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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

First post First post
Author
Lieam Thellere
The CodeX Alliance Executive Holdings Corporation
The CodeX Alliance
#1101 - 2012-10-23 13:56:09 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Ghostwarden wrote:
To your first point. I don't think that the intended goal of CCP is to make High-Sec safer with the kill rights changes. I think that they are trying to find a way for High-Sec Care Bears a means fight back without stooping to the same tactics that the gankers use. I think they want this to happen for two reasons. One, most of the care bears don't want to take a security hit to fight back. Two, I think that they are also trying to find a way to encourage the care bears to get into PVP.

I think that it's their intended goal, but they're just executing it poorly. Lack of foresight is not uncommon on CCP's part.

Also, how is toggling a switch that makes a player FFA a "means of fighting back"? Fighting back implies you're doing something instead of just pressing a button and watching someone else do it. At the very least, it should be a focused mercenary action, and not an FFA switch. Having to interact with someone before your target is hunted I could buy as "fighting back," but not the way things are currently planned.

Carebears don't want to fight back; that's why they're carebears. Carebears aren't the miners, traders, and industrialists. Carebears are players who want nonconsensual player interaction to be removed from the game. Doing pve activities simply falls in line with their attitudes. And CCP is pandering to them.


It's "fighting back" by hiring someone to do the combat. And no, they don't "want {PvP} removed from the game." Hyperbole like that isn't helping your argument. They just don't intend on initiating PvP or going into sectors where PvP is pretty much guaranteed. These are the people mining, trading and producing via industry. That's what they enjoy, rather than hunting down other PCs.
Joseph SaintJohn
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1102 - 2012-10-23 15:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Joseph SaintJohn
I still don't see how "Bounty Hunter" can be a viable "career" if your secutity status is lowered if you hunt and kill someone with a bounty on them in hi-sec. or low- sec ?

Perhaps a system similar to "faction warfare" that you could join... call it "Bounty Hunter" with rules that allow locating and killing without a loss in security status.

A "Bounty Hunter" group a player could join... like a militia in fation warfare, that sounds like an actual career choice.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1103 - 2012-10-23 16:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Lieam Thellere wrote:
It's "fighting back" by hiring someone to do the combat. And no, they don't "want {PvP} removed from the game." Hyperbole like that isn't helping your argument. They just don't intend on initiating PvP or going into sectors where PvP is pretty much guaranteed. These are the people mining, trading and producing via industry. That's what they enjoy, rather than hunting down other PCs.

They don't need to hire anyone, in fact the crimewatch 2.0 and killright mechanics actively incentivize the carebears to never pay anyone for killing anyone else. If someone steals anything, everyone can shoot at him. If someone does anything offensively so they get criminal flagged, they can be shot by everyone, and the guy who's shot at, webbed etc get a killright, which in turn translates to potentially 30 days of constant threat of repeated surprise suspect status, either by the owner of the killright or by someone buying the right to activate suspect status.

At no point are there any incentives whatsoever here for paying anyone anything, it's all about making sure everyone who do anything to the ~precious carebears~ are punished.

We've said multiple times, in this thread, that if they actually wanted to fix bountyhunting, they would let the ganked carebears sell the killrights to a guy or a corp (actually we did say sell, we should say hire, it doesn't really make any sense that bountyhunters pay to be allowed to hunt someone, they should get paid to do the job for someone instead), but CCP's responses have made it abundantly clear that they are not, in any way, shape or form in any mood at all to try to fix bountyhunting in this release, and I have doubts they will ever get to the point where being a bountyhunter is an actual, proper profession.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Sinooko
Tharumec
Gespenster Kompanie
#1104 - 2012-10-23 18:16:11 UTC
I don't know if this has been brought up yet, there are 56 pages to dig through.

If someone lays a bounty on an alliance or corporation and they all disband will the bounty follow those players?

I recommend a system where if a bounty is placed on an alliance, and the alliance disbands then the bounty is dispersed to all members.

This could be problematic if half the members are alts, but you can only have so many alts per account and if someone recycles a toon with a bounty on it, it would be fair to have that bounty disperses among the remaining characters on the account. Just like that suicide gankers have to pay for their actions. Two birds with one stone. It's not a perfect system, but if someone's been a real bad boy they will be inundated with bounties.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#1105 - 2012-10-23 19:20:23 UTC
Individual players with both a bounty and negative security status need to be attack-able in hisec by bounty hunters for this to be a meaningful profession and game mechanic. Fiddling around the edges of the mechanic is meaningless if you still have to go to losec or null to aggro and claim your bounty...adding corp or alliance bounties is meh, without ability to aggro in hisec the bountied players

Lots of ways to implement this, like making a bountied (and negative-sec status) player a perpetual 'suspect' in the new crimewatch mechanic, until their bounty hits zero or their sec status reaches zero or above.

