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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#121 - 2012-10-21 04:38:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
People who want to remove local are just people who want to force EVE to become a more tedious game via forced gate camping and scanning, tbh. Most of us play for fun, not to watch gates and spam buttons.

It works for WHs because numbers are low there. Force nullsec into the "no local" paradigm and you'll burn out a lot of people very quickly. Delayed local, fine. Cloaked people not showing up, also fine. But complete removal of local in space where thousands live and fleets of hundreds roam is just making EVE into a game with more forced activities most people don't enjoy.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#122 - 2012-10-21 04:40:12 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
Removing Local doesn't create more targets, it jsut changes how you kill the current targets. More targets would be more people going to null, now do you have a decent argument for why sans local in null = more people coming to null?


It would create fewer targets, and make them harder to find.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#123 - 2012-10-21 04:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tul Breetai wrote:
Removing Local doesn't create more targets, it jsut changes how you kill the current targets. More targets would be more people going to null, now do you have a decent argument for why sans local in null = more people coming to null?


It would create fewer targets, and make them harder to find.


"How come no one would fight me?"

"You were there?"

People who want local removed are under the impression that PvPers will run away from a handful of reds in local. The truth is, reds in local is what gets PvPers to undock and start scanning. Continuously scanning a system with nothing but friendlies would get pretty tiresome pretty fast, especially with enforced ship naming conventions in order to even be able to keep track, not that thats a hard thing to spoof.

It is, to put it lightly, a moronic idea.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2012-10-21 04:43:11 UTC
LordShazbot wrote:



So you are implying that you should not be able to defend yourself properly until your stuff is being attacked and or exploded?



Nah that would be too easy. I was pointing out both a problem and an advantage.

in order for local to be removed there needs to be some way for people (alliances with sov) to compensate for the loss that doesn't involve "Hey you newbie, go to this gate and stay there and tell us everything that comes through"

Like a system beacon that starts screaming like a maniac when more than ten hostiles drop into a system at a time or something.

I must stress "or something" because the problem created outweighs the advantage. it also create a perception that in order to survive as an alliance in null one must micromanage everyone.

That's about as fun as sticking a nut into a grape juicer. but i think that there should be no warning about a singleton ship sneaking into a null system, bluntly. It's supposed to be lawless space, not police state monitoring system space. but large groups should set off alarms.

Im interested in giving people reasons to sneak into null to have a peek around, or to engage in small gang raiding, etc. Fleet movements aren't something I'd consider sacrosanct.

But I think exact intel should be imperfect, to represent the fact that nullsec isn't as "civilized" or as heavily infrastructure devoted as highsec or lowsec.
LordShazbot
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2012-10-21 04:54:05 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
People who want to remove local are just people who want to force EVE to become a more tedious game via forced gate camping and scanning, tbh. Most of us play for fun, not to watch gates and spam buttons.

It works for WHs because numbers are low there. Force nullsec into the "no local" paradigm and you'll burn out a lot of people very quickly. Delayed local, fine. Cloaked people now showing up, also fine. But complete removal of local in space where thousands live and fleets of hundreds roam is just making EVE into a game with more forced activities most people don't enjoy.



This^

Take away local and you basically create a null sec where only alliances with big numbers can survive because of the logistical problems that it would create. There would be no more small gang roams because everyone would think there is a bizzillion mean people in null sec waiting somewhere in the system to kill them and would never be able to commit the numbers to "watching gates" or spaming 360* Dscan.

The point i am trying to make is that we shouldnt want to make it more difficult for newer players to experience null sec and taking the one tool that smaller corps and gangs use as a defense would hinder that.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2012-10-21 04:56:39 UTC
see my answer right above yours. i don't disagree necessarily. i simply don't believe in "easy fixes" sorry if the sarcasm was TOO thick.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#127 - 2012-10-21 04:57:41 UTC
LordShazbot wrote:

This^

Take away local and you basically create a null sec where only alliances with big numbers can survive because of the logistical problems that it would create. There would be no more small gang roams because everyone would think there is a bizzillion mean people in null sec waiting somewhere in the system to kill them and would never be able to commit the numbers to "watching gates" or spaming 360* Dscan.

The point i am trying to make is that we shouldnt want to make it more difficult for newer players to experience null sec and taking the one tool that smaller corps and gangs use as a defense would hinder that.


Even in larger alliances, no one wants to do any of those jobs. When logging in means you have to do something you don't want to do, then people just don't log in. This is precisely why all the enforced CTA alliances tend to fail and pull meager numbers on CTA fleets.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-10-21 05:01:09 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Start an new acct and eveboard it after four days. If you can hop in a cov ops ship I will plex you for a year. If you can't, then you have to stop being a drama queen for a year.

Mr Epeen Cool


let's see

frigate 5
electronics 5
electronic upgrades 5
cloaking 4
covert ops 4

goddamn that is intense brb queuing up doomsday operation 5

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Gorn Arming
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-10-21 05:31:49 UTC
I love these threads. They make it so easy to tell who actually lives in nullsec and who doesn't.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-10-21 05:35:10 UTC
I thought that was every thread.
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#131 - 2012-10-21 06:07:50 UTC
Remove everything! No Chat! No UI! No Graphics!

