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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#301 - 2012-10-11 19:18:30 UTC
Strata Maslav wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
All of this would be so much more fun if i could just buy the right to kill somebody,
regardless if he ever aggressed somebody or not.

Oh my, it would be one beautiful massacre, all day long ....


The best thing is you can put a kill rite on your own head and bait fights.

1) Attack Alt in nub ship
2) Use alt to put 20 mil kill rite on your head.
3) Put a bounty on your head for 20% of the cost of you ship.
4) Sit there in your 100mil ship waiting for someone to attack you hoping to make a quick easy 40mil
5) Dont die for 15 minutes (Run away/fight back??)
6)??
7) 20mil Profit
8) Do this for 30 days
9)Repeat

This sounds very interesting, although i'd have to rely on a friend to do this, as i don't use alts.
The other issues is that i definitely don't fly hundred million ISK ships,
because that would be ridiculous. Not dieing for hours is easy. (no, not hiding in station ^_^)

otoh, i still have a donated cynabal that lacks use .......................................

I don't care about the money i could make ... i want more people to shoot at, all by myself. ^_^
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#302 - 2012-10-11 19:18:40 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
If you have a 2b bounty on your head.... then, to redeem that bounty with ONE LOSS, your ship would need to be worth 10 billion... Guess what... people will already gank your if you're carrying that much, so very little is changing for you..

The only thing that is at all changed is the "minimum value" you can safely haul before it becomes worthwhile to gank you. And frankly, its working as intended... don't be an asshat and people won't place large bounties on you!!!!

But that's the point: one can get a bounty placed on them for any reason, even for lols, which bored people with piles of ISK will do.

At 20% of a large enough bounty, I would consider grinding down the bounty to a less inviting level, with my alts getting the kills, drops, and salvage. It would cost me ISK to do that, but I'd be willing to pay.

Hey... what about allowing people to buy their bounty off, or just reduce it? ISK paid could be returned directly to the person that placed the bounty, or just donate it directly to the CONCORD children's fund (ISK sink).


When people suicide gank, any bounties on your head will be a MINOR part of the reason.... You could have a 1 trillion isk bounty... and it won't change the profitability of ganking you but for a small fraction....

People don't go after targets that are marginally profitable... they go after targets that are blatantly profitable...
TWHC Assistant
#303 - 2012-10-11 19:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: TWHC Assistant
Valeo Galaem wrote:
TWHC Assistant wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I am confused.
I have read the dev blog twice.
I see the part in the blog where the -1 sec status requirement has been removed, so that makes me think anyone in the game, in any sec area, can have a bounty on them, and be a target if someone if some bounty hunter is willing to accept high sec consequences of Concord.

So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?


I don't see how that's different than just ganking him over and over without the bounty?

Ganking costs you sec status and is considered a criminal act.

You still fail to see how this is different?


Do you?

Claiming a bounty does not make you immune to sec penalties.

Do I what??

Placing a bounty on someone's head for real certainly is a crime.

And remote repping, which causes no damage, willl soon make you suspect under CrimeWatch2.

So why is placing a bounty not a crime when it is compared to ganking? Why the twisted morale here?
Hard King
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2012-10-11 19:20:34 UTC
wait ...

Quote:
Bounties are public, same as now. This means anyone can claim a bounty. Claiming a bounty is based on Final Blow. If you’re in a fleet and get bounty, the bounty is shared between the fleet members.

[...]

Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target.



so... i see someone with a bounty and a buyable killright in space. I pay 20mio to buy the killright , activate it and start fighting the guy. The moment the guy drops in structure a nearby Tornado kills him with one volley ,gets the bounty and i get NOTHING ? Rly ?
Megan DeMonet
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#305 - 2012-10-11 19:21:16 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
[quote=Gizznitt Malikite]

At 20% of a large enough bounty, I would consider grinding down the bounty to a less inviting level, with my alts getting the kills, drops, and salvage. It would cost me ISK to do that, but I'd be willing to pay.


do you guys not get it, YOU DO NOT GET 20% OF THE BOUNTY! you get 20% of what you destroy.

"The bounty payout is based on a percentage of the Total Loss, so the bounty received will always be considerably less than the actual Total Loss value. The base number we’re going for right now is 20%. This means that if you blow something up worth 100 million, then 20 million is paid out in bounty (or whatever is left in the bounty pool if less than 20 million)."<----copied and pasted

A Priest, a Rabbi, and an Imam walk into a bar......
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#306 - 2012-10-11 19:22:45 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
1. When you buy a kill right, you do so in space when you can see the target of the kill right and the suspect flag is activated immediately. Think of it more like a hunting license than a commodity that changes hands. You paid for the opportunity of a kill, not a guarantee.


How will this not end in a downward spiral with nobody left who has killrights on him ?

Do you believe that the bountysystem will balance this,
in the hope that people will try to kill others for bounty ?

If so, do you believe this will not end in people just using even more alts for ganking all the time,
which ultimately leads to even less consequences for those killing others ?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#307 - 2012-10-11 19:23:23 UTC
Hard King wrote:
wait ...

