve, just selling some assets and finishing off the skill tree. (5 skill books left) I already have 4 70 mill plus SP characters unsubbed since over a year.

I have pledged for a mid range package for SC and will transition across as soon as the Alpha is released.

As a confirmed "carebear" (hate that term) I have been filtering all references to PVP from the Devs on the SC forums, seems they are very much PVE orientated so that immedietly differentiates Eve from SC and will mean most of the PVP crowd here will stick with EVE.

Chris Roberts has played EVE and Ben Lesnick intends to try

Here is a quote from Ben Lesnick one of the senior SC Devs

Quote:
Very, very little of the game concept is about PVP


Overall they seem to be saying that while PVP will be possible they want it to be discouraged, not worthwhile and costly.




Well to be honest, EVE used to be that way a long time ago when the amount of isk that could be made, even in 0.0 space was a joke compared to today and wars between the early aliances at the start of the game lasted a couple of weeks at most, since aliances could not afford the costs of war for prolonged periods of time when it comes to ship and module losses.


It was a time when even in 0.0, there were nothing but cruiser spawns to farm( topping out at 50k isk per ship), so one was lucky to make maybe 5 million isk a day farming them for a few hours, there were no NPC battleships, no anomalies, no officer spawns, no moon goo or dedicated mining ships or selling GTC's on the market......Basically nothing existed that we take for granted today, with regards to isk generation.


So today, it's mostly that eve has become far too easy to play at least in terms of money generation, wich for the large aliances out there, allows them to wage war for months and even years in a row without pause...It isn't a money faucet, it's niagara falls to put it bluntly, and the sheer amount of super carriers and titans is proof of that, where they're in the thousands when one combines both classes and CCP originally only wanted a few of them to exist......In some respects EVE is a game that has seriously gone off track in a big way.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#127 - 2012-10-25 23:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Contralto wrote:


Overall they seem to be saying that while PVP will be possible they want it to be discouraged, not worthwhile and costly.

Ouch!
Well, there goes the pvpers. ...and the industrialists ...and the traders ...and the.. is anyone left?
I can understand if it's a small indie project where putting resources into the game is very limited and selective (you guys hype this like a AAA anyway), but this kind of gimps the game in many ways ..like what happened to EnB, tbh. Not saying a game needs to go to one extreme or the other, but it's hard to get past the limitations on the economy without real conflict of some sort, and AI never ever provides that. ...ever! Claim claim claim away but it has been tried and failed time and time again.

Have fun boys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ypn0y32Ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7JB68sLGY8&feature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Obr_ORiJ0&feature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMhdksPFhCM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BepyTSzueno&feature

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#128 - 2012-10-26 02:32:40 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Contralto wrote:


Overall they seem to be saying that while PVP will be possible they want it to be discouraged, not worthwhile and costly.

Ouch!
Well, there goes the pvpers. ...and the industrialists ...and the traders ...and the.. is anyone left?
I can understand if it's a small indie project where putting resources into the game is very limited and selective (you guys hype this like a AAA anyway), but this kind of gimps the game in many ways ..like what happened to EnB, tbh. Not saying a game needs to go to one extreme or the other, but it's hard to get past the limitations on the economy without real conflict of some sort, and AI never ever provides that. ...ever! Claim claim claim away but it has been tried and failed time and time again.

Have fun boys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ypn0y32Ac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7JB68sLGY8&feature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Obr_ORiJ0&feature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMhdksPFhCM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BepyTSzueno&feature




Why do you think that is beyond me. since it's supposed to be a harsh universe out there with actual risks involved if you want to be a PVP'er and somewhat like what eve used to be in the early days when earning money was slow as well as training skills.....It took me 4 weeks to get into my first cruiser when i started eve.


Before that point it was me doing 4~5 hour stints in a frigate and mining minerals in high sec and here's something i learned from those days that i still use to this day.....Always leave assets and spare ships in high sec empire, fully fitted of course, and never take everything with you into 0.0 territory if there's a reaal chance you might lose it, and the aliance won't pay you a new ship from their PVP funds.


So expecting star citizen to have easy and risk free PVP just isn't realistic, and they're aiming for the maximum in realism in all aspects of the game....So given that i was playing EVE when it was much harder than it is today, you think your warnings and cute youtube videos will in anyway change that....Sounds like you want this game to fail before it even gets released.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#129 - 2012-10-26 13:36:31 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
.Sounds like you want this game to fail before it even gets released.

More like I'm being realistic about it. EVE is my third internet spaceship mmog. I was in EnB on launch day and I played SWG from the first live patch (it was a broken-fail launch and w/o JtLS as they rewrote it) to the NGE launch when they took away all my faction-war bases.

This sub-genre demands conflict. That is not a personal opinion, it's just historic. When conflict is not there or it is removed, the game generally declines until it's shut down. Though my opinion is that it doesn't need forced pvp, but it does need something that works very well and beyond tournaments or battlegrounds.

SWG did well when it had TEF (temporary enemy faction) and began the decline when that was removed. There were still opportunities, but once NGE came around those opportunities were removed and the game foundered. Later they introduced WoW style battlegrounds but it didn't bring back subscribers or draw out millions of WoW players to play SWG which had been the gamble since the NGE; not opinion, NGE launch discussion by SOE/LA on forums was clear they were after different players, not us vets. Happy vets draw in new players, not marketing schemes.

EnB was essentially WoW in space (pre-WoW), cuter than those youtube videos I linked. All they did was to later set up combat arenas which was a bad idea as kids would sit at the ent in normal space and crap all over the chat channel trying to get others to pvp. EnB was fluffy fun, but once you lvled up to the cap, the game was over. PvP is end-game, not poop-socking. Poop-sockers play elves and fairies, not spaceship pilots.


tl;dr post/thread
1. Poor choice of engine for an mmo. At launch only the niche of the niche will be able to experience the game, and many that buy in now will be disappointed in their frame rates. These are really bad economic times, and may get worse, players may not run out to buy a new system just for a game. I don't like WoW gameplay, but it solidly proved that low-spec is a winning formula for an mmo.

2. Traditionally this sub-genre (sci-fi internet spaceships) demands conflict and with better than AI conflict, while games that didn't have solid pvp or removed solid pvp, declined and went out of business.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#130 - 2012-10-26 16:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
.Sounds like you want this game to fail before it even gets released.

More like I'm being realistic about it. EVE is my third internet spaceship mmog. I was in EnB on launch day and I played SWG from the first live patch (it was a broken-fail launch and w/o JtLS as they rewrote it) to the NGE launch when they took away all my faction-war bases.

This sub-genre demands conflict. That is not a personal opinion, it's just historic. When conflict is not there or it is removed, the game generally declines until it's shut down. Though my opinion is that it doesn't need forced pvp, but it does need something that works very well and beyond tournaments or battlegrounds.

SWG did well when it had TEF (temporary enemy faction) and began the decline when that was removed. There were still opportunities, but once NGE came around those opportunities were removed and the game foundered. Later they introduced WoW style battlegrounds but it didn't bring back subscribers or draw out millions of WoW players to play SWG which had been the gamble since the NGE; not opinion, NGE launch discussion by SOE/LA on forums was clear they were after different players, not us vets. Happy vets draw in new players, not marketing schemes.

EnB was essentially WoW in space (pre-WoW), cuter than those youtube videos I linked. All they did was to later set up combat arenas which was a bad idea as kids would sit at the ent in normal space and crap all over the chat channel trying to get others to pvp. EnB was fluffy fun, but once you lvled up to the cap, the game was over. PvP is end-game, not poop-socking. Poop-sockers play elves and fairies, not spaceship pilots.


tl;dr post/thread
1. Poor choice of engine for an mmo. At launch only the niche of the niche will be able to experience the game, and many that buy in now will be disappointed in their frame rates. These are really bad economic times, and may get worse, players may not run out to buy a new system just for a game. I don't like WoW gameplay, but it solidly proved that low-spec is a winning formula for an mmo.

2. Traditionally this sub-genre (sci-fi internet spaceships) demands conflict and with better than AI conflict, while games that didn't have solid pvp or removed solid pvp, declined and went out of business.



Err... it will have PVP, just that it won't be easy or the most profitable thing in the game most of the time, wich is exactly what it should be, wich is why i mentioned EVE in the early days and if you lost your ship, you'd be busted down to the newb ship for a couple of weeks, working to buy something a little better for PVP.


EVE back then was as hardcore as it gets...It's much easier today given the means to generate a lot of isk quickly, and train skills a lot faster.


And yes, the game engine he uses meant to push the limit on what PC's can do, just like every game he's ever made in the past and it didn't stop them being successfull anyhow, and it's about time that people see how much far above PC's are over the current consoles to be honest, wich are 6~7 years old technology wise and that's enourmous when it comes to hardware.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-10-26 17:24:41 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
.Sounds like you want this game to fail before it even gets released.

More like I'm being realistic about it. EVE is my third internet spaceship mmog. I was in EnB on launch day and I played SWG from the first live patch (it was a broken-fail launch and w/o JtLS as they rewrote it) to the NGE launch when they took away all my faction-war bases.

