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Drone Management Question: Aggressive and Passive Setting Mechanics

Author
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2012-10-22 14:59:16 UTC
Doddy wrote:
James Bolivar DeGriz wrote:
At one time I was told to turn my drones to passive so they would not attack can flippers.

Is this BS then?


Yep, bs.

While it is BS, this sort of originated from some people wrongly aggressing can flippers (in belts) or ninja salvagers (in missions), "because they were red", and then blaming it on their drones. Having them on passive explicitly puts the responsibility for making poor choices on the pilot's shoulders.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#22 - 2012-10-23 00:58:27 UTC
Three things to add:

1) Drone control range is the limit in which you can issue an attack order, but not the real limit for drones to continue attacking. This is important when kiting enemies. If, for instance, your control range is 30km you can approach to within 30km, send you drones to attack, and then move back out to 40km or more and your drones will continue attacking that target until it is dead or you recall them.

2) In addition to the above, drones will continue their last attack order even if you lose target lock on a foe. This is one of the things that makes drones good for dealing with e-war foes, especially when in aggressive mode. When aggressive, drones will attack enemies even if your own ship has been completely jammed. Likewise, enemy weapon disruptors hitting your own ship has no effect on your drones' range or accuracy.

3) Any warping will disconnect your drones, even if you stay within the same dungeon er I mean "deadspace" area. For example, if an enemy is 160km away (for whatever reason) and you decided to warp up to him, your drones will be left behind and get disconnected to boot.

Bonus Tip: When facing large numbers of enemy frigates and using light drones to deal with them, it is often good to split your drones up. Five frigates with one drone apiece works perfectly. It may seem strange to be splitting your fire like that, but here's the thing: If you sick all five on one frigate, the one frigate getting swarmed will be unlikely able to hit your drones, but the other four will have good shots on them (there is math to this and I'm not going to try to explain it). But if each frigate has a drone up in their face, they'll likely all get stuck trying to shoot at their own little problems rather than use any sort of teamwork. The end result is that most likely none of your drones will get damaged in the process.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Jesuis Cache-Cache
#23 - 2012-10-23 01:15:24 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
When facing large numbers of enemy frigates and using light drones to deal with them, it is often good to split your drones up.
That makes good strategic sense. However, I am 3 days out from using my drones again. So, how do you "split" them up?

I thought they all attacked the same target anyway. I mean, this is great news, but how does one do that exactly?

Thank you for a great post.

- JCC





.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#24 - 2012-10-23 12:30:28 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
When facing large numbers of enemy frigates and using light drones to deal with them, it is often good to split your drones up.
That makes good strategic sense. However, I am 3 days out from using my drones again. So, how do you "split" them up?

I thought they all attacked the same target anyway. I mean, this is great news, but how does one do that exactly?

Thank you for a great post.

- JCC


You can give individual drones an order by right-clicking on the drone in the list of "Drones... in... Scaaaaaace!!!!"
(*cough* sorry, couldn't help myself)

Anyway there will be an option that reads "Engage Target" this will cause the drone to attack the current selection of your target locks.

You can also use this to give orders to a group of drones provided they are selected together. The list works the same as other inventories in the game so you can hold Ctrl to select multiple items or hold Shift to select all items between the two items clicked. One caveat though, you will also trigger your ships targeting system if you hold Ctrl and click of the drone in the list. Use the Shift method to avoid this.

Alternately you could open the drone control settings and deselect the option for the drones to "Focus Fire". This will make them individually select targets so the effect could be that they each target separate enemies.

The drawback of this strategy is the micro-management needed. One cant just launch the drones and let them go at it. Then again the upcoming changes to the AI system may necessitate a little more micro-management to keep your drones alive.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#25 - 2012-10-25 03:51:38 UTC
Two Bonus Tips:

Tip One:Use the right drone for the job. Lighter drones do less damage on paper, but in reality they can often be more useful than heavier drones. As with all things in EvE, bigger is not always better. Speed, maneuvering & accuracy all come into play and drones are no exception. So it's not just "moar dps!" because DPS is entirely dependent on the ability to actually hit the target.