Quote:
Bounties are public, same as now. This means anyone can claim a bounty. Claiming a bounty is based on Final Blow. If you’re in a fleet and get bounty, the bounty is shared between the fleet members.

[...]

Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target.



so... i see someone with a bounty and a buyable killright in space. I pay 20mio to buy the killright , activate it and start fighting the guy. The moment the guy drops in structure a nearby Tornado kills him with one volley ,gets the bounty and i get NOTHING ? Rly ?




Yes really....

The killrights are bought to allow legal aggression by everyone on them...
The bounty is rewarded to you & your fleet for actually killing him...

this is fine.... If you are after the bounty... don't kill him in a public spot...
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#308 - 2012-10-11 19:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Evei Shard
Let me see if I understand this right.

You can place a bounty on any player/corp/alliance.
There is no sec status requirement anymore for placing the bounty.
Standard crimewatch rules will still apply.


So how does this not become a complete replacement of the insurance for ganking?

Just place a bounty on your target?

Pay 10mil for gank Catalyst. Add 5mil bounty. Gank the target, scoop loot, salvage, and collect the new form of insurance.

Am I missing part of it that will prevent this?


*edit for grammar*

Profit favors the prepared
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#309 - 2012-10-11 19:24:32 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
People don't go after targets that are marginally profitable... they go after targets that are blatantly profitable...

Your generalization is faulty.
I don't care about money. I just fry everything i can, disregarding profits of the attempt to kill somebody.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#310 - 2012-10-11 19:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Reticle wrote:
You're forgetting that a pilot with a bounty on his head is highly unlikely to fit officer mods and such. But you keep dreaming of that awesome kill.

20% of the destroyed value of the hull and fittings (and the pod if you catch it!) up to the value of the bounty is a good chunk, you don't need an idiot pilot fitting officer mods to make a bounty gank profitable. But, you know, keep dreaming that you're safe with a bounty on your head.

E: Also, as I stated earlier, if you are restricting yourself to flying cheap ships because of a bounty the bounty placer might consider that "punishment" enough.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#311 - 2012-10-11 19:26:19 UTC
Love the changes!

I would like to see some iteration on bringing kill rights and bounty hunting together a little bit in the future.

An idea: If the bounty gets to a certain $$ threshold (perhaps hidden) there is a chance that a kill right is produced so that certain people would have to be on the lookout in empire space as well.

Anyways, keep up the good work. I am happy you are iterating on all of my ideas :)

Riedle
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#312 - 2012-10-11 19:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tau Cabalander wrote:
At 20% of a large enough bounty, I would consider grinding down the bounty to a less inviting level, with my alts getting the kills, drops, and salvage. It would cost me ISK to do that, but I'd be willing to pay.
…but it's not the size of the bounty that makes it inviting — it's the cost of your ship. You're not getting 20% of the bounty; you're getting 20% of the kill value (or the full bounty, if it's lower). You could have a trillion ISK bounty and still be a completely worthless target.

Grinding the bounty level down yourself makes no difference whatsoever until it's well below the cost of ganking the ship you intend to fly.

Solstice Project wrote:
As i noted above, there will be people with killrights in highsec for a while,
but that'll spiral down to zero.
Yes? Why is that a problem? It means people are exercising their kill rights rather than let them sit untouched. This is a good thing.

Evei Shard wrote:
Let me see if I understand this right.

You can place a bounty on any player/corp/alliance.
There is no sec status requirement anymore for placing the bounty.
Standard crimewatch rules will still apply.

So how does this not become a complete replacement of the insurance for ganking?
By not being dependent on how much your ship costs, but on how much the target is worth, and by being paid for by players rather than NPCs. So neither the availability nor the pay-out is nearly as ensured as insurance was.
CCP Tallest
C C P
C C P Alliance
#313 - 2012-10-11 19:27:25 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A couple other questions....
1.) Can I have multiple killrights on the same person at the same time??? (assuming they deserve it!)
2.) Can a person have multiple killrights on them simultaneously????
2.a) Assuming you can have multiple killrights on the same person, how do you determine which killrights is used first? The one that is cheapest? The one that expires the soonest? Do they all get used up at once in some type of combined killright???
3.) If I kill a suspect that has the potential for killrights, but the killirghts were never activated, I'd like confirmation that their killrights will not be altered.
4.) If I "redeem" killrights on a person, they go suspect, and get away... the killrights are not "used up". But does the money I spent to activate the killrights get returned to me??


1.) No. You only have 1 kill right for each person who has criminally attacked you. If the same person criminally attacks you again, the expiration date of your kill right will be extended.

2.) Yes.

2.a) If multiple kill rights for the same person are for sale, the cheapest one is sold (activated) first and other kill rights cannot be activated while he has the suspect flag active.

3.) I do not understand this statement.

4.) If they get away, the kill right is not "used up" and the ISK stays with the seller. Buyer beware.

