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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#341 - 2012-10-11 20:24:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now i get what that meant ...............................
I believe outlaws won't be able to sell killrights ....................................... :(
There'd be lots of opportunity for me to entertain the locals of hek, if that was possible .........
I don't see anything in the blog saying that they can't. It's more a matter of them having a harder time actually getting killrights to sell since, being outlaws, they're usually legal targets so attacking them won't trigger the C-flag that would give them the killright. If they manage to be illegally attacked, they should be able to sell it as well as anyone else.

*laughs*
Okay, they might not have noted it in the devblog, but as outlaws can be attacked without raising the C-flag,
they will not be able to sell killrights. bummer ... people would have loved this ...
Wish CCP would - at least for once - listen to those who care about entertaining the masses.
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#342 - 2012-10-11 20:25:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Strata Maslav wrote:
Ok so here in the new scenario based on this: FLAGS

Once you are engaged you fight back. If they engage in number in come the logistics. By assisting you with [Suspect] Flag they themselves become [Suspect] flagged, but they are able to rep you. You kill off the attackers. Loot their ships and wait for more to show up.
Sure, but sooner or later, someone is going to get wind of that could of free-for-all logis and scrounge up a fleet to run in there and do some actual damage…

…and either way, more pew-pew so, yay! P


The beauty of the alt kill rights is at anytime you can jump into a T1 shipr use the kill rights on your alt and be killed. Obviously the downside is that in order to restart the kill rights you will need to attack your alt and take another sec loss.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#343 - 2012-10-11 20:27:04 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
In short... you get free logistics from corp mates, alliance mates, and militia mates!!!

Please see the dev comment:
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec
Ah, ok. I've missed that comment. So yes, that indeed makes life a bit harder for the suspect.

I'll try to help you shout that one down… Straight
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#344 - 2012-10-11 20:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Lorenzio
EXCELLENT BLOG ABOUT EXCELLENT CHANGES!

Big smileSmileShockedCoolLolPEvilTwistedRollBlinkAttentionPirateBear

Some comments after browsing the thread:

  • Bounty contributors should remain anonymous. People will use alts anyway if they want to stay anon.
  • Getting ISK back if a corporation or alliance disbands worries me a lot. You paid to force that corporation to close down and disband, you should not get the ISK back. It will be open to abuse with larger corps/alliances using the bounty system to force smaller corps to disband and get the ISK back.
  • I can see a lot of scammers using alts to get kill rights and selling them on their tanked out ships outside Jita to get people to purchase said kill rights just to make ISK and then dock, FREE ISK! Worse they could bait an attack in a more isolated location and use logis to counter the aggressor in a seemingly weak ship, FREE ISK AND KILLS! But that's EVE, like you said, buyer beware, and you should be prepared for the unexpected and know what you're doing. Not every random passerby should be killing ppl with kill rights for sale.
  • And lastly, where the hell is CCP SoniClover on this thread so we can shower him with likes for an excellent blog???

Other than the part on getting back bounty if the corps disband, I love the changes! Keep them coming

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
TWHC Assistant
#345 - 2012-10-11 20:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: TWHC Assistant
I can put a bounty onto every new EVE player to grief them anonymously, and I have the chance of seeing my ISKs return after I made them quit?

Is this correct?

Lol

As funny as this is, will CCP probably have to change this in a few years once they realize that it was thoughtless and a bit stupid again, because it makes for a terrible new player experience. People always bring real world morale into a game and want to apply it, because it is intuitive. And others are already asking how to remove it with minimum loss possibly because they find it offensive...

The rest of the mechanic seem to be good though.
Karsa Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#346 - 2012-10-11 20:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Karsa Egivand
So many cool things in there.

Esp. the on-the-fly buying of kill-rights. Shocked

Awesome (and also slightly scary... ).


I also like the structure bounties, but I'd hold back on that until you (hopefully in the next expansion after Retribution) introduce the new POSes. Link it with that and quickly (over the 2nd next expansion or so), simply phase out the old POS-system.

Also, yay for salvage drones. Back to ninja salvaging/looting, me thinks. Cool

Only thing I don't approve of is the "get back your money if unsubscribed/inactive/disbanded". Why? If it's only in there so you can't actually put a bounty on already inactive characters... couldn't that be handled in a different fashion?
Reticle
Sight Picture
#347 - 2012-10-11 20:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Reticle
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Reticle wrote:


I'm not sure either of you "gets it." Do the math. Do you have any idea what kind of bounty you'd have to place to make it worth it for a single gank? Remember, the gankers get paid only a portion of the total. So that portion must equal or exceed the cost of the gank. But here's the thing, it doesn't end there. Now the ganked player has kill rights on all of the gankers. Or better yet, he sets up his own alts to get the bounty payout by getting a noob alt to kill his insured ship in some quiet corner of null sec.



Say your target has spent 1billion on a top range PvE ship. That means the pay out will be: 20,000,000.

To gank a ship like this you'll need help, so you bring 3 mates.

Total bounty payout: 5,000,000isk each.


Doesn't really seem worth it....