Now you could fine tune it so that they would need a -2 or -5 or lower sec status in addition to a bounty for this to trigger, but key is that they are attackable in hisec.

Done.
Ghostwarden
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1106 - 2012-10-23 19:31:11 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Also, how is toggling a switch that makes a player FFA a "means of fighting back"? Fighting back implies you're doing something instead of just pressing a button and watching someone else do it. At the very least, it should be a focused mercenary action, and not an FFA switch. Having to interact with someone before your target is hunted I could buy as "fighting back," but not the way things are currently planned.


It's been my experience talking with a lot of players over the years that they did not want to get into PVP because they found it intimidating. Gakners will always try to come with their A game and if they are any good they will. They find people that either can't or don't know how to fight back and they stack the odds(or that don't understand the mechanics well enough). Frankly there is an element of the player base where this is true. Now, they have the time to gather their resources and friends and then they can stalk the offender and trigger the FFA when its the most advantageous to them thus allowing them a means of fighting back. It gives them a way to get into PVP. Now if it works or not is another thing altogether.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Carebears don't want to fight back; that's why they're carebears. Carebears aren't the miners, traders, and industrialists. Carebears are players who want nonconsensual player interaction to be removed from the game. Doing pve activities simply falls in line with their attitudes. And CCP is pandering to them.


As I said above, some players never get into PVP because they feel intimidated by it. There are a number of reasons for this. These players wind up in the ranks of the Carebears. It doesn't necessarily mean that they don't ever want to PVP. In my opinion your argument here is a little short sited.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:

How will it make things more difficult for my pirate alt, which can already be shot by anyone, anywhere, at any time? No, I'm serious, I want to know. People keep giving this argument, but don't say anything to back it up. How will it be more dangerous for an outlaw?


Your correct, your pirate alt can be shot at by anyone, anywhere, at any time, but frankly how many actually do? If these changes do get more people involved in PVP (and I'm not say that it will) thats just that many more people that are available to shoot at you (and for you to shoot at) and that would make make space more dangerous. At least in my opinion it would.
Lieam Thellere
The CodeX Alliance Executive Holdings Corporation
The CodeX Alliance
#1107 - 2012-10-23 19:41:12 UTC
Quote:
At no point are there any incentives whatsoever here for paying anyone anything, it's all about making sure everyone who do anything to the ~precious carebears~ are punished.


Ah, you just don't like PvE'ers. Gotcha.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1108 - 2012-10-23 20:18:10 UTC
Lieam Thellere wrote:
Quote:
At no point are there any incentives whatsoever here for paying anyone anything, it's all about making sure everyone who do anything to the ~precious carebears~ are punished.


Ah, you just don't like PvE'ers. Gotcha.

That's funny, it's almost like you've got a need to see a bias and can't possibly think I'd do any carebear stuff myself.

I mean, I can't possibly be spending the majority of my time on my hisec char, in either a freighter or an orca. That would just be ludicrous. I mean, I'm a nullsec char, so I must of course be eating babies, raw, for fun.

(In case you're unable to see the sarchasm before you fall in it, you're being pretty dumb.)

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lieam Thellere
The CodeX Alliance Executive Holdings Corporation
The CodeX Alliance
#1109 - 2012-10-23 20:23:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Lieam Thellere wrote:
Quote:
At no point are there any incentives whatsoever here for paying anyone anything, it's all about making sure everyone who do anything to the ~precious carebears~ are punished.


Ah, you just don't like PvE'ers. Gotcha.

That's funny, it's almost like you've got a need to see a bias and can't possibly think I'd do any carebear stuff myself.

I mean, I can't possibly be spending the majority of my time on my hisec char, in either a freighter or an orca. That would just be ludicrous. I mean, I'm a nullsec char, so I must of course be eating babies, raw, for fun.

(In case you're unable to see the sarchasm before you fall in it, you're being pretty dumb.)


Then why the "~precious carebears~" ****? It certainly sounds like you want nothing to do with PvErs.

(Oh, and it's spelled 'sarcasm.')
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1110 - 2012-10-23 20:46:21 UTC
Lieam Thellere wrote:
Then why the "~precious carebears~" ****? It certainly sounds like you want nothing to do with PvErs.

Because people like you get your knickers in a twist and completely miss the point of the rest of the post. Honestly, it never fails.

Lieam Thellere wrote:
(Oh, and it's spelled 'sarcasm.')