This sub-genre demands conflict. That is not a personal opinion, it's just historic. When conflict is not there or it is removed, the game generally declines until it's shut down. Though my opinion is that it doesn't need forced pvp, but it does need something that works very well and beyond tournaments or battlegrounds.

SWG did well when it had TEF (temporary enemy faction) and began the decline when that was removed. There were still opportunities, but once NGE came around those opportunities were removed and the game foundered. Later they introduced WoW style battlegrounds but it didn't bring back subscribers or draw out millions of WoW players to play SWG which had been the gamble since the NGE; not opinion, NGE launch discussion by SOE/LA on forums was clear they were after different players, not us vets. Happy vets draw in new players, not marketing schemes.

EnB was essentially WoW in space (pre-WoW), cuter than those youtube videos I linked. All they did was to later set up combat arenas which was a bad idea as kids would sit at the ent in normal space and crap all over the chat channel trying to get others to pvp. EnB was fluffy fun, but once you lvled up to the cap, the game was over. PvP is end-game, not poop-socking. Poop-sockers play elves and fairies, not spaceship pilots.


tl;dr post/thread
1. Poor choice of engine for an mmo. At launch only the niche of the niche will be able to experience the game, and many that buy in now will be disappointed in their frame rates. These are really bad economic times, and may get worse, players may not run out to buy a new system just for a game. I don't like WoW gameplay, but it solidly proved that low-spec is a winning formula for an mmo.

2. Traditionally this sub-genre (sci-fi internet spaceships) demands conflict and with better than AI conflict, while games that didn't have solid pvp or removed solid pvp, declined and went out of business.



Err... it will have PVP, just that it won't be easy or the most profitable thing in the game most of the time, wich is exactly what it should be, wich is why i mentioned EVE in the early days and if you lost your ship, you'd be busted down to the newb ship for a couple of weeks, working to buy something a little better for PVP.


EVE back then was as hardcore as it gets...It's much easier today given the means to generate a lot of isk quickly, and train skills a lot faster.


And yes, the game engine he uses meant to push the limit on what PC's can do, just like every game he's ever made in the past and it didn't stop them being successfull anyhow, and it's about time that people see how much far above PC's are over the current consoles to be honest, wich are 6~7 years old technology wise and that's enourmous when it comes to hardware.



The normal way : player thinks, i can,t play the new games ,it is time to buy me a new pc

EvE community way : CCP thinks ,we want to move on ,but we have to wait a few years ,until 99,9999 percent of the community has a new rig

R.S.I2014

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#132 - 2012-10-28 03:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:



The normal way : player thinks, i can,t play the new games ,it is time to buy me a new pc

EvE community way : CCP thinks ,we want to move on ,but we have to wait a few years ,until 99,9999 percent of the community has a new rig




Pretty accurate way of describing it right there without a doubt.....I used to upgrade my PC when new demanding titles were released a long time ago, but with the consoles having taken over and most of the time we are playing console ports on our PC's, i haven't had a need to upgrade my PC for gaming in a long time.


It doesn't matter if the latest PC's are 15~20 times faster than consoles released 7 years ago, publishers and developers go by the numbers and when there's 70 million X360's and about the same number of PS3's, they'll focus on those markets and the PC, no matter how powerfull or how much better the game would look, gets console ports with a few extra effects tacked on and they call it a day.


Btw, they've reached 2.3 million dollars and extended the pledge period to include the kickstarter one, so there's 22 days left to contribute......I can see it exceeding the 3 million mark quite easily wich will add more content and ships once the game is done in 2 years.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-10-28 07:11:00 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:



The normal way : player thinks, i can,t play the new games ,it is time to buy me a new pc

EvE community way : CCP thinks ,we want to move on ,but we have to wait a few years ,until 99,9999 percent of the community has a new rig




Pretty accurate way of describing it right there without a doubt.....I used to upgrade my PC when new demanding titles were released a long time ago, but with the consoles having taken over and most of the time we are playing console ports on our PC's, i haven't had a need to upgrade my PC for gaming in a long time.


It doesn't matter if the latest PC's are 15~20 times faster than consoles released 7 years ago, publishers and developers go by the numbers and when there's 70 million X360's and about the same number of PS3's, they'll focus on those markets and the PC, no matter how powerfull or how much better the game would look, gets console ports with a few extra effects tacked on and they call it a day.


Btw, they've reached 2.3 million dollars and extended the pledge period to include the kickstarter one, so there's 22 days left to contribute......I can see it exceeding the 3 million mark quite easily wich will add more content and ships once the game is done in 2 years.