This means that for enemy frigates, you'll want to use light drones. Why? Because enemy frigates are the fastest foes and lights are your fastest drones. If you send heavies against enemy frigates you'll just end up looking at a sad comedy that bears a strong resemblance to FW. Namely, a speedy little frigate laughing as everything you're throwing at him sucks his exhaust because they can't even catch up to him. The higher speed also means that they can switch targets quickly and zip across vast distances with ease. And although they have the fewest hit points, their sheer speed means that they're the least likely to actually get hit. This is important because frigates and destroyers are the enemies most likely to shoot back at your drones, which makes sense because they have the highest tracking. Also you will want to make destroyers a priority target over frigates for this same reason - they're the biggest threat to your drones in general, so always take them out first thing.

For cruisers and battle cruisers you will want to use your medium drones. You can get away with using mediums on enemy battleships if you have the skills and patience (I've taken down 1,000,000 ISK bounty ships with medium drones... but it takes a while). Their speed isn't as good, but that's okay because these larger targets generally have less tracking and will have trouble hitting your drones except during the flat vectors directly towards and away from them.

The only time you'll really need to bring heavy drones is when taking down battleships and large structures, and by that point many people will debate whether or not you should just be using sentries by that point. Personally, I'm going to dodge that debate and just say use whatever your personal taste likes more. Ships like these have crap for tracking, which is good because heavy drones are all DPS but slow as slugs - easy targets for anything smaller than a battleship.

Tip Two:T2 is not always better. First, consider the cost vs risk factor. Yes, T2 has the best DPS, but do you really need it? Yes, you want it, but do you need it? Considering the cost of T2 drones, especially for a new player who lacks deep pockets, the cost of replacing them is something that you'll want to consider - at least until you start getting a good steady income. Replacing even a single T2 drone can cost more than you'll make from most non-level 4 missions entirely, so losing one is a lot more tragic than the dollar-store T1 drones that cost practically nothing.

But if you've got the money, you'll always want T2 right? Not so! If you want to throw money around you may want to look into Navy drones. Now many people say that Navy drones are just for people who have money but don't have the skills for T2. I beg to differ. T2 drones have slightly higher DPS than their Navy counterparts, this much is true. They're also a tiny bit faster on average as well. However, if you compare them side by side you will notice that Navy drones have somewhat better tracking, which means that they hit more often, which in turn balances out against the on-paper higher DPS of T2 drones.

They also have (and this is important) twice the hit points of T2 drones. That's twice the shields, twice the armor, etc. That makes a heck of difference when the enemy decides to aggro your drones (and the new changes coming up will make that happen a lot more often, too). If you've ever recalled a damaged drone only to have it die two seconds before making it back to your docking bay, remember that a Navy drone would have made it and probably with half it's armor still left. Now factor in the cost of T2 drones and the Navy drones start to look like a good investment after all, because while they are very expensive to buy, in the long run you won't be wasting as much money buying replacements. The Navy drones are really, really hard for the bad guys to actually kill.

In practice, I generally keep a flight of light Navy drones and use T2 for medium on up. I find this to be a good combination, and here is why: It is usually the enemy frigates & destroyers that do most of the aggro against your drones, and lights have the least hit points. By using Navy drones I compensate for this weakness and thus get light drones that don't die in one shot. While the DPS is a little lower than T2, since I'm just fighting frigates & destroyers then DPS isn't really a major concern (since they don't many hit points themselves). So for light drones and their foes, I find Navy works best. It's when I move up to medium drones and beyond that I switch to T2, because those I use on enemies that don't have as much tracking but lots more hit points, so it is at this point that more DPS starts becoming worth the trade in durability.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Jesuis Cache-Cache
#26 - 2012-10-25 05:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
@ San Fran :

Thank you for the great explanation of separation. I will be using that for sure.