Too late, you just fell in.

(Hint: I spelled it that way on purpose. Visit http://sarchasm.net/ if you're unclear on its meaning.)

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lieam Thellere
The CodeX Alliance Executive Holdings Corporation
The CodeX Alliance
#1111 - 2012-10-24 00:06:55 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Lieam Thellere wrote:
Then why the "~precious carebears~" ****? It certainly sounds like you want nothing to do with PvErs.

Because people like you get your knickers in a twist and completely miss the point of the rest of the post. Honestly, it never fails.

Lieam Thellere wrote:
(Oh, and it's spelled 'sarcasm.')

Too late, you just fell in.

(Hint: I spelled it that way on purpose. Visit http://sarchasm.net/ if you're unclear on its meaning.)


So, trolling then. Gotcha.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1112 - 2012-10-24 00:21:19 UTC
Lieam Thellere wrote:
So, trolling then. Gotcha.

I love how people like you will take any excuse possible to completely dismiss a post which isn't saying exactly what you want.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#1113 - 2012-10-24 08:40:15 UTC
has there been any word on what will occur when a character is sold to another player? will bounties be refunded? will the buyer inherit the bounties?

i searched for bounty refund but only found 1 post that was unrelated.

You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,  this is your final warning.

Sedilis
Lead Farmers
#1114 - 2012-10-24 10:37:53 UTC
This sounds like a fantastic system.

Even though I'm probably screwed when this goes live Twisted
TWHC Assistant
#1115 - 2012-10-24 12:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: TWHC Assistant
Sinooko wrote:
I don't know if this has been brought up yet, there are 56 pages to dig through.

If someone lays a bounty on an alliance or corporation and they all disband will the bounty follow those players?

I recommend a system where if a bounty is placed on an alliance, and the alliance disbands then the bounty is dispersed to all members.

This could be problematic if half the members are alts, but you can only have so many alts per account and if someone recycles a toon with a bounty on it, it would be fair to have that bounty disperses among the remaining characters on the account. Just like that suicide gankers have to pay for their actions. Two birds with one stone. It's not a perfect system, but if someone's been a real bad boy they will be inundated with bounties.

Afaik will bounties on alliances and corporations be returned to you once they disband/close. Having bounties automatically divided and distributed onto the members may not be what everybody would want. The way it is going to be implemented allows you to place the bounty again on whoever you want to place it on then, or you might find a better use for the ISKs at that point and be glad that it wasn't divided.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1116 - 2012-10-24 13:14:06 UTC
You guys should log in to Duality on Friday (and over the weekend) and hang out with some Super Friends and try out the bounty system!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1117 - 2012-10-24 14:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
CCP Punkturis wrote:
You guys should log in to Duality on Friday (and over the weekend) and hang out with some Super Friends and try out the bounty system!


but this weekend is Halloween?!??!?!?

can we get pumpkin launchers?

edit:

you guys going to add some hamsters to duality? cuss testing the NPC AI was a hassle last weekend due to massive lag...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1118 - 2012-10-24 14:16:34 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
You guys should log in to Duality on Friday (and over the weekend) and hang out with some Super Friends and try out the bounty system!


but this weekend is Halloween?!??!?!?

can we get pumpkin launchers?

edit:

you guys going to add some hamsters to duality? cuss testing the NPC AI was a hassle last weekend due to massive lag...


all characters will be wearing some random costume and everybody will be flying brooms instead of spaceshipsBlink

I think they've been trying to pimp the server, I hope it's enough

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1119 - 2012-10-24 14:46:29 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
You guys should log in to Duality on Friday (and over the weekend) and hang out with some Super Friends and try out the bounty system!


but this weekend is Halloween?!??!?!?

can we get pumpkin launchers?

edit:

you guys going to add some hamsters to duality? cuss testing the NPC AI was a hassle last weekend due to massive lag...


all characters will be wearing some random costume and everybody will be flying brooms instead of spaceshipsBlink

I think they've been trying to pimp the server, I hope it's enough


jita monument turns into a huge pumpkin?

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1120 - 2012-10-24 15:12:21 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
You guys should log in to Duality on Friday (and over the weekend) and hang out with some Super Friends and try out the bounty system!


but this weekend is Halloween?!??!?!?

can we get pumpkin launchers?

edit:

you guys going to add some hamsters to duality? cuss testing the NPC AI was a hassle last weekend due to massive lag...


all characters will be wearing some random costume and everybody will be flying brooms instead of spaceshipsBlink

I think they've been trying to pimp the server, I hope it's enough


jita monument turns into a huge pumpkin?

LolLolLol

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis