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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-10-20 19:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.


Never ever do what this guy asks ccp !!!

Cloak alts serve a purpose, it's a valid tactic and pressure over enemies and everyone uses them. And then you silly idea will simply and definitively eradicate from the game hot-dropping and the purpose of cloacky characters.
It's their purpose, deal with it or die.

No it doesn't, and it actually solves the issue of "afk cloakers" that people keep bitchign about.

Where do you get the idea that afk cloaking is about forcing people into stations? That is neither right, nor fun, it sure isn't a benefit to PvP in null.

If you cloak, you shouldn't show on local, that way you can actually utilize those cynos to hotdrop on people in a system, because they didn't dock up the second you entered and cloaked.


The whole point of cloaking is so that people DON'T KNOW YOUR THERE. Local for cloaked ships limits there capacity to act as recon and intel, because people dock up when they see you there.

I can't sit in a system and spy if you know I'm there, and I can't hotdrop a fleet on a group when they know I'm there.

PS: Sounds a lot more like you don't want cloaked recon to actually be able to do these things to you, because currently you can just dock up and effectively neuter the recon and intel guys.


If the guy is afk how can he even hurt you?-can you seriously answer this question?

If he's afk he can't do anything to you
If he's cloacky just do what it takes to bait it and get it.

That easy.

EDIT: I actually know a little bit more about cloacking and about cloacky reccon than you, and I don't give a crap you know I'm there when I'm not afk (more often than actually baiting idiots).
If you're looking for the ultimate null sec hunter buff, then you clearly don't want anything else than ruining the game for every one, because once this is possible, even lvl1's in high sec will be far more interesting than whatever null sec rating.

You're clearly bad at thinking.

brb
Mirima Thurander
#22 - 2012-10-20 19:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
anyways, reading this little blog:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235
Null Sec
PVP: 7,061,988
PVE: 568,353
Total: 7,630,341

Wormhole Space

PVP: 377,786
PVE: 162,126
Total: 539,912


so wormholes have 1/4 of the population of 0.0 but 1/20th of the PvP action
and certain members start threads about other secstatus places being too safe

how embarassing


Your over looking that's the the nature of whs that make it safer. Not the lack of local.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-10-20 19:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
anyways, reading this little blog:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3235
Null Sec
PVP: 7,061,988
PVE: 568,353
Total: 7,630,341

Wormhole Space

PVP: 377,786
PVE: 162,126
Total: 539,912


so wormholes have 1/4 of the population of 0.0 but 1/20th of the PvP action
and certain members start threads about other secstatus places being too safe

how embarassing


Your over looking that's the the nature of whs that make it safer. Not the lack of local.

I'm not overlooking it, I remember the giant threadnaughts in response to the idea of a 'wormhole stabilizer' module. You know, an aspect of 0.0 treated as a given that allegedly would 'kill w-space'. It's no mystery to me why the average wormholer is only a quarter as likely to be shot by another player as a 0.0 player. The chestbeating on the other hand, that is the mystery.
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-10-20 19:10:51 UTC
Local isn't the greatest foe in 0.0 causing the lack of targets - the massive blue lists are.

All removing local will do is cause spamming of the directional scanner by everyone, putting more load on the server. Maybe a delayed local based on the sec status of the systems could work (with 1.0 being instant and gradual delays from there).
Mirima Thurander
#25 - 2012-10-20 19:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
S'Way wrote:
Local isn't the greatest foe in 0.0 causing the lack of targets - the massive blue lists are.

All removing local will do is cause spamming of the directional scanner by everyone, putting more load on the server. Maybe a delayed local based on the sec status of the systems could work (with 1.0 being instant and gradual delays from there).



No, no easy Intel if you don't want to work for it you don't deserve it.




I am truly Am disappointed in you full time null sec.players. U act hardcore but your just another forum of carebear I know your scared of a world with no local chat but man up please its for the best.

Think of all the stupid.ratters you could kill if they didn't have local to warn them when you jump in system.

Think of the fleets you could jump if they didn't have good scouts.

Think of all the kill mails you could get.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-10-20 19:19:48 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.


Never ever do what this guy asks ccp !!!