@ Katran :

Yet another amazing post!Attention Very informative and much appreciated. I had been throwing around the thought of TIP 1 already.

I have been in my Vexor for a few days now, but have only taken it out once. That was on an L1 Security mission to test them out. Sadly, one did not return.Sad However, I am currently training up my Drone skills and planning to get into the need for speed mode.

I have yet to venture out since reading your previous post but I'm looking forward to getting out with some Navy Drones now. I was waiting for my skills to get me use of T2s but that has changed.

My wallet is rather fat due to the steady income from my Alt Trader. So I'll be investing in some Navies in a day or so. I just bought 10 Cheetahs for my Second account character, who is currently my Buyer / Hauler. So, I need to spend the next couple of days rebuilding that purse a little.

She has a lot of down time so she will be my Recon pilot and then my main will actually hit the sites...with Navies!

And Hobgoblin IIs and Hammerhead IIs...P

Thank you all for some very award winning input.

- JCC


EDIT :

OK! I give up! * rubs face with both hands*

Where do you get Navy Drones? P I seen another thread but they were all talking in code with BPC, LP and ......*exhale*

.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#27 - 2012-10-25 13:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: San Fransisco
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
@ San Fran :

Thank you for the great explanation of separation. I will be using that for sure.


@ Katran :

Yet another amazing post!Attention Very informative and much appreciated. I had been throwing around the thought of TIP 1 already.

I have been in my Vexor for a few days now, but have only taken it out once. That was on an L1 Security mission to test them out. Sadly, one did not return.Sad However, I am currently training up my Drone skills and planning to get into the need for speed mode.

I have yet to venture out since reading your previous post but I'm looking forward to getting out with some Navy Drones now. I was waiting for my skills to get me use of T2s but that has changed.

My wallet is rather fat due to the steady income from my Alt Trader. So I'll be investing in some Navies in a day or so. I just bought 10 Cheetahs for my Second account character, who is currently my Buyer / Hauler. So, I need to spend the next couple of days rebuilding that purse a little.

She has a lot of down time so she will be my Recon pilot and then my main will actually hit the sites...with Navies!

And Hobgoblin IIs and Hammerhead IIs...P

Thank you all for some very award winning input.

- JCC


EDIT :

OK! I give up! * rubs face with both hands*

Where do you get Navy Drones? P I seen another thread but they were all talking in code with BPC, LP and ......*exhale*

.


Aside from buying them on the market (They are in the Faction sub category) you could use loyalty points to buy them from one of these four NPC corps

24th Imperial Crusade
Federal Defence Union
State Protectorate
Tribal Liberation Force

I believe these are the factional warfare corps

EDIT:
... so I just checked EVE Central and it looks like they are unavailable. This could be because no-one is selling them but that seems unlikely.

I know for sure that you can get them from LP stores.
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#28 - 2012-10-26 01:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
San Fransisco wrote:


Aside from buying them on the market (They are in the Faction sub category) you could use loyalty points to buy them from one of these four NPC corps

24th Imperial Crusade
Federal Defence Union
State Protectorate
Tribal Liberation Force

I believe these are the factional warfare corps

EDIT:
... so I just checked EVE Central and it looks like they are unavailable. This could be because no-one is selling them but that seems unlikely.

I know for sure that you can get them from LP stores.

Ok. So, the LP stores are faction corps that only sell to corp members?

The LP is loyalty points?

I have briefly looked for more info on them, to very little effect. However, it seems that one must...

1 - Join a corp ( making it hard to enter other systems without being attacked because you are now sided with a faction that is in war)
2 - Complete a slew of missions ( taking years to completeP ) to acquire enough LPs to spend for the Navy Drones.

I am most likely way off in my assumptions..I usually am...None the less, that seems rather long winded to acquire a supply of drones.