200m is 20% of 1bn. 200m is more than 20m.

Payout will be the bounty on top of whatever bling drops from a 1bn isk PvE ship. Not to mention a juicy killmail - which is the primary motivator of a lot of PvPers.

In the described scenario, bounty is just the icing on the cake. Or the flag which alerts you to a juicy target.

Will you be taking down this PvE ship in high sec? I'm pretty sure any PvE ship worth 1billion ISK is going to have reasonably high EHP. You're going to need more than 3 friends (or you're going to making an investment in DPS and a bigger ship) to take down the PvE ship. A lot will depend on the system sec status, but basically you're going to have serious time issues .7 and up and pretty tight constraints in .6/.5. Not only will you be racing Concord, you'll be racing everyone else nearby (your flags will be active and keep in mind that you'll already have activated the killrights with the first shot), plus station/gate guns if you're doing it in those locations. A jam or two or the loss of a ship early in the cycle and your op is over, no soup for you, you'll lose the ships, get flagged, and give up kill rights to the PvE pilot on each involved party. (Protip to missioners with bounties: bring one caldari noob in a noob ship and profit). The scenario you've presented also assumes that a ship with a bounty would be dumb enough to fit valuable mods in the first place. It also assumes that someone is going to be putting 1 bill ISK bounties on PvE pilots who mind their own business. Someone has to pay for that bounty; it isn't free.

Not many pvpers go to high sec for suicide gank killmails on which their losses exceed their gains.

edit: But if someone did put the bounty on you, just insure some battleships and have your noob alt kill you in WH, null, etc.
Ray Hellguard
X-COM
#348 - 2012-10-11 20:52:20 UTC
good stuff. almost good enough to get me to re-sub.

keep it going - while you revamp that old stuff remember to ADD NEW CONTENT. I hope to get back and enjoy new features some day.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2012-10-11 20:59:24 UTC
Reticle wrote:
['m pretty sure any PvE ship worth 1billion ISK is going to have reasonably high EHP. You're going to need more than 3 friends (or you're going to making an investment in DPS and a bigger ship) to take down the PvE ship.

You're pretty sure, but don't actually know it.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17664386

There are plenty of these. I know it's not API verified, but it's enough to show that
expensive ships not necessarily have high EHP. Actually, there is no reason to believe that.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#350 - 2012-10-11 21:07:41 UTC
Reticle wrote:

It also assumes that someone is going to be putting 1 bill ISK bounties on PvE pilots who mind their own business. Someone has to pay for that bounty; it isn't free.

Not many pvpers go to high sec for suicide gank killmails on which their losses exceed their gains.

edit: But if someone did put the bounty on you, just insure some battleships and have your noob alt kill you in WH, null, etc.


Sorry, but anyone who has pissed off the null sec alliances is going to have big big bounties on them.
The nut job leader of the goons tried griefing a high sec CSM member out of the game because she had the guts to call him out over his behaviour at Fanfest.

If they can replace supercaps within minutes, why do you think they will not stop at creating a 1 trillion ISK fund for bounties on players that cross them? 100 bounties of 10 billion each would be nothing for these guys.

Further, anyone who has been involved in FW LP farming for any length of time is a billionaire many many times over.

There are all kinds of people who can fund vendettas to grief players out of the game.
And as for killing yourself with an alt, you lose large coin every time you do that with the 20% cap on ship value.
Dex Tera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#351 - 2012-10-11 21:15:58 UTC
CCP RedDawn wrote:
This new feature should come with a brand new bounty hunter helmet that is free on the NeX.

Just a thought.


YES THIS !!!OMG PLZPLZPLZ BE COOL FOR ONCE CCP GIVE US STUFF

things we need in nex store

hats / helmets ala vader / bobafett style lololol
gloves
armored suits caldari used to have cool armor but you took it way WHY! Q_Q
the spz torch NOW gdamit!!!
red/black latex suit that was on sisi a while ago you know the one from the orginal incarna trailerss
skirts that are short
more boots
BAD ASS canes cause you know i have to get my pimp walk on in station PWIS! lol
cyberntic arms and legs let us make our selvs look like this dood
tattoos
your entire line of rl shrits and hoodies buy one in rl get a one for your toon deal!!!
more implant like stuff like a pantom of the opera style half faceplate thingy thats al cyber punkish
also some of us smoke in rl so how bout leting us have a cig or a pipe in our mouth i mean tabbaco is in game but i would most likely like to have the option to take a pic with me taking a huge hit of my test bong yaknow so ppl would know what im all bout when the see my pic lololol SPACESHIPS AND PURPLE HAZE MOFOS!!!!

thats all for now
Nemesis44
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#352 - 2012-10-11 21:22:39 UTC
As mostly a karebear, I think all this stuff sounds pretty cool. My first suggestion would be to put a delay on when a KR is sold to when it can be used, and have the person with the KR on them notified that it has switched hands. I'm thinking like war notifications from CONCORD, and for the same reason. You should always be allowed to know who can legally shoot you in high sec, with enough warning to prepare. With the system as stated, once you got a KR on you, you would never be able to fly anything but PVP ships because anyone at any time can legally attack you with almost no warning (obviously at some variable cost to the attacker).

