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Drone Management Question: Aggressive and Passive Setting Mechanics
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San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#1 - 2012-10-12 14:26:44 UTC
I understand the settings themselves and typically have my drones set to passive in order to avoid unwanted aggression.

However in some situations I feel the need to switch my drones to aggressive. For instance, I am being swarmed by a dozen frigates or rogue drones but my BC tank is enough to ignore them while I focus on other things.

In a situation like this what limitations exist on switching the drones from passive to aggressive?

What actions dictate a response from "aggressive" drones?

How quickly will your flight of drones transition from passive to aggressive, or visa versa?

In practice I am beginning to suspect answers to some of the above questions but I would like some additional input.

Thanks
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-10-12 14:46:18 UTC
I get the impression that the aggressive/passive flag controls whether the drones monitor incoming attacks ("attack" in this case meaning any activation of an aggressive module - web, scram, jammer, painter, or actual weapon - targeting you or any of your drones). Have to test it, but it's probably a lot like what happens if you launch drones while you're under attack; if the drones don't see the attack as it starts, they won't register that the attack is happening.

"Aggressive" drones will basically note any ship that the drones see launching an attack on you, and jump on that ship. They seem to prioritize ships of the same weight class as the drones themselves (light drones will attack frigates and destroyers first, medium drones will attack cruisers and battlecruisers first, heavy drones will attack battleships first).

The aggressive/passive setting may just turn the incoming-attack-awareness bit of the drone AI on or off.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Jose Black
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-10-12 15:14:51 UTC
If set to passive they do only care about orders you give them. If you launch them they do not attack anything on their own. If their target is destroyed they do not switch to another one, but instead travel back to your ship slowly and if they arrive start orbiting it.

If set to aggressive they do attack any target that either shoots you or one of them. They priorize targets that activate e-war on you, ships of their own size and ships close to their own position. If you launch them they sometimes need an attack order at first and only then actively switch to any other targets. If you launch them after the targets started attacking you they will not care, but instead need an attack order to get working.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#4 - 2012-10-12 17:44:42 UTC
Aggressive drones work based on you getting aggression. On other words they will attack anyone that starts red boxing you. To get them started they need to detect a new red box, so if you change them to aggressive while already being attacked they won't do anything.

However if you set the drones on a target manually they should be able to continue picking out red boxers after that first target is destroyed.

(afaik auto targeter modules work similarly, though I don't know of a method to reboot them after already having aggression)

The Drake is a Lie
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#5 - 2012-10-20 21:35:24 UTC
Great thread topic. I have just got into my Vexor and am currently focusing on training my Drone skills out. Right now my DPS is 36.9...that is rather sad for the moment.

Drone Control Range vs Drone Optimum Range.

I have tried to look for good info in explanation on these but the info is rather vague or the comments are all over the place and contradictive.

Let's say my character (not toon) can target to...for the sake of round numbers...100km and my DCR is 50km and my DOR is 50km. If my Drone is at 50km, can't I command the Drone and hit the target?

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#6 - 2012-10-20 21:43:10 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Let's say my character (not toon) can target to...for the sake of round numbers...100km and my DCR is 50km and my DOR is 50km. If my Drone is at 50km, can't I command the Drone and hit the target?

Drone optimal range is the range at which the drones' guns fire optimally, just like your guns have optimal range or falloff.

In the example you gave, you would be able to tell your drones to attack your target, because the target is at 50 km and your drone control range is also 50 km.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#7 - 2012-10-20 21:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Drone optimal range is the range at which the drones' guns fire optimally, just like your guns have optimal range or falloff.

In the example you gave, you would be able to tell your drones to attack your target, because the target is at 50 km and your drone control range is also 50 km.

Excellent. I wanted to ensure I had the tems and descriptions accurate to understanding.

The learned input form this valiant community comes with great appreciation.

I'm sure I will have more Drone Qs in the near future. I just wished someone had a detailed video on the application, strategy and effective use of Drones and a updated description of the associated skills, mods and rigs and how they affect the Drone prominent player.

EDIT : Sorry, I may have made a fopar in my example.Sad

In the example the target is at 100km and the Drome is half way to the target. Just so everyone is clear.

Me <---------------- target range 100km -----------------> Target
Me <-----DCR 50km----> Drone <----DOR 50km----> Target

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-10-20 22:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
EDIT : Sorry, I may have made a fopar in my example.Sad

In the example the target is at 100km and the Drome is half way to the target. Just so everyone is clear.

