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Career for stealth skills ?

Author
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-10-03 09:33:24 UTC
Found the link I was looking for:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=130755#post130755

NightCrawler made a great thread about how to find the right corp for you (if you want to join oneP)

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Jesuis Cache-Cache
#22 - 2012-10-03 12:54:18 UTC
Highland Cream wrote:
Vatueil Bererund wrote:
Just a thanks for this thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one (not comfortable with joining a corporation just yet, voice comms and buying a clone I won't fill into for a long while yet). We're all individuals Lol

There's also another aspect: I'm 44 years old and would find it very difficult to deal with young gamers (I think, although most players I've chatted to so far have been reasonably normal) too often. Wonder if there's a geriatric corp...

I've kept my eye on corporations by checking info on local chat characters, and there seem to be corporations that are relaxed enough for my liking. May take the plunge soon.


I can't quote whatever I do in eve but I play mainly to my own rules with myself or a few people in small fleets, none of them I know in real life and we all have fun...

I think you will find a lot of players are of your age group, me I am over 50 (perhaps a mental age of 14 though), play with a lot of people around my age but still hang around with the youngsters... They aren't too bad if you can put up with f@ck every other word...

As for corps, yes most are a pain in the ass. Finding a good corp with mature players is very much trial and error, remember you need to do what you enjoy..

Clones, do update your medical clone regardless of play type. If your medical clone does not cover the level of skill points you have and you make a mistake and get podded (happens in hi-sec) you WILL LOSE skill points...

Ah...we are not alone. I feel what you guys / gals are saying. I am pushing 60 and just don't think I can cope with the voice comm of 10 children.

Their gameplay amounts to coming home, nukin' some ravioli, getting online and screaming obscenities until the guardian arrives.

It's like taking your ex-wife deer hinting...Total immersion breaker...

"I know a man who gave up smoking, drinking, sex, and rich food. He was healthy right up to the time he killed himself." - Johnny Carson 

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-10-03 13:06:18 UTC
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Highland Cream wrote:
Vatueil Bererund wrote:
Just a thanks for this thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one (not comfortable with joining a corporation just yet, voice comms and buying a clone I won't fill into for a long while yet). We're all individuals Lol

There's also another aspect: I'm 44 years old and would find it very difficult to deal with young gamers (I think, although most players I've chatted to so far have been reasonably normal) too often. Wonder if there's a geriatric corp...

I've kept my eye on corporations by checking info on local chat characters, and there seem to be corporations that are relaxed enough for my liking. May take the plunge soon.


I can't quote whatever I do in eve but I play mainly to my own rules with myself or a few people in small fleets, none of them I know in real life and we all have fun...

I think you will find a lot of players are of your age group, me I am over 50 (perhaps a mental age of 14 though), play with a lot of people around my age but still hang around with the youngsters... They aren't too bad if you can put up with f@ck every other word...

As for corps, yes most are a pain in the ass. Finding a good corp with mature players is very much trial and error, remember you need to do what you enjoy..

Clones, do update your medical clone regardless of play type. If your medical clone does not cover the level of skill points you have and you make a mistake and get podded (happens in hi-sec) you WILL LOSE skill points...

Ah...we are not alone. I feel what you guys / gals are saying. I am pushing 60 and just don't think I can cope with the voice comm of 10 children.

Their gameplay amounts to coming home, nukin' some ravioli, getting online and screaming obscenities until the guardian arrives.

It's like taking your ex-wife deer hinting...Total immersion breaker...


I think you will find that lots of players are college students and above in EVE.

Personally been in two different alliances with comms (and some comms of friends in EVE and other friendly alliances), most of the chat (say 99%) was just normal chatting with each other or related to EVE in a nice and grown up way (ratting or mining together and just exchange stuff like what to shoot/mine next or exchange fits and ideas). Then there is PvP wherebyou likely only hear scouts and the FC. Of course, I heard children whine or even adults act as retards, but that was very occasional. And if I'm really annoyed by it I just move to another channel.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Aria Ta'lok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-10-03 13:28:35 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Jesuis Cache-Cache][quote=Highland Cream]

I think you will find that lots of players are college students and above in EVE.

Personally been in two different alliances with comms (and some comms of friends in EVE and other friendly alliances), most of the chat (say 99%) was just normal chatting with each other or related to EVE in a nice and grown up way (ratting or mining together and just exchange stuff like what to shoot/mine next or exchange fits and ideas). Then there is PvP wherebyou likely only hear scouts and the FC. Of course, I heard children whine or even adults act as retards, but that was very occasional. And if I'm really annoyed by it I just move to another channel.


