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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

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Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
#341 - 2011-10-18 17:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tetragammatron Prime
How many hp does it have?

I hope enough to warrant dropping dreads on it. Stealth bombers attacking sov structures is one of the worst things I've had to put up with in 0.0. Will be even worse in low sec where you can't bubble. It is ok if it has so much hp it takes them hours to chew through it with their torps. The tears are extra sweet when you bring in carriers rep it up in one triage cycle after they spend so long thinking they were the ones griefing by using gay stealth bombers.

edit: Nevermind I see. Those hp values are about right.
Jake Centauri
Doomheim
#342 - 2011-10-18 17:16:50 UTC
The combat players love the change. The industrial players hate it. That about sums it up.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#343 - 2011-10-18 17:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
so you have made the worst, most tedious activity aside from ice mining an even more crap dull experiance with even more hauling

you should **** the current pi system off compleatly.

go start again, look at the fanfest vidoes you made with populations, polution and all the intresting features you couldnt be bothered with and start again.


pi is the worst thing imo you have done in 6 years.

please revise the whole system not just make it even worse. 'ccp pi department' your shitting me right?

OMG when can i get a pic here
Sethose Olderon
Honourable Company of Gentlemen
#344 - 2011-10-18 17:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sethose Olderon
CCP Omen wrote:
Starr Tookus wrote:
So this makes setting up your planets for launches important in case jerks run the customs office. I like that.

Question: What kinds of defenses can be installed?


Currently: Nothing.

You will have to defend your customs office with space ships, (beside the reinforcement). From comments to the blog, we realize there is a worry that all customs offices will be griefed all the time. I promise we will keep an eye on this, but our hope is that a new type of players/corporations can emerge that are paid to protect customs office etc.


I like the premise of allowing players to own Customs Offices, but what you propose in this comment is absolutely horrible. You must be aware than everyone hates Alarm Clock Ops. No one enjoys waking up at 5AM to defend a POS, and why would defending a Customs Office be any different. Preventing Customs Offices from having defenses, means someone will have to constantly defend it, and that is simply not fun.

When it comes to Outposts, POSs, Customs Offices, TCUs, and etc, I would suggest that you devise a mechanic that isn't "capture the flag".

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#345 - 2011-10-18 17:21:01 UTC
Again... THIS IS A COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CHANGE IN WORMHOLES!

1. Only the people that live there do the PI there. We won't be charging our own corp/alliance taxes for the fuel they're making to help keep the pos running.

2. Holes last a maximum of 24 hrs. If someone comes in and puts one reinforced, the hole will close before they can pop it. Even if they pop it, they gain nothing. So, it's either wasted time and aggravation to put one reinforced and never get to finish the job, or it's an added pain in the ass for someone moving into a new hole to have to clean these pieces of crap out in order to set up their own.

The whole concept completely fails in wormholes. Please consider leaving wormhole space out of this. It only works in areas of high traffic where you can have people that are in direct competition with each other trying to do PI on a particular planet. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN in wormholes!

C'mon CCP... THINK on this!

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Liandra Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#346 - 2011-10-18 17:21:35 UTC
Jake Centauri wrote:
The combat players love the change. The industrial players hate it. That about sums it up.


What do you think 0.0 producers mainly are? Industrialist in PVP alliances or PVP'ers doing industry on the side?

I don't know about all alliances but its certainly the latter mainly in our alliance, I think all producers can see the increased management is more than offset by CCP finally giving us "crops" to plant and burn. As long as they can remove Titans/Supercaps from dominating the fights then I think most 0.0 PI'ers can see this will result in a lot of fun fights.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#347 - 2011-10-18 17:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
5 brutix at 800dp * 5 minutes = 1.2 million HP. Choose what gang size you want terrorizing the countryside... Big smile

In any case, putting item in reinforce should be easier than killing it, because the fights never happen during the reinforcement period.
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#348 - 2011-10-18 17:22:05 UTC
Aynen wrote:
I've been doing Ninja wh PI for a while, and it's pretty hard to catch me in such a way that I won't find my way back in because I use multiple alts and I picked a system which isn't overly busy. If one of my toons explodes, I'll lose an Iteron, possibly with a cargo bay full of PI goods, but that's quite an acceptable loss since it happens so rarely.
My point is, I don't fear much for being permanently booted out of the system, and a little more chance of having to 'interact' with the locals is fine by me, will make it more exciting even. But that's from the perspetive of the ninja, not the locals. And the player owned costums office as described is exactly what they need to get rid of me entirely.
That probably wasn't the design goal.