[b]★ EVE Game Designer ★ ♥ Team Super Friends ♥[/b]
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#314 - 2012-10-11 19:27:37 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
1. When you buy a kill right, you do so in space when you can see the target of the kill right and the suspect flag is activated immediately. Think of it more like a hunting license than a commodity that changes hands. You paid for the opportunity of a kill, not a guarantee.


How much notification with the target of the kill right get that he's being turned suspect? There needs to not only be the big suspect flag at the top, but you need to also throw up at least a text notification saying some dude just bought your kill right and this is why you're suspect. You should also make this message appear if your mouse over the suspect flag.

If you don't throw that in, expect your GM department getting tons of petitions regarding people 'magically going suspect' because they didn't fully read your dev blogs/patch notes.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#315 - 2012-10-11 19:27:44 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
Let me see if I understand this right.

You can place a bounty on any player/corp/alliance.
There is no sec status requirement anymore for placing the bounty.
Standard crimewatch rules will still apply.


So how does this not become a complete replacement of the insurance for ganking?

Just place a bounty on your target?

Pay 10mil for gank Catalyst. Add 5mil bounty. Gank the target, scoop loot, salvage, and collect the new form of insurance.

Am I missing part of it that will prevent this?


*edit for grammar*


So... you spend 5mil to put a bounty on a ship... and then you get that 5m back when you blow it up.... There's no gain there!!
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#316 - 2012-10-11 19:30:46 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
3.) If I kill a suspect that has the potential for killrights, but the killirghts were never activated, I'd like confirmation that their killrights will not be altered.


3.) I do not understand this statement.


He's asking that if character A is the target of a kill right, but goes suspect for stealing a can (but not having the kill right activated), and character B kills him, will the kill right against character A expire.

Both Gizznitt and I assume that it will not be used, but he would like confirmation this is the case.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#317 - 2012-10-11 19:31:07 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A couple other questions....
1.) Can I have multiple killrights on the same person at the same time??? (assuming they deserve it!)
2.) Can a person have multiple killrights on them simultaneously????
2.a) Assuming you can have multiple killrights on the same person, how do you determine which killrights is used first? The one that is cheapest? The one that expires the soonest? Do they all get used up at once in some type of combined killright???
3.) If I kill a suspect that has the potential for killrights, but the killirghts were never activated, I'd like confirmation that their killrights will not be altered.
4.) If I "redeem" killrights on a person, they go suspect, and get away... the killrights are not "used up". But does the money I spent to activate the killrights get returned to me??


1.) No. You only have 1 kill right for each person who has criminally attacked you. If the same person criminally attacks you again, the expiration date of your kill right will be extended.

2.) Yes.

2.a) If multiple kill rights for the same person are for sale, the cheapest one is sold (activated) first and other kill rights cannot be activated while he has the suspect flag active.

3.) I do not understand this statement.

4.) If they get away, the kill right is not "used up" and the ISK stays with the seller. Buyer beware.


1.) Sadness...
2.) Kewl...
2a.) Fair enough...

3.) I just wanted confirmation that public killrights must first be activated before redeemed.... but common sense tells me they do... so nevermind...

4.) This is AWESOME!!!!!!
StarRanger 2ndClass
Royal Star Ranger Family
#318 - 2012-10-11 19:31:18 UTC  |  Edited by: StarRanger 2ndClass
Quote:
We’re aiming to continue to use the Billboards and CQs to show Most Wanted status.


Are the Billboards going to give the names of Most Wanted in that region of space or just in general?

Also, it would be cool if you could access a Billboard to see if the guy your looking for came through the system recently so you can try to track them. Twisted
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#319 - 2012-10-11 19:33:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Evei Shard wrote:
Let me see if I understand this right.

You can place a bounty on any player/corp/alliance.
There is no sec status requirement anymore for placing the bounty.
Standard crimewatch rules will still apply.


So how does this not become a complete replacement of the insurance for ganking?

Just place a bounty on your target?

Pay 10mil for gank Catalyst. Add 5mil bounty. Gank the target, scoop loot, salvage, and collect the new form of insurance.

Am I missing part of it that will prevent this?


*edit for grammar*


Well in order to make back that 5mil bounty the target would have to have a bounty on them from someone else.

If you put a 5mil bounty on someone and kill them in a 25mil ship you net nothing from the bounty and you will be in the hole for 10mil.

The only way to break even is you are ganking a +50mil ship with a +10mil bounty on his head with a 10mil catalyst.
He dies, +10mil to you, then you die -10mil to you. So your net gain is based on how much above 50mil his ship is.

kill a 60mil ship with a 10mil Catalyst will net you 2mil for the kill.- Probably not worth your time.
kill a 200mil ship with a 10mil Catalyst and as long he has the bounty from another person to compensate you and you will receive 40mil
- a 30mil profit.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#320 - 2012-10-11 19:33:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
By not being dependent on how much your ship costs, but on how much the target is worth, and by being paid for by players rather than NPCs. So neither the availability nor the pay-out is nearly as ensured as insurance was.


Ok. That makes more sense than how I was thinking it works.

Profit favors the prepared