Cloak alts serve a purpose, it's a valid tactic and pressure over enemies and everyone uses them. And then you silly idea will simply and definitively eradicate from the game hot-dropping and the purpose of cloacky characters.
It's their purpose, deal with it or die.

No it doesn't, and it actually solves the issue of "afk cloakers" that people keep bitchign about.

Where do you get the idea that afk cloaking is about forcing people into stations? That is neither right, nor fun, it sure isn't a benefit to PvP in null.

If you cloak, you shouldn't show on local, that way you can actually utilize those cynos to hotdrop on people in a system, because they didn't dock up the second you entered and cloaked.


The whole point of cloaking is so that people DON'T KNOW YOUR THERE. Local for cloaked ships limits there capacity to act as recon and intel, because people dock up when they see you there.

I can't sit in a system and spy if you know I'm there, and I can't hotdrop a fleet on a group when they know I'm there.

PS: Sounds a lot more like you don't want cloaked recon to actually be able to do these things to you, because currently you can just dock up and effectively neuter the recon and intel guys.


If the guy is afk how can he even hurt you?-can you seriously answer this question?

If he's afk he can't do anything to you
If he's cloacky just do what it takes to bait it and get it.

That easy.

EDIT: I actually know a little bit more about cloacking and about cloacky reccon than you, and I don't give a crap you know I'm there when I'm not afk (more often than actually baiting idiots).
If you're looking for the ultimate null sec hunter buff, then you clearly don't want anything else than ruining the game for every one, because once this is possible, even lvl1's in high sec will be far more interesting than whatever null sec rating.

You're clearly bad at thinking.


Yeah, I do believe one of the reasons I gave for removing cloaks fromlocal is the "OMG people are afk cloaked in my system", in other words "the bitching about afk cloaks".

I don't give a **** if someone is afk, I understand full well that an afk player isn't a thread.

But I also understand that removing local doesn't generate more targets. Chat has **** to do with how many people you get to shoot at.

No local makes null harder, fact.
Harder means fewer people, fact.
Cloakers are only driving people into stations, fact.
People sitting in stations doesn't generate more pvp, fact.
People in stations reduces the number of targets, fact.

CCP will not remove local from null. We can even get into the entirely geeky reason that it's actually counter to the lore they've already written. Yes, indeed, I went there.

Knowing the cloaked ship is there isn't good.
It's better people didn't know they were there. If they don't know they're there, they won't dock, they'll remeain a potential target, and the cloaked guy can actually bring in guys, or maybe even uncloak and get that lone guy sitting there. All that is much better than your desire to cause people to dock.

Making people dock is about as ******* boring as you can get.


And no, you don't "know more about cloaking" than anyone else, get over yourself.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-10-20 19:25:25 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
You cry for more targets but then will not remove your greatest foe LOCAL chat.

Some want it removed. It most like it for its ease of Intel gathering.

And now to the main point.

How can u be such a Carebear and need ccp to keep local so you feel safe. Knowing you have your instant intel ever time you jump in system.


And dont even say if there was only a better way to get intel.

You have probes, combat probes, deep space probes, and D-Scan.
If you dont know how they work ask Your wh dwelling friends about there combat scanning.

Local is the tool of the weak minded sheep of null sec. You should be ashamed of your self.

First of all, no, we don't cry for more targets, we want CCP to not giving up to hisec players whining about their space is not "safe enough". We want hisec players to play the game as they want, but accept the fact that others can/should be able to do what they want as well; like kicking your sandcastle and throw sand to your face. This is a sandbox game, or is it not?

Carebear, bear, nullbear (or any other variation of bears thereof) and nullsec doesn't even go in the same sentence. A carebear defines an unwillingness to be involved in pvp or people who's trying to avoid them at all cost. Whether they actually do pvp on a daily basis or not at all, is irrelevant. Just by coming to nullsec, you accept that part of Eve. Because, unlike hisec, you can't stay docked up forever or switch corps or alliances to avoid wardecs, you're comitted, to live in an unsafe place.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Mirima Thurander
#28 - 2012-10-20 19:32:03 UTC
Some one please till me how no local makes null HARDER to find targets in?

