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Moderation discussion thread

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Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#161 - 2012-10-22 09:32:57 UTC
I don't understand why a thread such as "Like and get likes" is allowed to exist, because it is completely without EVE content and 'off topic'.

The "Avatar above me" grabass threads have little to no EVE content, and as such should be locked.

In addition, the "avatar" threads are multiples of the same topic and should be consolidated. (ie, 4 or 5 of them should be locked for redundancy, and participants redirected to one thread.) And at the very least, they should be moved to a less important part of the forums.

Its mind boggling how these threads have been allowed to exist, while other threads are locked daily for similar violations.

Actually, its not so mind-boggling.

If the ISD's 'like' a thread, it doesn't really matter if it clearly violates forum rules or not.
Terrible precedent to set.
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#162 - 2012-10-22 09:44:39 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:


There are rules, they will be followed, and they will be respected. Likewise, you will all learn to respect each other, and our ISD volunteers. Those who don't will sadly end up being on the bad end of a forum gag if they repeatedly choose to ignore the rules. Be it on their own heads.



Exactly.
Please consult these threads:

"Like and get Likes"
Violates: Rule #17 All posts must be about or related to EVE online.

"Rate the avatar above you"
"What would you say if you woke up to the Avatar above you in bed" (Teen rated?)
"What is the avatar above you thinking"
"Hate the Avatar above you"

Lack of content and....

#14 Redundant threads will be deleted.

As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Keep discussions about one topic to one thread only.

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#163 - 2012-10-22 09:57:43 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people.

I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".

MDD

This!

Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!

Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
CCP Falcon
#164 - 2012-10-22 10:03:17 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:


There are rules, they will be followed, and they will be respected. Likewise, you will all learn to respect each other, and our ISD volunteers. Those who don't will sadly end up being on the bad end of a forum gag if they repeatedly choose to ignore the rules. Be it on their own heads.



Exactly.
Please consult these threads:

"Like and get Likes"
Violates: Rule #17 All posts must be about or related to EVE online.

"Rate the avatar above you"
"What would you say if you woke up to the Avatar above you in bed" (Teen rated?)
"What is the avatar above you thinking"
"Hate the Avatar above you"

Lack of content and....

#14 Redundant threads will be deleted.

As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Keep discussions about one topic to one thread only.



These threads have been permitted to stay due to the fact that so many of them sprung up after the Incarna launch. We felt it better that we had a centralized place for each of these topics rather than 500 separate threads on the same thing. As such we selected the most popular of each of them and allowed them to remain, then closed the surplus threads.

Really, it's not rocket science that this is what happened and is blatantly obvious to anyone that this is why these threads remain open.

The fact of the matter is that you can try and push on technicalities and grey areas all day. In the end, these threads are there to assist us in keeping the subjects contained into single threads, and the ISD team with their moderation duties. These threads are moderated just the same as any other thread on the forums, and if you have an issue with a post that's made in them you can use the report button and it'll be reviewed.






CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Falcon
#165 - 2012-10-22 10:05:53 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people.

I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".

MDD

This!

Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!

Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.


Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2012-10-22 10:12:52 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people.

I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".

MDD

This!

Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!

Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.


Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Smile


Why isn't it possible to hide devposts?

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP Falcon
#167 - 2012-10-22 10:14:17 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people.

I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".

MDD

This!

Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!

Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.


Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Smile


Why isn't it possible to hide devposts?


Because we're sneaky. Very, very, sneaky. <3

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#168 - 2012-10-22 12:23:38 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
What is everyone's opinion on moderators noting on a post if the user gets banned or warned because of it?

Well, I suppose my first thought is "what is the purpose of making those actions public?"

  1. Public shaming will reduce recurrence for that character/player
  2. Public shaming will reduce copycat offences
  3. Public announcement will make it easier for the remaining players to "learn by example" those actions which are out-of-bounds


Maybe there are some other potential positives I don't realize.

Potential negatives:

  1. "Public shaming" becomes a goal for a subset of players/characters, causing intentional rule breaking
  2. Public acknowledgement encourages public debate over the specific moderation action (CCP believes this is undesirable)
  3. More work for CCP (ISD neither bans nor warns players; that is strictly the responsibility of the CCP Community team)


From the above, I see no compelling reason to make a ban or a warning public.

Inquisitor Kitchner, do you have some point I've overlooked?

MDD


No your positives pretty much cover it off, other then the 2nd negative I don't think the other two carry any weight.

Some players may have a goal for "public shaming" however that's no different to now. I started a thread called "Post in this thread every day there isn't a dev blog" pretty much knowing it was going to get locked. It's only the repeat offenders that would get any actions taken against them anyway, in which case if you threaten to ban their actual game account rather then a posting alt they may think twice.

In terms of the public debate over moderation, it may increase debate in the short term, which means extra work closing threads and telling people to file petitions however isn't the point that CCP wants feedback? Over time as the warning/banning or whatever would become more in line with what the community wants and therefore less debate would occur.

