EVE Information Portal

To all those who think this is a good idea....

It's being implemented by the same company who brought you monocles.

I don't know what goal CCP has in mind other then doing PI more affected by other players. If CCP find's it desirable to drive people to low/null sec, this does just the opposite.

I have read every post in this thread so far. Some good points on both sides. I'm seeing a decided turn to the negative from the first posts. As people digest this, I think more will be unhappy with it.

The price for everything will go up. The cost to make t2 stuff will go up to accommodate the increased cost of PI materials. The law of supply and demand then indicates that the demand for t2 stuff will do down, and hence T1 and meta 1-4 stuff would go up to fill the void.

I suspect that many POS's manufacture stuff, mine certainly does. The manufacturing queue in NPC stations will get longer because PI materials are a major fuel component of POSs. So T1 prices will rise, but mineral prices will stay about the same.

I don't think anyone will argue that this will increase prices atleast on PI materials and those things made with them. Those PvP'ers applauding this change don't realize that there is not a corresponding increase in bounties and PvE rewards. So to finance your PvP, you will be doing more PvE to pay for your PvP.

Has anyone seen a post that says this change inspires someone to go into PI? Lots of people think that this change makes PI too much of a PITA to bother with it would seem based on the posts I have seen. I think that any change to a game, should make the game more fun, more engaging. Based on the response from those who actually do PI, this is not a positive change.

Omen said in a post that they hope that corps will form whose purpose it is to protect COs. Is this like the hundreds of corps who exist to protect SOV and POS and such? I'm just not seeing big bucks from CO's, and you can replace the whole thing for 80mil (I recall that figure from someplace). You expect a corp to be interested in paying another corp to protect a 80m structure? Or a corp to be interested in protecting a structure for less than 80m? Just let the structure be blown up, replace it after blowing up the new corps CO and move on.

Has anyone at CCP done the math to figure out the payback on a CO? If your interest is to have battle around CO's the payback has to be fast enough to make it worthwhile replacing CO's. Lots and lots of materials need to be moved to make 80 million. At even 6000 ISK per robotics, assuming 100% tax, you need to move 13,333 units of robotics to pay for the CO. Can a planet even produce that in a month? I'm thinking, it makes no economic sense to put one up. The CO is not valuable enough to spend much protecting it, and it won't generate ISK fast enough to replace often. If the tax is less than 100%, the payback is even longer.

Omen also said that "If you introduce a structure, nature sort of demands that it can be destroyed." That makes sense, but the thought is not complete. If you introduce a structure, nature sort of demands that it can be destroyed, nature sort of demands that you be able to defend it. You can't raise a fleet fast enough to defend your CO. It's more structure bashing, which nobody is loving. If you allow guns to be put on CO's, why would they not be allowed to shoot any one who can't use the CO? If you cant use a low sec POS, the guns a probably configured to shoot you. Why would a CO be different?

Taking the "I own the CO" idea further, since I own it, would I not also have access to all the storage therein? I can see it now "low tax rate on my CO!! I won't steal your materials, I promise!!!"

I have seen nothing that indicates that there will be a change to the size of launching goods into space. I don't do it, but I really think that few people will allow someone else to use their CO at whatever tax rate. So the only option is launches. I also think that the economics would be that there is little payback to owning a CO for reasons stated above. So the new PI flow will be produce as many goods as you can on a planet, launch them, haul to high sec to a manufacturing planet to combine into higher tier products.

Does CCP really understand what effects this will have? Based on Omen's comments regarding CO in WH's and whether corps/alliances in null sec would allow the general public to use their CO's, and his misconceptions about the effects on small corps, I would say CCP is clueless, as they were in the monocle fiasco.

This just screams to me that there is more and more incentive to get into large corps/alliances. It is a very negative change for small/medium corps.

I do think that that is a significant enough change that skill points in PI should be refunded. If people want to continue to do PI, they can spend those point in PI again.

I got off on a rant there, but I wanted to make an important point - How in the world would this put POS owners out of business?

I own and operate a POS, and I farm planets. I simply farm fuel, and put it in my POS. My goods never touch the market, I would imagine most savvy players would do the same - as every time you sell to the market and rebuy, someone else profits off you.

So, if my PI fuel goes from a nearby planet straight to the POS, the market fluctuations are of ZERO significance. I don't care whether coolant is 1,000 isk / unit or 1 million isk / unit, my POS keeps ticking regardless.

Maintaining access to my planets will be a greater challenge, but it wont be impossible. I welcome anything that brings more fights and involves more corpmates looking to pew. I refuse to sit back and whine about the change, I'll simply bust out whatever muscle it takes to make it work.

Worst case scenario, i lose access to planets and have to buy fuel. Big deal, i'll just factor it into the price of the goods produced at the POS, like any other businessman would do. Thats how it works. Life goes on...

CCP, you realize having taxes set on these things as a percent of some arbitrary value is kind of ridiculous, right? Since you're not tracking market value of the products, just let the CO owner set taxes as exact ISK/m3 instead of a %. I realize the end result is the same but there is something silly about a situation where the CO could be set to "100% tax" on a product whose arbitrary CCP value is 6000 isk, but whose actual market value is 50000 isk.

Just tax in isk per m3, not %.

They're starting to see what's going on here. The small producers should not be ignored (entirely) on this, CCP.

I live in wh space 100% I would take your name put on adress book and hunt you till you left my hole. WH corps dont share whs with single entities.

CCP omen, have you read all the views of the people who think this is a terribad idea? i know you ahve read teh views of teh ones that think is good.

can you tell us how your going to address the concerns of teh ones that think its bad?

Thanks Omen for all the answers in this thread, by the way.

We'll see how this will work. Taxes are probably a rather low income. If they are too high you will chase away customers. Without loot griefing will probably be not a huge issue, too, more so with COs staying operational in reinforced mode.
That's a lowsec perspective.

More likely, there was little or nothing they could do about it short of camping the CO 24/7 hoping to catch him in a trap. Likely not worth their time.

It's one thing to ignore the 'irritation' when it's more trouble to scratch than it's worth. Now they don't need to scratch.

From one side im glad about that change.
As a owner of 15 colonies i just stopped selling my stocks because i expect to PI material will rise in price until said change of custom offices will be deployed. That will make many other items rise in price in general. ( Most items are made on POSes) --> fuel will be more expensive than now.
Second thing, this is unofficial LOWSEC boost. If PI will go high enough more ppl will start doing it and there will be fights of custom ownership and more ppl in low means piracy will gain too.

From other side im worried bout that change.

This change in Custom offices puts on stake my 800 - 1B / month pure passive income in long term. I worried that ppl who will owners od customs will set tax to 100% just to keep PI materials prices as high as possible for long time.

Also WH players just gain nice opportunity to make billions without risk cuz noone will blow their customs. ( proice will raise dirasticly ). Its kinda unfair but meh...

Interesting change, looking forward to seeing its impacts on markets. One question, though I assume I know the answer, only one office per planet, yes?