I don't doubt that average gamer of EVE might be in the mid 20s. I will agree that some adults are more childish than most first graders. I know of several, right of hand...

I'm just calling it like I see it with my grandchildren. I experience that first hand and leave the house when that crap starts. *pops beer*

BTW, this is my new alt. Blink I created her to be a trader for Jesuis. I just wished she had blue hair. Cry

Too bad we can't train them at the same time. What might be the obvious reason, that I am dumbfoundedly missing?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-10-03 13:55:46 UTC
Aria Ta'lok wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
[quote=Jesuis Cache-Cache][quote=Highland Cream]

I think you will find that lots of players are college students and above in EVE.

Personally been in two different alliances with comms (and some comms of friends in EVE and other friendly alliances), most of the chat (say 99%) was just normal chatting with each other or related to EVE in a nice and grown up way (ratting or mining together and just exchange stuff like what to shoot/mine next or exchange fits and ideas). Then there is PvP wherebyou likely only hear scouts and the FC. Of course, I heard children whine or even adults act as retards, but that was very occasional. And if I'm really annoyed by it I just move to another channel.


I don't doubt that average gamer of EVE might be in the mid 20s. I will agree that some adults are more childish than most first graders. I know of several, right of hand...

I'm just calling it like I see it with my grandchildren. I experience that first hand and leave the house when that crap starts. *pops beer*

BTW, this is my new alt. Blink I created her to be a trader for Jesuis. I just wished she had blue hair. Cry

Too bad we can't train them at the same time. What might be the obvious reason, that I am dumbfoundedly missing?


CCP wants your money...

Serious reply:

Not really weird, otherwise people will have 3 characters all trained up with each account. It also means that some stuff will be too easily accessible to people

And think of other MMOs, they might let you have 5 characters on 1 account, but you can only use 1 at the time to grind XP points to advance it.

And the split training might sound weird. But if you want 2 character skilling at same time there is only 1 option, 2 accounts.
You can however also buy a ready skilled character here on the forums and have it transferred to your account (if done through the forums, it's scamming protected).

I personally have 6 accounts atm, so can train 6 characters. On one account my daily use character has reached it's initial goal (might find new ones in the future), so I'm currently training an alt there that eventually will go up for sale.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Highland Cream
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-10-03 14:59:33 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Highland Cream wrote:
Vatueil Bererund wrote:
Just a thanks for this thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one (not comfortable with joining a corporation just yet, voice comms and buying a clone I won't fill into for a long while yet). We're all individuals Lol

There's also another aspect: I'm 44 years old and would find it very difficult to deal with young gamers (I think, although most players I've chatted to so far have been reasonably normal) too often. Wonder if there's a geriatric corp...

I've kept my eye on corporations by checking info on local chat characters, and there seem to be corporations that are relaxed enough for my liking. May take the plunge soon.


I can't quote whatever I do in eve but I play mainly to my own rules with myself or a few people in small fleets, none of them I know in real life and we all have fun...

I think you will find a lot of players are of your age group, me I am over 50 (perhaps a mental age of 14 though), play with a lot of people around my age but still hang around with the youngsters... They aren't too bad if you can put up with f@ck every other word...

As for corps, yes most are a pain in the ass. Finding a good corp with mature players is very much trial and error, remember you need to do what you enjoy..

Clones, do update your medical clone regardless of play type. If your medical clone does not cover the level of skill points you have and you make a mistake and get podded (happens in hi-sec) you WILL LOSE skill points...

Ah...we are not alone. I feel what you guys / gals are saying. I am pushing 60 and just don't think I can cope with the voice comm of 10 children.

Their gameplay amounts to coming home, nukin' some ravioli, getting online and screaming obscenities until the guardian arrives.

It's like taking your ex-wife deer hinting...Total immersion breaker...


I think you will find that lots of players are college students and above in EVE.

Personally been in two different alliances with comms (and some comms of friends in EVE and other friendly alliances), most of the chat (say 99%) was just normal chatting with each other or related to EVE in a nice and grown up way (ratting or mining together and just exchange stuff like what to shoot/mine next or exchange fits and ideas). Then there is PvP wherebyou likely only hear scouts and the FC. Of course, I heard children whine or even adults act as retards, but that was very occasional. And if I'm really annoyed by it I just move to another channel.


I agree, 99% of fleet comms are fantastic regardless of age... It's the general chit chat ones that get annoying so, especially for Team Speak, I'd sit in an empty room and anything major important is broadcast globally.. Especially when they start nattering about TANKS...
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-10-03 15:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Highland Cream wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Jesuis Cache-Cache wrote:
Highland Cream wrote:
Vatueil Bererund wrote:
Just a thanks for this thread. I'm glad I'm not the only one (not comfortable with joining a corporation just yet, voice comms and buying a clone I won't fill into for a long while yet). We're all individuals Lol

There's also another aspect: I'm 44 years old and would find it very difficult to deal with young gamers (I think, although most players I've chatted to so far have been reasonably normal) too often. Wonder if there's a geriatric corp...

I've kept my eye on corporations by checking info on local chat characters, and there seem to be corporations that are relaxed enough for my liking. May take the plunge soon.


I can't quote whatever I do in eve but I play mainly to my own rules with myself or a few people in small fleets, none of them I know in real life and we all have fun...

I think you will find a lot of players are of your age group, me I am over 50 (perhaps a mental age of 14 though), play with a lot of people around my age but still hang around with the youngsters... They aren't too bad if you can put up with f@ck every other word...

As for corps, yes most are a pain in the ass. Finding a good corp with mature players is very much trial and error, remember you need to do what you enjoy..

Clones, do update your medical clone regardless of play type. If your medical clone does not cover the level of skill points you have and you make a mistake and get podded (happens in hi-sec) you WILL LOSE skill points...

Ah...we are not alone. I feel what you guys / gals are saying. I am pushing 60 and just don't think I can cope with the voice comm of 10 children.

Their gameplay amounts to coming home, nukin' some ravioli, getting online and screaming obscenities until the guardian arrives.

It's like taking your ex-wife deer hinting...Total immersion breaker...


I think you will find that lots of players are college students and above in EVE.

Personally been in two different alliances with comms (and some comms of friends in EVE and other friendly alliances), most of the chat (say 99%) was just normal chatting with each other or related to EVE in a nice and grown up way (ratting or mining together and just exchange stuff like what to shoot/mine next or exchange fits and ideas). Then there is PvP wherebyou likely only hear scouts and the FC. Of course, I heard children whine or even adults act as retards, but that was very occasional. And if I'm really annoyed by it I just move to another channel.


I agree, 99% of fleet comms are fantastic regardless of age... It's the general chit chat ones that get annoying so, especially for Team Speak, I'd sit in an empty room and anything major important is broadcast globally.. Especially when they start nattering about TANKS...


Oh...not only WoT, what about LoL or GW2.

At one time we just politely asked if they could do that in a seperate channel, so they made an `external gaming´ room on our corporate section of the alliance teamspeak to hang out if they play another game.

Our general pub area for the corp is usually a place we all hang out for normal chit-chat or more often just sit there in silence and mind our own business.

But, like Oraac mentioned that most people misunderstand that you MUST be in a player corporation, there is also the generalization that voice comms are always loud and filled with words that get censored here on the forums. I hardly find that the case, true there are overly exited people on comms that you want to mute, or that one guy that rages at everybody. But in general it's nice and quiet or just normal chit-chat.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Aria Ta'lok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-10-03 19:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Ta'lok
Staying on a theme of Stealth...I know this is a stupid Q, but the descriptions are unclear to me.

When a Stealth bonus says.. "x" % targeting delay after decloaking...

Is that the delay you remain cloaked after dropping out of cloak?
Is it the delay of how long you are able to target something?
OR...Is it how long of a delay for an enemy to target you after you drop out?

I hope I asked that right...Ugh

EDIT : For example, a Nemesis grants a role bonus -100% targeting delay after decloaking
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-10-03 20:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Aria Ta'lok wrote:
Staying on a theme of Stealth...I know this is a stupid Q, but the descriptions are unclear to me.

When a Stealth bonus says.. "x" % targeting delay after decloaking...

Is that the delay you remain cloaked after dropping out of cloak?
Is it the delay of how long you are able to target something?
OR...Is it how long of a delay for an enemy to target you after you drop out?

I hope I asked that right...Ugh

EDIT : For example, a Nemesis grants a role bonus -100% targeting delay after decloaking


1.) Having a cloak fitted to your ship (even if it's offline) will ruin your targeting speed.

2.) Any ship can cloak with normal cloaks. If you uncloak a normal ship with normal cloak there is a targetting delay at which time YOU can't target anything (keep in mind, as soon as you decloak, others CAN see you and CAN target/shoot you, even if you can't target back due to cloak restrictions).

3.) There are certain ships that get a -100% delay to that timer mentioned in 2. most of these ships (maybe even all of them) are also able to use the covert ops cloak (let's you warp cloaked) and are all designed specially for cloaky warfare.

So basically, these ships with the -100% delay on targeting... are able to target anything as soon as you decloak.
The example - Nemesis - has it because it's the Gallente Stealth Bomber, which as the name says, uses stealth in it's way of fighting.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Aria Ta'lok
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-10-04 00:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Ta'lok
J'Poll wrote:


1.) Having a cloak fitted to your ship (even if it's offline) will ruin your targeting speed.

2.) Any ship can cloak with normal cloaks. If you uncloak a normal ship with normal cloak there is a targetting delay at which time YOU can't target anything (keep in mind, as soon as you decloak, others CAN see you and CAN target/shoot you, even if you can't target back due to cloak restrictions).

3.) There are certain ships that get a -100% delay to that timer mentioned in 2. most of these ships (maybe even all of them) are also able to use the covert ops cloak (let's you warp cloaked) and are all designed specially for cloaky warfare.

So basically, these ships with the -100% delay on targeting... are able to target anything as soon as you decloak.
The example - Nemesis - has it because it's the Gallente Stealth Bomber, which as the name says, uses stealth in it's way of fighting.

This is the info I had hoped for. Me and the gang cannot thank you enough. That was well explained. Warping while cloaked...ohhhh, that's nasty.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-10-04 03:20:10 UTC  |  Edited by: SmilingVagrant
0.0 alliances make heavy use of cloaky scouts. It's not as glamorous as it sounds however. I'd train into a bomber and join one of the new player friendly blops groups that float around. If you build up a decent isk nest egg falcons absolutely enrage people. If you like that.

EDIT: Side note some of the BEST ships for living in enemy space cloaked up and picking off select targets aren't covops. A vaga with a cloak can do a lot of damage before someone eventually gets sick of it and either runs you off or kills you.

I lived in IRC space for over a week in a Vaga. It was fun.
Xorxos Ur
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-10-04 09:13:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorxos Ur
Hi,
thanks for all your answers. This really gives envy to play this game and go deep into its mechanics. Community seems great.
I was mentioning solo play in initial post.... and although I plan to start solo, I plan to join a corporation at some point, when I know the game mechanics a bit more, later. That might not be best thing to do as I understand the best way to learn the game.... is trough a corporation ! Anyway I think i'll always want to keep my freedom and will do hybrid style of gameplay: engaging in game politics, probably a corp, but play solo some of the time.
I'm at the point where I KNOW political things and interactions are going on between players, but I don't have a clue what is going on, Who's who etc etc ! I never been to low sec zones. It's quite exiting to know there is a whole world of faction and politics to get into at some point.

I will not rush into things, and this is what I like about this game: lots to do, lots to learn.... you're not into a race to do things one after the other like in other MMORPG.

To come back to stealth: I downloaded evmon, and it's clear that I better choose my learning path in advance.
I'll develop mining until I can buy a covetor so I can make minimum cash on my own.
Then i'll develop stealth capabilities and see what I can do in exploration, salvaging in both PVE and PVP (when i'll joing corp - i like this stealth bomber thing).

Is there anyway to conduct exploring, finding things, solo without having to fight too strong NPCs for a single player ?
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-10-04 09:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Callan
For exploration, it may sound trite, but Google will be your friend if you're trying to figure out how hard a site is going to be.

What I mean is: sites generally have unique names that tie in to their composition and the hostile NPC forces that you'll find within them. Once you've scanned down a site with probes, you can search Google, prefixing the site name with "EVE Online" (e.g. "EVE Online Guristas Drug Lab"), and there's a very good chance you'll find a page detailing the hostiles and potential prizes therein.

Just be aware that some sites can be easily handled by a frigate, and others will need a full-fledged battlecruiser gang with wingmen to survive.

Oh, and the value of the loot you get is a complete crap shoot - sometimes you'll get a drop that will buy you a faction battleship (or the drop might even be a blueprint for a faction battleship), and sometimes you'll get trash that will barely pay your ammunition expenses.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Oraac Ensor
#34 - 2012-10-04 10:08:29 UTC
Xorxos Ur wrote:
I'll develop mining until I can buy a covetor so I can make minimum cash on my own.
If you're doing it on your own you'll be better off in a Retriever - or maybe a Procurer, depending on how/where you intend to do it.
Keno Skir
#35 - 2012-10-04 10:39:04 UTC
Quick reply, at work.

You WILL learn the game faster in a player corp or at least with a group of players who can answer your questions in a shared chat. Learning solo has its merits, but it will NOT be as fast.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#36 - 2012-10-04 11:26:07 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:

Many posters in these forums misunderstand the meaning of "multiplayer". They think it means that you aren't doing it right unless you join a corp, guild, gang, team - call it whatever you like, but some form of semi-permanent player organisation. In fact all it means is what it says - multiple players - with whom you are able to interact.

Worse than that, they have the arrogance to presume to tell newbies that they WILL enjoy/learn the game better in a player corp despite the fact that they know nothing whatsoever about the abilities, character, personality or tastes of the people to whom they are giving that advice.

Nothing wrong with wanting to play solo - a recent survey showed that the majority of EVE players do it that way. .


There are lots of reasons to play solo. For a start there is Real Life which may prevent one from joining a Corp because one doesn't know when they will be available to play.

So one looks at how to play Eve in the manner which is suits you. If I hadn't got a lot of Real Life time issues and responsibilities then I may well be in nullSec roaming with a mob but, instead, I have another character (they are all 'mains' as far as I am concerned; they just do three different roles) which does the solo wanderings.

I wouldn't/couldn't have it any other way.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Oraac Ensor
#37 - 2012-10-04 11:59:08 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
Quick reply, at work.

You WILL learn the game faster in a player corp or at least with a group of players who can answer your questions in a shared chat. Learning solo has its merits, but it will NOT be as fast.

Nobody said anything about "learning solo". Learning while playing solo is something different. As you say, you don't have to be in a player corp to learn from other players - for starters there are these forums, then there's local and private convo etc.

I've learned plenty from other players without ever joining a corp.

As far as I'm concerned any possible gain from learning in a corp would be massively outweighed by the disadvantages of corp membership.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#38 - 2012-10-05 14:37:44 UTC
Xorxos Ur wrote:
Is there anyway to conduct exploring, finding things, solo without having to fight too strong NPCs for a single player ?


What I like to do solo is lowsec exploration, specificly Radar and Magnometric sites. I usually go hunt for these using a cloaky covops, but you can do this in a low SP scanning frig too. It will be more risky, but since a T1 scan frig is pretty cheap a few ship losses here and there are no big deal. Since Radar and Magnometric signatures are far easier then any combat signature found in lowsec (in terms of combat), you won't need a faction-fitted Battlecruiser or a ton of friends to kill the rats.

That being said, while this works fine solo, being in a corp can help immensely. Imagine your friends keeping eyes on gates, passing you bookmarks they won't run themselves, or even act as a batphone you can call in when attacked. While solo exploration is great fun, there are a few stealth-related things that are more viable in a (small) group, like Stealth Bombers.

Hacking V = best chance for extraction
Salvaging V = best chance for extraction
Archeology V = best chance for extraction
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#39 - 2012-10-16 04:13:59 UTC
There is one advantage to playing solo that hasn't been mentioned, the NPC corps are full of alts of players that have been playing for years, they can be very helpful if you ask the right questions and it's a good way to make contacts for when and if you do decide to join a corp.

I frequent a non corp channel that has people from various nullsec alliances, hisec PvP & PvE corps, losec pirates and everything in between, it's always interesting to talk to people who do different things in Eve and you tend to learn a fair bit from them.

Also posting in a stealth "yes I'm over 40" thread Big smile

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-10-16 08:28:18 UTC
Saying EVE is easier to grasp when other people play with you, doesn't mean joining one of the popular alliances with CTA, voicecom and all the fluff.

It just means you're not alone in the game and can interact with people.

The starter NPC corp does have a chat channel with hundreds of people that may or may not see you babbling there, you can learn starter tricks and more advanced ones too in there, a lot of people have alts in NPC corps for many different reasons, so there's both new players and experienced ones there.

Joining a corp doesn't mean you'll have to get on voicecom all the time, it takes some time, but finding a good corp is like looking for a job, you do some research and lookup the corp before you apply. There are corps out there that are laid back on coms and yet offer POS lab/new players programs/daily ops/etc. but you can still use text corp chat to talk with corpmates. Favor corps/alliances with a public channel, hang in a few of these, see who is frequenting them, lookup the people's corp history and engage casual chat or EVE-specific, you'll have an overview of the regular audience of the corp, if their online time matches yours... it can give you a pretty accurate picture of the corp before you even apply for it. Also shows a little bit about yourself to everyone in the channel, so it might even be some other corp that will invite you to join them.

Even then, you don't *need* to join a player corp. The major hassle of NPC corp is tax rate and godawful queues in high-sec research slots, other than that, yes you won't be able to set up POS or fly a capital ship (other than an orca or a freighter, though the orca isn't really a capital ship), but there's tons of people perfectly happy with it.

Joining a corp is *not* mandatory, it's a convenience, but there's just other people online that you can socialize with.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

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