Indeed ,the devolepement of pc games stagnated a lot ,the last years.
But with the new crysis gameengine ,maybe it will change a little bit in favour of PC games

and besides for me personaly ,i buy me every 2 or 3 years a new rig ,that seems to be just right to be able to play the newest games every time.
But that is what i can do,i understand that some people are not able to do the same

R.S.I2014

Ranzabar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-10-31 00:33:43 UTC
Dray wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
These will surely kill Eve like Star Trek online did

Well, we're talking Chris Roberts here ... and this guy isn't just a typical guy ...
It's ******* CHRIS ROBERTS and i admit that i am a fanboy ! *lol*


You'll forgive me if I don't rush out to suck his **** before the games are even out and they prove to be good?



Never stopped you before........

THATS RIGHT I WENT THERE.

Joking aside I've played this game since beta and the "Eve killers" came and went and none came close. I doubt Squadron 42 will be any different, the genre might be the same but the games will be different.

Only thing in my mind that could kill Eve is a monumental f**k up from CCP, they've tried as well but failed like the rest.



They almost did themselves with the release of Captains Quarters

Abide

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#135 - 2012-10-31 02:13:50 UTC
Ranzabar wrote:



They almost did themselves with the release of Captains Quarters



We still have to see if Dust 514 fares any better, and justifies the last few years of it's development in terms of investment return.


I'm a PC gamer thru and thru, and the last console i bought was a sega genesis 16bit when i was a teenager...P
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#136 - 2012-10-31 03:41:45 UTC
Wow, is everyone here really that dense. Do y'all not know the history of space flight games in general? If it wasn't for Chris Roberts, we wouldn't have a space flight genre. Hell, EVE would not exist if it was not for Chris Roberts. There are a few vets here that say they have been playing EVE since beta. Whoopty freakin do! Try playing space genres since the early 90s. Then get hyped up about EVE and then realize its crap and nothing of what you were wanting. When you finally attempt to play eve again, it takes you 4 trials over 6 years to finally pay for the first month. Not because of the learning curve, but because it is soo boring. I want to fly ships, not point and click "rock, paper, scissors". Yes, I finally actually started playing again and frankly, it still sucks. Yeah I said it. EVE sucks! The only reason why i am playing now is because it is not WoW. When Star Citizen comes out, I will leave EVE for good.

And no, you can not have my stuff because I am going to jet it all and destroy every last bit of it. If you want something worth while, quit asking for hand outs.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#137 - 2012-10-31 18:30:16 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Wow, is everyone here really that dense. Do y'all not know the history of space flight games in general? If it wasn't for Chris Roberts, we wouldn't have a space flight genre. Hell, EVE would not exist if it was not for Chris Roberts. There are a few vets here that say they have been playing EVE since beta. Whoopty freakin do! Try playing space genres since the early 90s. Then get hyped up about EVE and then realize its crap and nothing of what you were wanting. When you finally attempt to play eve again, it takes you 4 trials over 6 years to finally pay for the first month. Not because of the learning curve, but because it is soo boring. I want to fly ships, not point and click "rock, paper, scissors". Yes, I finally actually started playing again and frankly, it still sucks. Yeah I said it. EVE sucks! The only reason why i am playing now is because it is not WoW. When Star Citizen comes out, I will leave EVE for good.

And no, you can not have my stuff because I am going to jet it all and destroy every last bit of it. If you want something worth while, quit asking for hand outs.




I actually played freelancer and starlancer(chris roberts games as you know) and the independence war series, and loved all 3 for their joystick control and full neutonian physics for all the ships.....It was a lot of practice to really control ships to their full potential, but once you mastered it, it was a riot flying ships....


In other news, they've almost reached 2.5 million and there's still 19 days to go till the fundraising ends, so i think they'll break the 3 million mark easy...Big smile
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#138 - 2012-11-06 06:29:33 UTC
Thread Necromancy!!! Hazzah!!!

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#139 - 2012-11-06 11:54:52 UTC
So long as they turn off the damn lens effects, or I can turn off the damn lens effects, I think it might be something I will try.

Developers:

Lens flares are pointless and stupid - my eyes are not a film camera and cannot get lens flares, barrel distortions, chromatic aberration, lens speckles of dust or anything else that can only be reproduced with an actual film camera.


Fuckin' stop using it!



This space for rent.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#140 - 2012-11-06 16:41:20 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:




Heh, they're about to reach a combined total of 3 million and there's still 13 days to go on the funding......Almost 40 000 people contributed so far...Big smile