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The only Volatility that is likely to happen is that PI goods will be in short supply for a short time, making them more valuable. Not a bad thing in this example.

Rockets are not desirable, but would suffice in a pinch during the short time between patch day and your new PCO coming online. The smart PI industrialist will time his collections appropriately to minimize time without a PCO. I have also already suggested that CCP should consider upping the payload on rockets.

Since we were talking about about replacing the CPO with one they built themselves I would say there are few things in life more certain than what they will charge themselves in taxes.

I do not agree with you.

In low-sec, yes, maybe some corporations will specialized themselves by "renting" CO, but in WH and Null-Sec, corporations will lock the planet to themselves. Don't forget planet has a depletion system, less people on the planet, more resourcs to take.

You have stats we don't have, but have a look to the docking rights from null-sec station. I'm quite sure, if your are not blue with owner, in the most case you can't dock ! Will be exactely the same with CO.

Is ok for me with this, but if you made your "brainstorming" thinking what you said, i think you took it wrong.

(sorry, english is not my native langage)

That does not answer the issue of PI clusters built without having the command centers being a part of the communications links. What can be done to allow us to fix those things (since Command Centers can't be moved) so that at least SOME PI can still be used without the new Customs centers in place?

I am an independent ninja pi player in low-sec. 72 planets across 4 accounts. 6 months to train pi to max and cloaky hauler across all toons. 30M-40M per 33 days (10k m3 of p2 material) for each pi load.

The instability of destructible custom offices is not good.
I will drain as much until the change and then move to high-sec.

Even with negotiating access with a strong local power is not worthwhile when I forecast yields on a monthly timespan and buildings can be destroyed so easily.

As it stands now, the 25k m3 storage gives me close to 3 months to harvest the pi in my cloaky haulers. Allowing me to pick slow times to ninja the goods out.

To move to a new area and setup fully upgraded command centers is a time sink and an isk sink. To recover from the isk sink of upgrade costs is about three-quarters of a month's yield.

Do I like the proposed changes? no.

I will adapt.

The price of the PI products will probably raise up, go back down and end up almost the same price as before + the high side of the average taxation on CO. People who have planets with lower tax will make more of a profit. It'll be interesting to see what the average price of these goods will be, after things settle back down.

I'm interested to see if the prices of PI products at the major trade hubs have already gone up with people buying heaps in advance?

CCP Omen,

Wouldn't it make more sense to simply make the existing Low Sec, 0.0, and WH Custom's Offices destructible (even very easily destructible) instead of just wiping them?

Was there a reason for doing it this way than allowing the community to take them over but leave infastructure in place, until a planet's custom's office is taken over or simply destroyed?



**Not to mention that I hope you'll give us an event out of this with symaltanious explosions in system at a specific time eh?**

1. The risk to reward won't be right in low sec.
2. I would support bigger rockets as a possible alternative in low sec. Again, just get the risk/reward right, this proposal doesn't.
3 :-)
4. OK, WH it doesn't make much sense either. WH should be like nul sec however this gets implemented.
5. More folks seem to about the starving other folk as compared to the income. The nature of Eve.
6. I am OK with PI getting more challenging. This proposal is not the way to make that happen.

So one other thing that this causes, a whole new class of necro structures, these things need to die on thier own if their owners don't visit them. We have all seen the dead corp POSs on moons. These will be a new type of "ghosts of dead corps" things to litter space that will need to be blown up to clear planets that they park on.

So to be clear parts of what this idea intends to accomplish make sense, but the low sec part as proposed makes no sense to me.

Issler

Suggestion: Include a Corporate Customs Hangar that can be used by anyone with the proper roles (same as POS hangars, etc.)

2. Why would I not put a PCO up for public use? Errm, because I want the resources on the planet for myself and my corp alliance. To keep others out of the system? You say you have were involved with decisions about renting systems to others. So you understand why people would want only blues in the system I presume. You also miss the point of the new PCO.... it is to compromise your security if you own a PCO. It can be attacked. If your doing PI, there is no reason a owner of a PCO couldn't lock you out of your resources whenever they felt like it. Your only response is to move to another planet, or attack the PCO.

If you had no use for the planet yourself, why are you trying to put a PCO on it?? The income from the taxes is pretty poor compared to the risk and expense of installing and protecting one.

Multiple income streams is good. You assume that running a PCO will be profitable. If your PCO gets blown up every few months, it's not profitable based on the numbers we have so far. This uses 100% tax rate. Your payback can be years if you have a low tax rate.


Ranger 1 also stated that someone doing PI would bring in a cloaky transport. He also stated that a pirates will put up PCO's to encourage more targets to enter the area. Cloaky transports are pretty hard to catch in low sec. So you desire people to camp a PCO to catch them? I suppose that could be done, but I have yet to see a camp around a CO after months of doing PI. You think gate camps are boring.... just wait til you start doing CO camps. I'm in and out of a CO in 3 seconds, and there is no flashy gate to let you know I'm coming. I can even make a tactical warp in spot a few hundred km off the PCO and a dscan its very easy to tell if you are waiting for me.

The problem Ranger, is that all the numbers we have now indicate that it will be a VERY long time to recoup your money with taxes (months to years), assuming that your PCO doesnt get blown up, ever. Yes, you can defend the PCO, but if you loose a couple T1 BC ships, which is likely in a fight, you just cost yourself more to defend the PCO than it is worth.


The fundamental problem with this whole plan is economics.

Most of Eve is centered around the idea, that if you specialize in something - industry, research, some type of ships, hauling, whatever, you can increase your income as your skills improve in that area. You top out in 3.5months with a basic character, no implants or remaps, with PI. You are limited to 6 planets, and the income that those planets can produce. The more people that use that planet, the more you fight with depletion. There is a limit as to how much you can get from taxes, simply because the planet only has so much in resources to extract.

It would cost 80-100 million for a PCO. At 100% taxes, you need to tax 13,333 robotics to recoup your costs. Thats over 4000 hours of production for a single facility. I would suspect that you earn less for lower tier products. It make importing to a low/null sec system senseless. You have a high sec production planet, and haul stuff, like toxic metals and such to it, import it to the high sec planet, and you avoid the taxes from a low sec PCO owner.

I checked some of my planets. I am 4 jumps from Hek, on a planet in low sec with 80% resource strength. I am the only one on the planet, unless the show others networks thing doesn't work. Even at 100% tax, it will take you literally years to recoup the cost of the PCO with just me using it. The economics of having a PCO make it senseless to have a PCO.

I agree with almost all of this... Except for the shooting at them part. I can see folks shooting at them just for fun.