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-10-20 19:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

And no, you don't "know more about cloaking" than anyone else, get over yourself.

i've been in thousands of wormhole systems in a covops and never lost a ship, but you don't see me lecturing two step or making threads about wormhole space needs wormhole stabilizers and removing its cynojammer properties, etc. or any number of fixes it needs to no longer be second only to highsec in terms of safety and low number of ships killed in pvp
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-10-20 19:32:59 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

No local makes null harder, fact.


Makes it simply impossible without extreme organisation for whatever activity. This is not "good" for GAMING, it's a second job or a full one you're asking for.

Quote:
Harder means fewer people, fact.
Cloakers are only driving people into stations, fact.
People sitting in stations doesn't generate more pvp, fact.
People in stations reduces the number of targets, fact.


You forgot the most important fact ever: less players less targets: fact

You still clearly don't see the picture of your claimings, the easier and interesting you make so players actually have fun doing "stuff" the more you get population=targets=content=living place=every one benefits
The other way around it's a solo game and you clearly don't belong to an mmorpg game but a solo one with your own server and rules where you're the dev/game master/isd/player/alliance-corp leader etc.

This is just ridiculous.

Quote:
All that is much better than your desire to cause people to dock.

Making people dock is about as ******* boring as you can get.


If your corporation or alliance is unable to to make that place safe to you, they/you don't deserve it anyway.

Quote:
And no, you don't "know more about cloaking" than anyone else, get over yourself.


Since the beginning your claims are from someone not even knowing goonswarm/CFC has specific and dedicated "wings" for this single purpose (much like every other alliance), witch makes of you a noob running his mouth because he can or simply a random bee who doesn't even know what's going on on his own alliance.

I can even name those wings for you if you really need me to refresh your ideas or eventually get some interest for what's going on in your own alliance instead of posting stuff you clearly have no idea the repercussions in a huge part of this game.

brb
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-10-20 19:47:58 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Some one please till me how no local makes null HARDER to find targets in?

In a place where alliances hold systems within wide areas of space.

The "intel channel" could help chain the existence of some fleet further or somewhere within the vicinity, or even when it's not. These often promotes fights, since people can just come in to a space owned by alliance X and the alliance X can go and meet those players.

There's also that random roams where we gauge viability of getting fights within a system by quickly skimming through local, yes dscan can do the same, but with only dscan, we can't tell the difference between whether someone is docked (unless we can be bothered to dock aswell) or just aren't there at all. There's also the issue with 14.3 AU range with dscan for huge systems, while it doesn't really matter if we intend to scan down someone, it made a huge difference when we're just trying to grab a quick intel.

Some other stuff that allows identifying known players in local can also promote fights, or other things like local spikes on certain systems or quickly skimming down where the enemy fleet's going or where they are at the moment. This cannot be done without local. Even Dscan won't be a viable tool to deal with this kind of problem.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Mirima Thurander
#32 - 2012-10-20 19:52:56 UTC
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Some one please till me how no local makes null HARDER to find targets in?

In a place where alliances hold systems within wide areas of space.

The "intel channel" could help chain the existence of some fleet further or somewhere within the vicinity, or even when it's not. These often promotes fights, since people can just come in to a space owned by alliance X and the alliance X can go and meet those players.

There's also that random roams where we gauge viability of getting fights within a system by quickly skimming through local, yes dscan can do the same, but with only dscan, we can't tell the difference between whether someone is docked (unless we can be bothered to dock aswell) or just aren't there at all. There's also the issue with 14.3 AU range with dscan for huge systems, while it doesn't really matter if we intend to scan down someone, it made a huge difference when we're just trying to grab a quick intel.

Some other stuff that allows identifying known players in local can also promote fights, or other things like local spikes on certain systems or quickly skimming down where the enemy fleet's going or where they are at the moment. This cannot be done without local. Even Dscan won't be a viable tool to deal with this kind of problem.



Get better scouts. And if all u want is a gf tell them your coming

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#33 - 2012-10-20 19:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Shobon Welp
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Some one please till me how no local makes null HARDER to find targets in?


Because the roaming gang relies on local to find things to kill. Do I have to draw a diagram in crayon?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#34 - 2012-10-20 19:58:53 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
How the hell does not having local increase the number of targets? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

They don't need to remove local, they need to remove cloaked ships from local; that's all.