It will be PURE spreadsheets! The number apocalypse!
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-10-21 06:11:07 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Remove everything! No Chat! No UI! No Graphics!

It will be PURE spreadsheets! The number apocalypse!


this man is a genius. give him the keys to the dev-locker
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#133 - 2012-10-21 06:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Andski wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Preserve the lore

Remove cloaked ships from local.



yeah i'd love to just park a cloaked hictor on a beacon and be absolutely undetectable when somebody shows up to scout it, waiting for something to come through so I can decloak, light my cyno and drop my nyx on it


Don't fly with out back up.

Never been to 0.0.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9325240

Psstt.. I had backup. We were chasing them.

But, lolz, yeah. Moral of the story: Never drive straight at someone to point when you are MWD fit. That was a funny day too. I think we got 'em all in the end. They were good value for money those guys. Saw them last in Uanzin.

PS: You missed the Loki I lost when I got sucked into aggressing at the gate before I found out they had "backup".

20+ blues ratting and faffing in V6 and PXF - no-one called red fleet coming through.
50+ in 9DQ - not one single person came to help at the gate. Not one. I still laugh about it.

That was the alliance they called FA. Glad you guys took them in.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#134 - 2012-10-21 08:05:47 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:

Why do 90% of all null sec dwellers run and dock as soon as they see a mute jump In system?

Why do 90% of all wormhole dwellers run and dock as soon as they d-scan one of my probes?
The choice is clear - introduce wormhole stabilizers and remove free cynojamming so that wormhole players can enjoy some gfs.


There are no stations in wormholes. Yes, we all know that nullseccers invariably fail every time they enter wormholes, but it's just because you are terrible in EVE and unfortunately CCP can't fix stupid.

Nullsec needs local for their ratting bots to function, simple as that.

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#135 - 2012-10-21 08:09:30 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
not mentioned: when the guy ratting hits d-scan and sees your probe, immediately possing up

maybe this guy is a scrub and doesn't know about the onboard scanner

so finding targets becomes a thing where you use d-scan and start hurling yourself at anomalies which match up with the d-scan range (you're adjusting the d-scan distance filter every two seconds so you can match up anom/distance in KMs for d-scan, convert it to AUs, and then line it up with the anomalies on your scanner windows), then all you gotta do warp to it and tackle away

so imagine a fun nullsec roam where you gotta do that in every system you go into to find targets


proof that nullseccers are ******* terrible

.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#136 - 2012-10-21 08:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Roime wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:

Why do 90% of all null sec dwellers run and dock as soon as they see a mute jump In system?

Why do 90% of all wormhole dwellers run and dock as soon as they d-scan one of my probes?
The choice is clear - introduce wormhole stabilizers and remove free cynojamming so that wormhole players can enjoy some gfs.


There are no stations in wormholes. Yes, we all know that nullseccers invariably fail every time they enter wormholes, but it's just because you are terrible in EVE and unfortunately CCP can't fix stupid.

Nullsec needs local for their ratting bots to function, simple as that.
these are the sort of crying fits and rage posts we get to hear when talk of the mass limit and cynojam safety nets are discussed of being removed. Thanks for helping Roime.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#137 - 2012-10-21 08:26:46 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
these are the sort of crying fits and rage posts we get to hear when talk of the mass limit and cynojam safety nets are discussed of being removed. Thanks for helping Roime.


I've always found it funny how WH players, living behind their mass-limited safety gate, think they live in truly dangerous space. In dangerous space, when the great white thinks you look tasty, nothing is between you and him but your fists.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-10-21 08:27:01 UTC
Roime wrote:
Nullsec needs local for their ratting bots to function, simple as that.


yeah because bots aren't able to do things like spamming dscan and warping off when something hostile shows up on grid

they also can't react far quicker than a human ever can

goddamn you should read your own posts sometime

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#139 - 2012-10-21 08:32:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
Roime wrote:
Nullsec needs local for their ratting bots to function, simple as that.


yeah because bots aren't able to do things like spamming dscan and warping off when something hostile shows up on grid

they also can't react far quicker than a human ever can

goddamn you should read your own posts sometime


Confirming this.

As someone who spent quite some time trying to figure out just how to spook some exceptionally skittish ratting bots into jumping into a bubble in Catch, it became quite apparent that they completely ignore local and simply instant-react as soon as a hostile appears on grid.
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise
#140 - 2012-10-21 09:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonni Favorite
Mirima Thurander wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It works for wormholes, so it should work for nullsec. Right? RIGHT?"
lol no.

Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.




Look its one of the herd coming to defend local and hide behind its safety of instant Intel.


And more of the sheep people show them selfs.


OMG you caught me. I feel so ashamed.. Ugh

And a little dirty too