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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Ay Liz
Perkone
Caldari State
#321 - 2011-10-18 17:04:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ay Liz
Is this a troll?

The structure grind in Sov-Warfare is bad enough and now you give us even more structures to shoot? I don't know if i should laugh or cry.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#322 - 2011-10-18 17:05:34 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
BeanBagKing wrote:


Ninja PI in 0.0 should be controllable, I mean if you OWN the system, you OWN it. In low sec, that's different of course.

CCP I do hope you increase the storage capacity of the warehouses (whatever it's called that isn't a launch pad).


I wasn't discussing anything about 0.0 in that post, but to respond, personally I say leave it an open system. Currently yes, in 0.0 you OWN a system. Does that stop people from ratting in your system? Setting up towers? Doing PI in it's current form? Owning a system doesn't mean sitting back and chilling because nobody can setup shop in said system, it grants some benefits, but you still have to get out there and pop a red POS if someone suddenly anchors one. I think custom offices should be the same way, but that's my personal opinion.


You make some interesting points here. There would be nothing lost by letting independents set up PCO in your space, as you could easily destroy them. I yield.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
#323 - 2011-10-18 17:06:21 UTC
Chaos Incarnate wrote:
No. The offices already have so much HP and long enough timers that no one in their right mind is going to bother with them. Increasing it further is just going to make it even worse.


Apparently you've never seem the numerous capital/super-cap fleets wandering around low-sec for easy kills. Get a titan or a mom on these and they will put it into reinforced in under 5 minutes. Even if it only get's shot at by a sub-cap fleet of 20-30 battleships, the logistics involved with getting a fleet together from a non-pvp corp in order to defend it is horrendous. I don't really think I need to remind you that industrial corps are the majority of the PI producers.

Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.

Steelshine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#324 - 2011-10-18 17:07:18 UTC
Quote:
=HP scpecification=
* Customs Office Gantry
** Shield: 10,000,000
** Armor: 500,000
** Structure: 300,000

* Customs Office
** Shield: 10,000,000
** Armor: 2,500,000
** Structure: 2,000,000



Sure will give those roaming gangs of supercaps something to do.



Are these intended as "small to medium gang objectives" or just another structure shoot that everyone will hate?
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#325 - 2011-10-18 17:07:20 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Aynen wrote:
Well, there goes my wormhole space Ninja-PI operation. I had all my alts set up in one wh system where they do PI even though the system is occupied by another corp with far superior numbers and capabilities. With these changes, my main source of income will be gone, which was substantial when all planets are running at capacity.

When these changes get onto TQ, the occupying corp will make the costums offices, and I won't have access anymore exept for the small canisters I can shoot into orbit.
Personally I'd have created a system where the ninja wh PI player can have his place, like having to bribe the costums officers or something.
Or, in favor of more interaction, building a temporary pirate station that will appear on overview in the system and takes 15 minutes to make ready for use, then, after a certain amount has been transfered through it, it blows up.
This way there's a bit more danger to Ninja-wh-PI and it creates an environment that stimulates pvp.


You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden? Question On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough.

If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope.



Really?!

Then why doesn't Coke allow Pepsi to use it's machines for a little extra dough?
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2011-10-18 17:08:56 UTC
If you want to make this a fun target for small gangs to tussle over, drop the price of the BPC to 500 LP and just 1,000,000 isk. You should be able to make back the investment in less than a week of PI. Easy to throw up, easy to destroy. If the initial investment is low, people will roll the dice and throw these things up everywhere. If it is a major investment, they won't.
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#327 - 2011-10-18 17:09:20 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Omen,

I hope you will seed some ready made customs ofices on the market for the first few days/weeks. There are a limited number of planets in the game, but there are obviously lots of people using several planets at the moment basically for free. In future you will have to manage in low/null/w-space the number of offices your corp puts up, and so on. However, immediately, this is going to cause a gigantic crunch in POS fuel supplies for a short while until gantries are rolled out, and the BPC's purchased with LP's, manufactured etc.

I say this as a w-space dweller. While I think it is way cool that there will be more things to shoot, and this is a buff for FW, there's also clearly a need for a rush of supply upon deployment. Eg, there are 9 planets in our wormhole system, we can probably trim down to using 5 of them. So we need 5 gantries and upgrade to 5 CO's. If we do not do this once you magically remove the CO's, we run out of POS fuel.

Great.

Other comments:
If you allow ANY form of defence to be anchored around CO's this will remove the ability, in w-space, of ganking people's PI haulers. I say this because your average corp will anchor a dissy and some small AC batteries around the office, and this is enough to gank anything stupid enough to decloak within range of the CO. Just sayin'

Second, the HP's are not too great, but still ridiculous for griefing unless you run medium or large gangs. We regularly bash small towers and it is a minimum of 2 hours with 6-8 BS's for a small tower. Clearing out a system in w-space after removing a corp's POS will become ridonkulously boring.

The reinforce timer idea is unfortunate. This means people can set the RF to come out during their prime time, which is defacto a way of waging RF timer warfare AFK. Second, it would be better to make it use stront, because that will consume stront.

To all those whining about this nerfing the lone operators: train Corporations skills to level 1, start your own corp, fling your PI alt in there, and get to it. Or suck the PI costs.





I am afraid we have no plans to seed any customs offices, except of course in high sec. One purpose with this blog is to give awareness of the materials needed to produce the customs office and the gantry so that concerned people may buy or produce those materials in advance. the same goes for loyalty points, if you are concerned about for instance the BPC prices, try and get the required LP in advance.

Regards
Omen

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison

F DeLeon
DeLeon Industries
#328 - 2011-10-18 17:10:38 UTC
What about making the costums offices the basis of the 0.0 sov warfare instead of TCUs. The alliance/corp who have more CO in a system owns the system. This way it could be easier to make connections between eve sov warfare and dust if the fights are going on around planets. Just an idea.

As a PI industrialist with 5 lvl5 characters I'm looking forward to the changes and the increased profit Cool
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#329 - 2011-10-18 17:10:42 UTC
since COs are now a service, there should be an easy way to discover those systemwide.

they compete via taxes and planet quality and don't have to be from the same corp. Something like the Science&Industry/installations would be needed for COs. (thinking on lowsec, since null is a different story)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

AMirrorDarkly
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#330 - 2011-10-18 17:10:51 UTC
While I think this is a great improvement and iteration in general, there is one or two things that concern me slightly.

I too am worried about inflation, I see all the arguments and I guess it is a suck and see kind of thing however.

1.) costs of running a tower will increase, a lot, this market sector is already seeing huge cost increases and now they are in line for more increases. How many items are produced in POS's rather than in Stations? Something only CCP can judge the effect of how many "businesses" will cease to run a tower as cost efficiency goes out the window. Squeezing middle industry and possibly causing hyper inflation as availability on the market sinks.

If this is the way forward then perhaps you may consider equalising the resources availability on planets in hisec so that low level indy corps still have access to materials at a decent level, this helps counteract the 2x fee from concord.

2.) I'm intrigued about low-sec, allowing corps to anchor their own is a bold step, and will either work really well, or as I suspect knowing how fellow eve pilots play in the sand box, really badly....

Forget the RP element of the empires having planets under the control of capsuleers (is there to be a tax by the empires for use of the orbital body in low-sec, like a POS charter in Hi-sec?)

I am all for Player control of the customs offices, reaping the rewards of taxes, gaining income from them, not sure I would vindicate corps and alliances being able to block access to the structures in low-sec, 0.0 I understand. I'm a PVP character by nature, but I do know several indy players who are worried and currently a good number of them do their PI in lowsec, and it is the only time they go into low-sec.

I can see, Pirate Corps and old 0.0 alliances displaced by the DRF dominance taking over the Low-sec Customs, just to make themselves feel better, if the DRF goons etc don't want them of course, looking at who's giving them tax in their corp wallet, adding the biggest yield players to their watch lists and ganking them anyway, don't have a huge problem with that persay, you are in low-sec you should have risk. But then also being able to cut off the lowsec planets from all but alliance members is asking for trouble, small time industrialists will not be able to compete with even a small PVP corp in putting their own office in place, so huge sections of the market will be isolated to who has the biggest stick. I hear you say, but it is in their own interests to keep these open so they can make profit on the exports, but we all know how force esclation works, someone somewhere will cut off a planet from anyone who isn't blue, next day everyone will have to do the same and, it won't be long before nearly all planet are set to +10 access only and these indy players will have no choice but to retreat back into hisec, basically you will be forcing more industry and players back into hisec, not enticing them to take more risks out in the wilderness, like is so desperatly needed.

Basically there seems to be little penalty/cost attributable to keeping the structures and a lot of benefits, how will you stop them becoming like ihub/station bashes (ie who can bring the biggest blob and attrision warfare) now just moved to lowsec?


In summary, I think the idea is great, but there will be several knock on effect on industry and market that may be undesirable.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#331 - 2011-10-18 17:10:56 UTC
You know... this is actually a pretty worthless change when it comes to wormholes. It makes no sense at all. Usually a single corp / alliance lives in a hole, and no one comes in from other systems to do PI. It's completely not feasible. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to change the way things work right now in wormholes. It really should be left as is in there.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Liandra Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2011-10-18 17:10:57 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Liandra Xi wrote:
The question I have is this: in 0.0 only the owning alliance who has sov in the system can use PI on the planets in the system anyway, so as far as I can tell the standings thing in 0.0 is useless, unless it now allows you to let allies use your planets where they couldn't before. Would love a proper confirmation on how that is intended to actually work in nullsec.


One of the undecided things still is if we throw out that old sov exclusivity in favor of the standings check on the PCO. Regardless of that though, what you can do in 0.0 is to ninja-launch a PCO in your enemy's space and set the standing requirement to +10. this way, your enemy alliance can't do import/export on the planet and must rely on cans until they can destroy your CO and put up their own.