If the target is at 100 km and your drone control range is only 50 km, your drones cannot be ordered to do anything to it. Drone optimal range doesn't enter into it.

For example:

Your Muninn is sniping a Rifter from 70 km away. You have a flight of light drones, but your drone control range is only 50 km. You try to tell them to attack the Rifter, but you can't. The Rifter starts burning at you, and as soon as he gets within 50 km of you, your drones begin responding to your attack orders. The drones proceed to burn over to the Rifter and engage. They do this by approaching and orbiting it at their optimal range (1 km) and firing their guns.

That's how these attributes come into play.

Edit:
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:

Me <---------------- target range 100km -----------------> Target
Me <-----DCR 50km----> Drone <----DOR 50km----> Target

Ah, I see what you mean. The position of the drone is irrelevant; in the example you gave, the drones would not be able to fire on the target. Also, the only drones that can have around 50 km optimal range are sentry drones, which can't move (so you probably shouldn't be dumping them in space far away from you).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#9 - 2012-10-20 22:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Ah, I see what you mean. The position of the drone is irrelevant; in the example you gave, the drones would not be able to fire on the target. Also, the only drones that can have around 50 km optimal range are sentry drones, which can't move (so you probably shouldn't be dumping them in space far away from you).

See, this is what doesn't make since to me. (Just a note...the ranges are numbers grabbed out of the blue for clarity)

If my Drone can shoot at stuff 50km away and I can control my Drone to 50km. Then I should be able to hit something that is out to 100km, provided I can actually target it to start with. But that doers not seem to be the case, from what you are saying.

So the DCR must match the DOR for the Drone to be fully effective with it maximum range?

With a Sentry, that is posted at a stationary point, I could not operate it from 50km out to hit anything within a 50km radius of the Sentry? Even on the other side? Given that the Sentry was set to passive, that is.

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-10-20 22:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Ah, I see what you mean. The position of the drone is irrelevant; in the example you gave, the drones would not be able to fire on the target. Also, the only drones that can have around 50 km optimal range are sentry drones, which can't move (so you probably shouldn't be dumping them in space far away from you).

See, this is what doesn't make since to me. (Just a note...the ranges are numbers grabbed out of the blue for clarity)

If my Drone can shoot at stuff 50km away and I can control my Drone to 50km. Then I should be able to hit something that is out to 100km, provided I can actually target it to start with. But that doers not seem to be the case, from what you are saying.

So the DCR must match the DOR for the Drone to be fully effective with it maximum range?

With a Sentry, that is posted at a stationary point, I could not operate it from 50km out to hit anything within a 50km radius of the Sentry? Even on the other side? Given that the Sentry was set to passive, that is.

You mean if it were set to aggressive. In that case, I think it would.

The drone system is made with a focus on mobile drones (everything but sentries), which have very low optimal ranges (<5 km in all cases, if I remember correctly).

The "lore" explanation to make sense of it would be that the drone doesn't think independently or "call" its own targets, but that it is controlled directly by your ship. Due to sensor/control limitations, the ship cannot give the drones any orders that involve locations farther away than the drone control range.

Fortunately, limitations like this aren't usually problematic, because the Drone Link Augmentor module is a high-slot mod and drone ships typically have one or more utility high slots by design.

By the way, I may be the wrong person to answer all of this, since drones are probably my least used primary weapon system. Just sayin'.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#11 - 2012-10-20 22:55:47 UTC
I think I get it now.

The Drone Control Range is basically the "Target Range" for using Drones. It is the relation of you to the target.

So, my DCR needs to match my ships Target range to be maximum effective. That way if I can target lock the enemy, I can command a Drone to engage without getting an error message pop up saying..."Sux to be you. Get closer."

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2012-10-21 00:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Drone Control Range = Distance from the pilot to what the pilot wants them to attack.

In my Rattlesnake, I have a DCR greater than my targeting range, so my drones will attack stuff that I cannot target. Typically only EWAR is > 90 km, so my drones (Bouncer II sentries for range) will engage a distant stasis tower for example. The trick is to deploy them ASAP on warp-in.