I'd also suggest that once a KR has been bought, it then becomes a solo affair like in the current system. It makes sense to allow the first person to use a gang to fulfill a KR because there is currently no recourse for a low SP newb to have any real shot at vengeance on a skilled PVP'er. But buying KR's is a choice, and in my mind should only be a venture taken on by someone that knows what they are doing and thus should have the skill to take the target 1 v 1.

Also, if you want to promote bounty hunting as a viable career, make people with KR's (earned or bought) get a higher percentage of the bounty on a person. That way someone could get killed, put a bounty on their killer, and give the KR to a bounty hunter that goes and collects it (at a higher rate than 20% to add incentive and protect the victim's wallet a bit).

Overall though, some great ideas that I trust will have the kinks ironed out and add a lot
J Kunjeh
#353 - 2012-10-11 21:26:03 UTC
While I'm very happy to finally see some good work being done on bounties and kill-rights, I'm aware of just how huge these changes will be and I'm not entirely sure this has been thought through carefully. Granted, you're throwing this out there to get feedback from the players, so I can only hope you're listening intently, taking copious notes, and going back to the drawing board with suggestions at the ready. There have been a ton of good suggestions and valid concerns brought up in this thread (and I'm only 13 pages in) and I hope they're being taken seriously.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
KiithSoban
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#354 - 2012-10-11 21:30:24 UTC
I too, want to see who put a bounty on me.

If i put a bounty on some1 i want them to KNOW who did it and I want it to stay on record forever! Display this publicly for all players to see. We can have personal records, alliance records, and corp records. That way if i place a bounty on them, they can hate my guts for the rest of the time they play EVE! Also, being an avid lowsec pirate myself, i take pride when people put a bounty on me because it makes me look more terrifying. A long record of bounties placed would be a badge of honor and respect =)

Oh! Be sure to sum the total bounties placed over a lifetime for every player, corp, and alliance and the number of people that put those bounties on that player, corp, or alliance. Divide the former by the latter to get the average bounty size placed. That would be awesome! You know that respect thing i was talking about? A large average bounty size would be a thing to boast about! This wouldn't be very hard to implement, just store it in a text file. I know you would hate to add more things to store on your servers but tampering with this data would be a no-no.

This is about revenge right? I want to start a CHAIN of revenge muhahahaha! May the person who wants to blow the most isk win =)

I want to see logi appear on killmails! (by just repping)  See CSM "reasonable things"
Susan Black
Ice Fire Warriors
#355 - 2012-10-11 21:35:20 UTC
Will killrights be reset for the expansion? Or will killrights acquired before the expansion carry over?

www.gamerchick.net @gamerchick42
J Kunjeh
#356 - 2012-10-11 21:40:00 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:

Hey... what about allowing people to buy their bounty off, or just reduce it? ISK paid could be returned directly to the person that placed the bounty, or just donate it directly to the CONCORD children's fund (ISK sink).


Very interesting idea. How about it CCP and fellow spacenerds?

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#357 - 2012-10-11 21:51:40 UTC
This all sounds VERY exciting for me. Anything that leads to more player vs player interactions and blown up ships and modules is a boon for my corporation.

We are just proud to be able to provide players with more ships, modules and ammo to continue their EVE enjoyment. This is going to be GREAT!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#358 - 2012-10-11 22:02:02 UTC

While I'm excited that suicide ganking in highsec and podding in lowsec generates buyable killrights... I'd like to see additional means to generate killrights.

Perhaps broaden it so everything that generates a Sec Status hit enable killrights....

Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#359 - 2012-10-11 22:12:04 UTC
Gotta say, I like this idea. As a regular carebear I can see this being a good way for me to dip my toes in the PvP pool, so to speak.

One point to mention, folks seem worried about getting a max 20% payout. How about letting the bounty-hunter rank give some bonus toward how big of a % you get? Top ranked hunter (one player in all the eve universe) gets 75%, next rank gets some less percentage, and so on and so forth until your "rank and file" bounty hunter is at the 20% level again.

I mean if you're gonna make this a profession, I ought to be paid more to do it if I'm the best (which i won't be...but others...) than Joe Schmoe (a.k.a. Dr Cedric, the bounty hunter) who just dabbles at it every now and again.

Heck, may as well ad a skill book to the mix. Each level adds to your personal % max of payout for a bounty? Whaddya say?

Cedric
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#360 - 2012-10-11 22:16:15 UTC
"Kill Rights will now be created at the same time a Criminal flag is put on a player, but only for attacking in hi sec or podding in low sec."

If that is the case, a very low number of people will actually get kill rights making the kill rights market system pointless if no one has any killrights for sale.

Podding is very rare in low sec because bubbles are no allowed and suicide ganking in high sec is equally rare, especially since all the suicide ganking nerfs and no more hulkageddon.

Give killrights for ship destruction in low sec or else all of this work is going to be wasted.