EDIT : I did find a contract for a set of 5 Navy Hammerheads. However, it was for 25m....Shocked




.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#29 - 2012-10-26 06:31:33 UTC
Correct. FW drones won't show up on the market, only under contracts. They are only available as LP rewards from the FW LP stores, and those are only accessible to people who are enrolled in FW.

Luckily, there is no shortage of FW people who buy these drones and resell them via contracts at a profit. So to acquire navy drones one must either A) join a FW crop (player or NPC), do FW, earn LP and buy them from the FW LP store or B) pay someone else to do it for them via just buying them from contracts. Personally, I opt for the latter. Saves time and may actually save money since you're not risking any of your ships dying to FW.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Jesuis Cache-Cache
#30 - 2012-10-26 07:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
While I am all for the latter myself. How much is the average cost of these drones. So, I don't feel like I am throwing ISK out the airlock.

I understand that faction equipment is expensive, but are the Hammerheads actually run 25m a set?

And what of Hobgoblins?

EDIT :

Ah! ..nvmd I had the contract filtered to my current station and not all regions. I am an idiot....Roll

There are tons for sale on contract. It seems they go for around 5m ea. We are all fortunate in your presence. Thank you so much.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#31 - 2012-10-26 14:49:49 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
It seems they go for around 5m ea.

Dropping in to point out that, while faction drones require lower skills, T2 drones do more damage, are faster, and much cheaper (< 1 mil isk each for Hammerhead IIs). Plus, T2 drone skills aren't hard to get, and improve all your drone operation. I highly recommend them, both for saving money and for having more drone ability.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Jesuis Cache-Cache
#32 - 2012-10-26 15:59:32 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
It seems they go for around 5m ea.

Dropping in to point out that, while faction drones require lower skills, T2 drones do more damage, are faster, and much cheaper (< 1 mil isk each for Hammerhead IIs). Plus, T2 drone skills aren't hard to get, and improve all your drone operation. I highly recommend them, both for saving money and for having more drone ability.

As a matter of fact, I am working on that very thing. Looking closly at the stats, I need my DPS up something awful. I got into my Vexor with two sets of 3ea. Hob I and Ham I. My DPS was 40...lol

I took it on a L1 security run and lost one of the Hobs. The rats took days to take out. I had no idea how to manage them either. That is why I lost the little guy.

So, I returned to the station and vowed not to come out until I had 100 DPS. I currently have it to 84 and should hit 100 in another 17 hrs.

This is still with T1s. I have all 5 Drones now and from this thread, I have a better sense of how to properly use them. Next wee I will be into the T2s and the week after I will be ready for lo sec after I get my Armor Repair up and tank my Vexor to break 6k hps and repairing close to 450 armor every cycle.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

Doddy
Excidium.
#33 - 2012-10-26 18:19:19 UTC
keep in mind that training drone interfacing wtfbbqs all other drone skills.
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#34 - 2012-10-26 22:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
Doddy wrote:
keep in mind that training drone interfacing wtfbbqs all other drone skills.
Is that English? I have no idea what you just said.

EDIT : Should I be concerned with not doing something right? As I am training that skill now. Actually I have all but one of the drone skill books. ShockedBig smile It seems to give an amazing boon to damage.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

Oraac Ensor
#35 - 2012-10-27 00:32:39 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Doddy wrote:
keep in mind that training drone interfacing wtfbbqs all other drone skills.
Is that English? I have no idea what you just said.

EDIT : Should I be concerned with not doing something right? As I am training that skill now. Actually I have all but one of the drone skill books. ShockedBig smile It seems to give an amazing boon to damage.

Wtf = what the ****. Bbq - think char-grilled burgers. Smile
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#36 - 2012-10-27 01:09:34 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:

Wtf = what the ****. Bbq - think char-grilled burgers. Smile
Ha! Well, at 20% increase in Drone damage I guess it does smoke them.

Thank you for decrypting the hieroglyphic message.P

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

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