EDIT: I just checked. My Rattlesnake's targeting range is 93.75 km, and its DCR is 129 km.
Jesuis Cache-Cache
#13 - 2012-10-21 00:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jesuis Cache-Cache
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Drone Control Range = Distance from the pilot to what the pilot wants them to attack.

In my Rattlesnake, I have a DCR greater than my targeting range, so my drones will attack stuff that I cannot target. Typically only EWAR is > 90 km, so my drones will engage a distant stasis tower for example.

EDIT: I just checked. My Rattlesnake's targeting range is 93.75 km, and its DCR is 129 km.

EWAR? Electronic Warfare?

Just to humor an old man...If your DCR is greater than your actual targeting range, how can you issue a command to attack something that is beyond your own targeting capability? Or do you mean that by it being greater, it ensures that anything you target gets attacked by your Drones?

EDIT :

I mean, does one need to worry with continuing a skill to increase his/her DCR, if it already meets the current Targeting Range? Other than maybe, retrieval of the Drones if they are way out there?

That brings up another Q. Is there a maximum distance that Drones can be recovered?

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 
James Bolivar DeGriz
Chaos Delivery Systems
#14 - 2012-10-21 01:40:16 UTC
At one time I was told to turn my drones to passive so they would not attack can flippers.

Is this BS then?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2012-10-21 02:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
EWAR? Electronic Warfare?

Electronic Warfare (EWAR):

* Stasis Webifier
* Tracking Disruptor
* Sensor Dampener
* Target Painter
* Warp Disruptor & Warp Scrambler
* ECM
* Energy Neutralizer & Nosferatu

The last three have a lot shorter range and are not an issue, but they also trigger an aggressive drone response.

Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Just to humor an old man...If your DCR is greater than your actual targeting range, how can you issue a command to attack something that is beyond your own targeting capability? Or do you mean that by it being greater, it
ensures that anything you target gets attacked by your Drones?

EDIT :

I mean, does one need to worry with continuing a skill to increase his/her DCR, if it already meets the current Targeting Range? Other than maybe, retrieval of the Drones if they are way out there?

Drones on aggressive will not initiate attack on anything outside of DCR.

Example: a stasis tower at 114 km webifies me, and my aggressive Bouncer II sentry drones destroy it, as they have 98.3 km optimal + 42 km falloff. My targeting range is 93.75 km and my DCR is 129 km, so my Bouncer II sentries will protect me from anything out to 129 km from me.

Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
That brings up another Q. Is there a maximum distance that Drones can be recovered?

Well, 2.5 km for sentries.

Drones will pursue targets that leave DCR. You can always recall them it seems, but they become disconnected if you / they leave grid.
San Fransisco
Silver Falcon Survey
#16 - 2012-10-22 12:23:20 UTC
James Bolivar DeGriz wrote:
At one time I was told to turn my drones to passive so they would not attack can flippers.

Is this BS then?


Please someone correct me if I am wrong but,

When someone uses a cargo scanner on you it is considered an aggressive act by the drone AI. Therefore, if you have your drones set to aggressive they will attack the scanner and you will be CONCORDED
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-10-22 12:56:26 UTC
Little note on drone range, if you train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing, you can increase drone control range by 3000m per level, without fitting a Drone Link Augmentor on you ship, saving CPU/PG to fit more useful stuff.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Doddy
Excidium.
#18 - 2012-10-22 13:50:58 UTC
San Fransisco wrote:
James Bolivar DeGriz wrote:
At one time I was told to turn my drones to passive so they would not attack can flippers.

Is this BS then?


Please someone correct me if I am wrong but,

When someone uses a cargo scanner on you it is considered an aggressive act by the drone AI. Therefore, if you have your drones set to aggressive they will attack the scanner and you will be CONCORDED


This is wrong.
Doddy
Excidium.
#19 - 2012-10-22 13:51:42 UTC
James Bolivar DeGriz wrote:
At one time I was told to turn my drones to passive so they would not attack can flippers.

Is this BS then?


Yep, bs.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-10-22 14:12:50 UTC
From my experimentation, I think that for drones to attack something autonomously, you need three things:

* Drones have to be deployed (obviously)
* Drones have to be set to aggressive
* Drones have to observe another ship "red-boxing" you (or engaging one of your drones in a similar manner)

IE: target painters, jammers, and other EW units, as well as weapons, will trigger a response from the drones; cargo or ship-fitting scanners won't.

Unless I missed something.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
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