I'm thinking, what if one can 'invest' in the loyalty of the costums office's personel? This would essencially mean that the more you 'invest', the larger the volume they will traffic for you. In other words, if you can pay for it, you can increase your share of the 'bandwith' so to speak. This means it'll cost a lot of money to make the station exclusively operate for your corporation, decreasing the total revenue you can attain from PI. If you want maximum revenue, you'll have to accept that others can use the station aswell.


I just wanted to add that the negotiations for these 'investments' could well take place in upcoming walking in stations features.
For a little extra synergy.
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#349 - 2011-10-18 17:22:11 UTC
Dominus Alterai wrote:
Chaos Incarnate wrote:
No. The offices already have so much HP and long enough timers that no one in their right mind is going to bother with them. Increasing it further is just going to make it even worse.


Apparently you've never seem the numerous capital/super-cap fleets wandering around low-sec for easy kills. Get a titan or a mom on these and they will put it into reinforced in under 5 minutes. Even if it only get's shot at by a sub-cap fleet of 20-30 battleships, the logistics involved with getting a fleet together from a non-pvp corp in order to defend it is horrendous. I don't really think I need to remind you that industrial corps are the majority of the PI producers.


You have the entire length of the reinforcement timer to get into position. That's what it's there for.
Januski
DeathGames Inc.
#350 - 2011-10-18 17:22:49 UTC
Personally i think this hits lowsec pretty bad, it will remove most of PI from there. And the prices will skyrocket nicely. In fact, i have shitload of PI stuff that i intented to sell this weekend, i guess i wait another month or so since i have no POSses..

Question: If i setup a POCO in lowsec, how detailed intel from my wallet i can get when haulers drop by in there to load/unload? Twisted
Shikaka Zulu
Jove Solutions
#351 - 2011-10-18 17:22:57 UTC
So you made the only industry thing you can do in 0.0 as a solo player in yet another thing that needs the backing of a corp/alliance organised infrastructure. PI was something nice and small that anyone could get into without a lot of hassle for the alliance. Now they will need to make deal about who gets what planet, how much tax, who is allowed to do PI etz etz etz.

Why not simple remove the "can only place PI on planet held by your alliance thing" ? then people can ninja drop PI anywhere and it all becomes about getting the stuff out safely.



Think its a horrible horrible choice.

PS. How will i be reimbursed for my skills? now i will need anchoring and corp management skills to do PI. Before i only needed the PI skills.
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#352 - 2011-10-18 17:23:29 UTC
dbrummer wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the mechanics of the Player Owned Customs Office. I'm part of a corp that lives out of NPC 0.0 space, how would this affect us? Are all of our existing PI installations going to be destroyed when this feature is enabled? If not, how do we get our goo off if there's no POCO anchored? I feel like we need more details on this change so we can fully understand the changes.

I'm like a few other people here and am very limited in my playing time but enjoy the passive income PI generates. If this change requires more time or makes it more difficult to make isk from PI then why use it? I'm just worried that the PI income I use to buy PvP ships will disappear.


Our ambition is that some entrepreneur will operate a COs in your system and thereby maintaining the service you currently enjoy. With some luck, the taxes will be lowered, with some bad luck they will be higher, but given that the market prices are likely to rise, you are probably going to make a good buck regardless. The main danger in your scenario is that you won't have access to the customs office, either if you are not meeting the standing requirements of the owner or if there simply is no CO there.

Regards
Omen

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison
Liandra Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#353 - 2011-10-18 17:23:57 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
5 brutix at 800dp * 5 minutes = 1.2 million HP. Choose what gang size you want terrorizing the countryside... Big smile

In any case, putting item in reinforce should be easier than killing it.


And just as quick for a small logi gang to rep back up in the next 24+ hours till it exits RF too. Theres going to be lots of back and forth on some of these, great fun :D
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#354 - 2011-10-18 17:26:38 UTC
Jake Centauri wrote:
The combat players love the change. The industrial players hate it. That about sums it up.


No, the combat players hate it too because it involves more shooting at structures with tons of hp, ie that thing we already hate about sov warfare and POSs
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#355 - 2011-10-18 17:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
The only thing I'm sceptical about is the ability to completely block access through standings — I feel that should rather be a determining factor for setting a different (higher) tax rate. Based on standing alone, it just becomes a little too easy to completely blockade a planet without incurring any costs.