I would refine that even further and say only ships that can fit a Cov ops cloak become invisible in local. Because covert and local are mutually incompatible. It's a complete waste of training as it is right now.

Ideally I'd like to get rid of local and leave constellation, but that will never happen.

Mr Epeen Cool
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-10-20 20:03:39 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

I would refine that even further and say only ships that can fit a Cov ops cloak become invisible in local. Because covert and local are mutually incompatible. It's a complete waste of training as it is right now

cripes...
Mirima Thurander
#36 - 2012-10-20 20:05:43 UTC
Shobon Welp wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Some one please till me how no local makes null HARDER to find targets in?


Because the roaming gang relies on local to find things to kill. Do I have to draw a diagram in crayon?



Scouts.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-10-20 20:05:52 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Since the beginning your claims are from someone not even knowing goonswarm/CFC has specific and dedicated "wings" for this single purpose (much like every other alliance), witch makes of you a noob running his mouth because he can or simply a random bee who doesn't even know what's going on on his own alliance.

I can even name those wings for you if you really need me to refresh your ideas or eventually get some interest for what's going on in your own alliance instead of posting stuff you clearly have no idea the repercussions in a huge part of this game.

I'm sorry, what?

What claim? My "beginning" post only stated they should remove local for cloaks so that people will stop bitching about afk cloakers. Which is what people complain about.

I'm well aware that cloaking a ship in a system is a tactic. I'm well aware that GSF does it. Being a member of goonwaffe doesn't make me a mindless drone, incapable of critical thinking or the ability to express MY OWN opinion, it only makes me a member of the best group of players in the game. That's all.

I disagree with many of my corp mates, and members of the CFC.
God forbid I, as an individual, actually have my own opinion.

And yes, I'm actually of the opinion that cloaked ships should be removed from local.

I'm also of the opinion that CCP should create a new module that works with the cloak to generate false gate jumps within a specific range of a gate. Just because I think it would be interesting.


The point of cloaking is so people don't know you're there. It's currently used mostly to force people to dock, which isn't good for the game. I'm pretty sure CCP didn't make cloaks for the purpose that it's used for today.
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#38 - 2012-10-20 20:11:48 UTC
STEP A: Nerf Cynos

STEP B: Nerf Local





The order is important.
Jaison Savrin
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#39 - 2012-10-20 20:12:06 UTC
Hi, I live in a WH. I like the no local concept. I enjoy that I can go do my things and as long as I watch DScan I have an advantage over any unwanted guests. If I miss DScan I get killed. S'all good. That being said I think that "no local" in Null Sec would be a bad idea.

No local in WH works because of the other limitations of WHs. Mass limits means that I will never see a one hundred man fleet in my home system without more than a couple of minutes notice. It means that even without the advanced intel I and those I share the WH with have the advantage because of stock piled resources. I have spare ships, mods, and the corp has multiple POSes, etc all on our side. These are things that an enemy can not easily match. If they do want to match these resources it will take them days if not weeks. In the same amount of time we will be able to increase our own resources. Also because of the class of WH I live in no one will be bringing cap ships to fight against us with. In Null this is another story (I've lived there too). A system can go from empty to 1000 people with battle ships, caps, supercaps, and support ships in minutes without a single gate fire happening. A "Local Spike" is the only real warning someone might have from inside their station. To take away that resource would put defenders at a disadvantage. It would take away too much from them.


TL;DR - No local in Null wouldn't work because of power projection that can't happen in WHs.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-10-20 20:14:06 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]

Ideally I'd like to get rid of local and leave constellation, but that will never happen.

Mr Epeen Cool

I wouldn't mind this at all.

But you can't do it only to null, it would have to effect all of EVE, except WH space.


It is so silly to say, but it really does matter.
Communication in EVE is actually tied to the lore of the game. It's so stupid to use this as an excuse for not removing local from null, but it's something a lot of people actually care about.


I'm wondering. Do people even know why there is no local in WH space? Again, so stupid, but it's entirely based on the lore that CCP has written.

If you want to remove local in null, than you need to make gates built by the players. And then they should probably give the players the ability to intall the communications grid after the gates built, just like high sec.