Missions & Complexes

start running the tag missions then.

the reason people dont run them is it trashes their standings with the other races/factions.

If you are all joe farmer who refuses to leave the farm, wtf are you saving your standings for?

Remove all tag trade ins, and replace with large increase in isk trade in. Isk sink and convenience in one.

There is a bit more complexity to it than just tag prices and items.

Example: You won't find 1MN Republic Fleet MWD/AB's up for sale. Tags are part of it but another part is the much larger availability of deadspace fittings due to easing of probe skills and the popularity of exploration.

As such, the prices on many of these modules have plumeted so low that even just LP values alone have problems competing in the market.

It's all part of that "system" folks talk about - a change to this game mechanic runs across a far wider range of areas than people may notice.

As for the LP store - it could use a good looking at. The formulas involved in pricing are very old and don't reflect many changes to the game over the years.

IMO - a more dynamic math model should be used. That which sells well becomes more expensive, that which doesn't becomes cheaper - but weighted also do to the availability of competing items (such as deadspace drops) and its relative value/effects as a component (near the top? More expensive/valuable. Near the bottom of all variants? less expensive).

"Balance" it but not in a way that most LP store users would like. Make it so that it is "self adjusting". So if competing items are added or removed from the game, it auto-corrects and stays "competitive" within each items niche.

I guess my idea here is "more upfront work" with less developer tweaks/maintenance as the game advances.

The complaining never ends.

This is true but then we would get are Deadspace cheaper or the store iteam starts looking like a great buy for the time being.

True that a lot modules in LP stores are grossly overpriced in tag prices, like the already mentioned RF 1mn AB/MWD.

And while one of the major reason for that is competition from common drops in DED plexes and exploration, one the major reason is that smaller modules (which are often the offending items) ask for supposedly 'lower level' tags, which should be reasonably expected to drop in much more numbers than higher officer tags, like say, Sergent II or II VS General I tags.

Which does not happen, General I tags drop a lot more than Sergeant II tags... And while modules or BPC ask for relatively few General tags, literally hundreds are needed to get the smaller modules. Comparative rarity is what make some modules/BPC totally not worth it in any way conceivable.

I've once did the maths for a RF 1mn AB, and while its old data and can't quite remember the precises numbers, after getting the tags at average prices on market (lots of Sergeant I, II and II) I would have had to sell the ABs around 50m apiece just not to lose ISK, no profit at all, 0 ISK/LP, versus say, a 15m 1mn Gist AB.

People may remember when CCP nerfed loot tables for missions last year, where they were supposed to replace t1 mods with Scrap Metal and more pirate tags (and I assume, more officer tags in faction missions)... We DID get a LOT of scrap metals, but no increase in tags whatsoever - Maybe that was where CP wanted to 'fix' the tag drop rate... Which they never implemented.

I can't answer that, I'm not on the dev team, but it would be nice for a Dev to tell us if the tag increase drop idea was just stored and forgotten or altogether trashed?

Just curious.

Hi,

I do not think LP stores need fixing - the reason tag prices keep going up is because people don't want to hit their faction standings by getting tags through missions, restricting the supply in market.

I am perfectly happy to see my Gallente/Minmatar standing get hit on Enemies Abound if it means i can get hold of valuable tags. The faction standings hit is part of the downside of missioning as a career.

What needs to happen, if anything, is that there needs to be more missions where you are able to get hold of the tags as loot (such as Enemies Abound), and if people don't like getting standings hits, then tough luck, find an item ito redeem in LP store that does not require Tags. This would increase the potential supply of Tags to the market.

- Sun

I run alot of minmatar RF and Krusal Tribe missions to. And yes the LP store sucks now.

We rented an office just after missions patch for 30m a month, 1 month after it was 179m saying ALOT have moved into this system to do missions. Not only that, you exspect to BUY tags on the market, while if you killed Amarr you wouldnt have this problem but collected the tags. So many dont wana do faction missions due faction lose.. Tags goes up in prise.

Republic Warp Distruptur are still worth selling, if you dont buy tags for insane ammount on the market.

You first answer in this topic was perfect. I cant see what should be broken, your compeeting with faction warfare LP who can buy the same for half the ammount of LP. Find another agent, and there are other LVL 5 agents in lowsec....

The problem is a bit more than what the discussion seems to be touching on and I do apologize for not being very clear so I'll try a bit better.

LP stores are a major ISK sink according to how CCP wishes it to operate. Yet many of the options in them aren't real options at all and others are flat out broken due to changes in the game over time.

An easier example than the AB's and MWD's...

option 1 - Tempest Fleet Issue
- 600k LP, 0 isk, 1 x Tempest, 1 x UUC
option 2 -Tempest Fleet Issue Blueprint (1 copy)
- 500k LP, 200m ISK
option 3 - Tempest Fleet issue Blueprint (1 copy)
- 500k LP, 0 ISK, boatload of different tags including 2 rare ones - 1 of which hasn't been traded in Jita for over a year.

For an ISK sink model, you'd want option 2 above to be the most popular but it's not - the top option is. Also options 2 is exceedingly rarely exercised and option 3... Just a guess but probably no more than 10 times since LP stores were put in the game.

Back in 2005 - the value was around 1 billion isk on the market. In 2006, down to 400 mill on a BPC. In 2009 you could get a partially fit version of the ship for around 450 mill. Today? ...

Tossing aside costs and values... all that stuff - just look at availability. IN 2005 time frames, decently ME/PE researched BP's were rare. Today - not so rare so production of the "base" ship is cheaper so the overall value of getting that "poorly researched" BP to make one is pretty low compared to a straight trade-in.

Trade-in's aren't "ISK sinks". They do work the economy a bit but are not a sink.

It's outmoded and so are many other models across the factions. The system could use a revamp if for nothing else than to get that isk sink functionality brought back up to date.

As for tags: I'm not bothered by them too much. All but "named" tags are obtainable by the players and the market decides how much they are worth.

The only real thing I'd see as a potential change would be reversing the current order - low quantity of lower tier tags, climbing for higher tier - over to higher quantity of lower tiers with reducing quantities of the higher tier ones.

Then allow "over spending" - so it goes from "168 sergeant II" to "168 sergeant II or higher" so someone can "over spend" using Colonel tags instead of sergeant - or named tags to replace the highest level ones.

This removes many of the "no use" named tags - they fall within their faction type. As well as eliminating issues where someone doesn't get a type of tag anymore due to "moving beyond them" - if they choose. All the tags have value and rares are of high value, even if they aren't used directly.

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tl;dr - I still see the system as messed up. both from CCP's intended use of it as well as from the player's side. If it's going to be corrected, do it with a formula based system instead of "fixed costs" so it will be more resilient about changes in the game.

I find it amusing that some people think that the LP store item costs wouldn't plummet due to it costing less to acquire. If the item is cheaper to get it will also be cheaper to buy. You will not make more ISK / LP. If anything it will be a bigger pain because it will be much easier to saturate the market and have people undercutting the hell out of you, requiring much more babysitting.