The economic warfare of offensively large tariffs should be enough. If the enemy want to use that planet anyway and fund your war against them by paying those outrageous tariffs, then let them choose to do that. The idea of giving your opponent such a large cut, alone, should be enough to keep them away.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#356 - 2011-10-18 17:27:06 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
dbrummer wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the mechanics of the Player Owned Customs Office. I'm part of a corp that lives out of NPC 0.0 space, how would this affect us? Are all of our existing PI installations going to be destroyed when this feature is enabled? If not, how do we get our goo off if there's no POCO anchored? I feel like we need more details on this change so we can fully understand the changes.

I'm like a few other people here and am very limited in my playing time but enjoy the passive income PI generates. If this change requires more time or makes it more difficult to make isk from PI then why use it? I'm just worried that the PI income I use to buy PvP ships will disappear.


Our ambition is that some entrepreneur will operate a COs in your system and thereby maintaining the service you currently enjoy. With some luck, the taxes will be lowered, with some bad luck they will be higher, but given that the market prices are likely to rise, you are probably going to make a good buck regardless. The main danger in your scenario is that you won't have access to the customs office, either if you are not meeting the standing requirements of the owner or if there simply is no CO there.

Regards
Omen



lol your joking right, everyone will crank tax up and pos fuel price will go mental.

are you just trying to **** poeple off eve wide at ccp?

OMG when can i get a pic here
Liandra Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#357 - 2011-10-18 17:28:57 UTC
Chaos Incarnate wrote:
Jake Centauri wrote:
The combat players love the change. The industrial players hate it. That about sums it up.


No, the combat players hate it too because it involves more shooting at structures with tons of hp, ie that thing we already hate about sov warfare and POSs


Except you don't have to attack them, you could just use your own to generate fights when someone else comes to attack them. No-one is forcing you to attack others CO's unless you want to generate fights that way. C'mon you seriously trying to say CCP gives us crops to burn and PVP'ers are not going to like it? Man what are you smoking?
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#358 - 2011-10-18 17:29:11 UTC
Dominus Alterai wrote:
Mikron Alexarr wrote:
The overwhelming feeling I'm getting from this thread is: "Have you thought this through all the way?"

Please don't take this the wrong way. We do like the spirit of the feature. We the players simply feel this new feature could be abused severely. There are many cons and not many pros. Could the design team please take another conscious look at this feature taking all of the feedback into account before release?

I can see this turning into a threadnaught quite easily, because of the upcoming Dust release, among many other current, practical reasons. People care about PI, because it's something everyone can do. At least, it is in it's current state. We don't want that to change.


I think it's already become a threadnaught. lol

CCP Omen wrote:
You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.


OK, I'm just gonna come right out and say it....you guys really don't play your own game, do you? I mean, I think cruising around in Jove space with other GMs seems to have cut you off from what the spirit of eve is: screw over as many people as you can, getting as many ship kills as you can along the way. But seriously, people who control the customs offices will CERTAINLY deny access to people who don't have decent standings with them, or in the very least, hike the tax rate up to 90 - 100%. No one likes neutrals, or reds for that matter, flying around in their space.


Go look at the old forums and you'll see what a threadnaught was. Too many people these days ignore the forums. That combined with the fact that most threads get locked before they get too out of hand makes for relatively short threads these days.
Holy One
Privat Party
#359 - 2011-10-18 17:29:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy One
Well thats the end of PI for me then. I cba with all that bollocks. I did/do PI because it represents the least waste of my time for the most return.

I guess I'll just go do incursions like everyone else.

Anyone want to buy 5 PI alts? Evemail me.

edit: Aidditionally turning PI in to technetium ie a monopoly of the few seems counter to the entire appeal of PI. Finally, making PI a massive time sink, defeats the point of PI. Oh finally, finally, if that time sink is merely more tedious micro management and bullshit, duh. Err.

Game design? How about you design something that isn't bottomlessly tedious and unrewarding for a change?

:)
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#360 - 2011-10-18 17:31:29 UTC
Liandra Xi wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
5 brutix at 800dp * 5 minutes = 1.2 million HP. Choose what gang size you want terrorizing the countryside... Big smile

In any case, putting item in reinforce should be easier than killing it.


And just as quick for a small logi gang to rep back up in the next 24+ hours till it exits RF too. Theres going to be lots of back and forth on some of these, great fun :D


Lower the reinforced HP, the more offices can be reinforced in a given time. :) Hit and run at its finest.

Perhaps lower both so that it's easier for the blob to defend one PI structure, but make it more difficult to defend lots of them (your marauding gang warps in, pops a PI structure quickly, or ganks logi, then bails), etc... running battlefield, multiple locations of defence, stealth bombers cyno'ing into a system behind the lines and laying waste to it before the defenders can react.