Also I don't know if there's a technical reason why it isn't done but I'm all in favour of temporary read only bans as punishments for terrible posters.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#169 - 2012-10-22 12:47:05 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
I didn't say they ban sales of mature games - it's just a self policed rating system that is taken seriously by the majority of the games publishers that operate there.


hiii, EVE doesn't require a you to buy a CD/DVD to start playing... anyone going into a store to buy eve is stupid when you can just go to the website and download it, then activate the game by paying on the site... what kind of publishers are you worried about losing by getting a M rating? I believe that a M rating would be good for eve... because thats the kind of audience it should attract, mature players...

Maybe this is the problem at the core that has been going on for a while now, Carebear haven T rating.... trying to make flowers and rainbows so the T rating is kept "be nice to eachother" wubtidubtidub :)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#170 - 2012-10-22 13:26:50 UTC
I think the safest option is to refer you back to CCP Falcon's new post about this:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2077934#post2077934

Thanks.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Reptail
#171 - 2012-10-22 14:04:16 UTC
A ok good to know , then spamming in the four "no rule follower" threads is allowed , nice, now i know where to post Blink

Ground Shiwer
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#172 - 2012-10-22 14:37:46 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people.

I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".

MDD

This!

Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!

Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.


Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Smile


I can't tell if you're trolling me or simply responding strictly to Lors. Please tell me you realize that what I asked for is not at all the same as the solution you posited above.

MDD
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#173 - 2012-10-22 14:42:53 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
In terms of the public debate over moderation, it may increase debate in the short term, which means extra work closing threads and telling people to file petitions however isn't the point that CCP wants feedback? Over time as the warning/banning or whatever would become more in line with what the community wants and therefore less debate would occur.

CCP has (at times quite pointedly) prohibited public discussion of bans since forever. I have no reason to doubt that they do this for good reason. Perhaps they would care to state (or re-state) why.

Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Also I don't know if there's a technical reason why it isn't done but I'm all in favour of temporary read only bans as punishments for terrible posters.

I believe that, for the vast majority of bans, they are temporary. And you don't have to have an active Eve account to read the forums. So I believe that things now are as you seem to be stating you wish them to be. Am I missing something?

MDD
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#174 - 2012-10-22 14:47:42 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
Why isn't it possible to hide devposts?

CCP Falcon wrote:
Because we're sneaky. Very, very, sneaky. <3

I think DeBingJos was being serious. Is there a good reason why dev posts may not be hidden?

MDD
Nanatoa
#175 - 2012-10-22 14:58:09 UTC
Because dev posts are always serious and filled with valuable content

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2012-10-22 15:33:18 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
Because dev posts are always serious and filled with valuable content

+1 to you good sir

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP Falcon
#177 - 2012-10-22 16:02:18 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Bart Starr wrote:
Having multiple slots (on the front page of GD) constantly filled with multiple Avatar threadnaught and 'Like and get Likes' is annoying to quite a few people.

I agree. I think CCL might have fewer irritated players (read: "moderation candidates") if we had a way to hide threads, similar to how we can hide the posts of a specific player. Something like an "anti-subscribe".

MDD

This!

Oh Yes, Hallelujah, This!

Being able to block/hide threads and/or posters would be a wonderful blessing.


Click the name of the poster under the avatar to the left of their post and select "Hide Posts". Smile


I can't tell if you're trolling me or simply responding strictly to Lors. Please tell me you realize that what I asked for is not at all the same as the solution you posited above.

MDD


Big smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Falcon
#178 - 2012-10-22 16:03:19 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:
Why isn't it possible to hide devposts?

CCP Falcon wrote:
Because we're sneaky. Very, very, sneaky. <3

I think DeBingJos was being serious. Is there a good reason why dev posts may not be hidden?

MDD


I'm not sure actually, perhaps it's part of the forum back end because we have moderator privileges.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
CCP Falcon
#179 - 2012-10-22 16:15:19 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
I can't tell if you're trolling me or simply responding strictly to Lors. Please tell me you realize that what I asked for is not at all the same as the solution you posited above.

MDD


To answer you more directly, I was simply showing how it's possible to hide people's posts should you want to, since you seemed so enthusiastic about being able to do so.

Blink


CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#180 - 2012-10-22 16:51:32 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
I can't tell if you're trolling me or simply responding strictly to Lors. Please tell me you realize that what I asked for is not at all the same as the solution you posited above.

MDD

CCP Falcon wrote:
To answer you more directly, I was simply showing how it's possible to hide people's posts should you want to, since you seemed so enthusiastic about being able to do so.
Blink

Fair enough. But to me there's a big difference between hiding everything someone has ever (and will ever) write, and hiding a particular topic. I hope you can appreciate why I might want the latter and not the former.

MDD