Regards
Omen


Id like to strongly encourage you to ditch the standings requirement, and not go down that path of making the standings effectively irrelevant in nullsec, as the whole ninja-launch option really won't end up being that profitable and will only be done to get fights not do serious PI.
Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
#333 - 2011-10-18 17:11:28 UTC
How many hp does it have? Make it worth dropping dreads on. Using a few stealth bombers is too easy (especially in low sec where you can't bubble them). Make them spend hours chewing through the hp with their torps so their tears are extra sweet when you bring in carriers to rep it up in one triage cycle.
Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
#334 - 2011-10-18 17:12:24 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
That's not our intention, if you are a small corp you are very much the focus of this. But honestly, what if a large alliance takes control of a CO and charge you 9% tax? Isn't that fine? they provide the service, you pay for it and it's cheaper than highsec? Our assumption is that Alliances or any corp will want to make money off their CO in low-sec. If that assumption turns out to be wrong, then we might intervene with a future update.

Regards
Omen

This goes back to the main point that people who control these stations WILL make the tax rate astronomical for people that do not have standings with them. Also, defending them against larger alliances (TEST, NC., RA, xXDeathXx, etc.) will be impossible for the small corp. You are just making it easier for the larger, pvp oriented alliances to control the market and production.

Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.

Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#335 - 2011-10-18 17:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravcharas
Xython wrote:
Not to mention how many random roving annoyances will pop them just to be a jerk.

I don't think "pop" is the verb you're looking for. Ten dudes in ships averaging 500 dps each will need 25 minutes to put one office into reinforced. And that's not counting resists.
Handsome Hussein
#336 - 2011-10-18 17:12:48 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
That's not our intention, if you are a small corp you are very much the focus of this.

This feature does not, in any way, benefit smaller corps. If you mean smaller in the sense of 40 members, then maybe. But if you mean smaller in the casual "four IRL friends in a corp" way, there is absolutely no benefit. I have no hope of maintaining my own customs office in low-sec without a major alliance, and I rely on the goodwill and (mental) stability of the office owner to do PI on a "claimed" planet.

What this really does is remove a "job" avenue from casual players.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.

Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#337 - 2011-10-18 17:12:52 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Omen,

I hope you will seed some ready made customs ofices on the market for the first few days/weeks. There are a limited number of planets in the game, but there are obviously lots of people using several planets at the moment basically for free. In future you will have to manage in low/null/w-space the number of offices your corp puts up, and so on. However, immediately, this is going to cause a gigantic crunch in POS fuel supplies for a short while until gantries are rolled out, and the BPC's purchased with LP's, manufactured etc.

I say this as a w-space dweller. While I think it is way cool that there will be more things to shoot, and this is a buff for FW, there's also clearly a need for a rush of supply upon deployment. Eg, there are 9 planets in our wormhole system, we can probably trim down to using 5 of them. So we need 5 gantries and upgrade to 5 CO's. If we do not do this once you magically remove the CO's, we run out of POS fuel.

Great.

Other comments:
If you allow ANY form of defence to be anchored around CO's this will remove the ability, in w-space, of ganking people's PI haulers. I say this because your average corp will anchor a dissy and some small AC batteries around the office, and this is enough to gank anything stupid enough to decloak within range of the CO. Just sayin'

Second, the HP's are not too great, but still ridiculous for griefing unless you run medium or large gangs. We regularly bash small towers and it is a minimum of 2 hours with 6-8 BS's for a small tower. Clearing out a system in w-space after removing a corp's POS will become ridonkulously boring.

The reinforce timer idea is unfortunate. This means people can set the RF to come out during their prime time, which is defacto a way of waging RF timer warfare AFK. Second, it would be better to make it use stront, because that will consume stront.

To all those whining about this nerfing the lone operators: train Corporations skills to level 1, start your own corp, fling your PI alt in there, and get to it. Or suck the PI costs.





I am afraid we have no plans to seed any customs offices, except of course in high sec. One purpose with this blog is to give awareness of the materials needed to produce the customs office and the gantry so that concerned people may buy or produce those materials in advance. the same goes for loyalty points, if you are concerned about for instance the BPC prices, try and get the required LP in advance.

Regards
Omen


"FYI, we're going to introduce a game changing/breaking mechanic. Your input is not being considered. Thank you for buying into the idea that we care."

That's the only thing I got from that response.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#338 - 2011-10-18 17:14:43 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:


If you allow ANY form of defence to be anchored around CO's this will remove the ability, in w-space, of ganking people's PI haulers. I say this because your average corp will anchor a dissy and some small AC batteries around the office, and this is enough to gank anything stupid enough to decloak within range of the CO. Just sayin'




I think this could be addressed easily. Allow defenses to be setup. But those defenses can only be set to defend attack. IE someone could decloak in range and nothing happens. Someone could get ganked in range and nothng happens. But anyone who attacks the CO gets popped.

Reservefj40
Rapier Innovations
#339 - 2011-10-18 17:14:49 UTC
Manssell wrote:


Really?!

Then why doesn't Coke allow Pepsi to use it's machines for a little extra dough?



WINBig smile
Reservefj40
Rapier Innovations
#340 - 2011-10-18 17:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Reservefj40
Stupid double post.Big smile