Crime & Punishment

So I am trying to get my head wrapped around what I just witnessed. If a neutral logi is repping a war target before anyone aggresses it, he will only get aggression against the ship that the wt engages, but if he starts give reps after the war target is engaged by multiple targets he will get aggression against everything that is shooting at the war target. Is that correct. If not could some please explain it to me? Thank you.

If a neut logi reps pilot A, the logi is now shootable by the WTs of pilot A and anyone pilot A is currently aggressed with.

Anyone pilot A aggresses or anyone that aggresses pilot A while the logi is repping pilot A will also be able to aggress the logi.

Make sense?

Because people are dumb and like to complain about things. None of this is new by the way "neutral logi" has always been a viable target. The main issue people have is that the logi has no agression so can dock if it does get attacked and then undock and rep again.

lulz highsec pvp

The main complaint about them isn't that they can or can't be shot, the issue is that they don't get aggression, so can dock up as soon as they're shot, undock with full shields again, and only miss about two cycles.

This makes them very hard to kill.

Still doesn't change the fact that being able to participate in combat and not get an agro timer is stupid.

There are alot of other issues with the system aswell.

-Nuet logi one reps his alt who is at war with WT1 and WT2. WT1 and 2 shoot logi. Logi docks and comes back out in second fully pimped PVP ships and begins to blap. ( Funniest thing you will see is oh a Moa with logi repping my wt. Pew pew pew oh he docked. Oh snap Golem poof 2 volleyed Command ship.. ) Those who enjoy this type of pvp will often have several toons that are fully skilled that they will use to bait aggro. I have personally fought Snatch victory back in the day with this tactic. They though oh 3 man corp. Well we had 4 different corps with about 17 Nuet logi between us, most of which were able to switch to faction pimp battleships. Needless to say 17 Bs and 2 Cmd ships later they left.. Wondering how they got no kills...

-Prob 2. Nuet logi is gets pew pewed. Second logi undocks and they begin to circle jerk, and neither die.

Nuet logi is a big issue in highsec that makes even the worst multiboxer very very hard to kill even by a small gang. It is an issue that needs to be looked at, mostly the aggro mechanics. Still though the issue will always remain about what to do when the logis rep each other.

I havent looked to close at the crimewatch changes but it will be cool to see how things change..

NINJA EDIT

Logi taking aggro will also help in low sec where some like to sit on station repping there arty fit Machs who blap anything coming at them and when they get into trouble they dock the Battleship in the carrier and warp off. At least now the carrier will be at risk if the group is ready to kill it...

Their ability to Dock has nothing to do with their neutrality and is a factor in any fight on any station or gate in any segment of space.

So the real complaint about neutral RR is "I lost because I underestimated my enemy's ability to bring reinforcements" or "I was promised an XvX fight and my enemy cheated."

Basically, the only advantage that having your Logi pilots neutral provides is the ability to reduce the effectiveness of your enemy's use of Local as an intel tool.

As for an easy fix for Logi's docking up: Stop fighting on Stations.

Well, I have only given reps in nul-sec, I use a cruiser and carrier to rep, but I do see the issue.

Your high-sec logi is getting involved in aggressions and not getting an aggression timer.

The logi may be on your KM when you died cos he had to warp off, but pfft. will they rep you less?

If I gave my neighbour a big armoured jacket and a scope for his rifle, and he went at someone, I would get aggro from the law, for example.

Anyhow, not really my thing, just saying arming someone is a form of aggression.

First off, there are two very separate issues, mostly conflated due to a number of people in HS not knowing anything about the mechanics of the space they live in (the number of people who don't know you can shoot the "neutral" Logi is astounding).

The neutrality of Logis is the same as the "problem" of Local not showing you who's in the next system (or sitting on a Titan bridge). It simply allows people to hide their reserves. As it happens, it's a pretty good method of hiding your reserves (hard-ish to detect and allowing a very quick response) and really convenient (just undock). It's an entirely separate issue from Logi not getting aggression timers, and an issue that really boils down to a variant of the "I got Blobbed" dance.


Now, the Logi Aggro Timer issue is much more interesting. The ability for Logistics ships to disengage at will in certain situations is a significant advantage.

That said, Logis die on gates and on stations in Lowsec and Nullsec all the time. Other ships die in fights on stations and on gates in Lowsec and Nullsec all the time. Logi is often involved in those fights (hell, sometimes the Logi ship involved on station has Capital Reps and allows the targeted ship to refit for resists). I don't see why Highsec has such a problem with the ability of Logi to disengage at will.

Don't think I don't see where you're coming from though. It's annoying seeing a Logi/Carrier/Orca undock and save your enemy's bacon (just as it's annoying to hear a panicky "Cyno Up" on comms in the middle of a fight). But that's the nature of operating on their home turf where they've spent time preparing the field to give themselves an advantage. Taking your fights where you can get them means you also have to be prepared for the disadvantages that allowing your enemy the home field advantage bring. Fighting on station also means that you only have 60s to kill your enemy from the time he realizes he's loosing. EVE is full of examples of the defender in any given encounter has an advantage.

I didn't say that not fighting on stations was the only fix. Just an easy one. "Simple Solution" would probably have been a better phrase, both for alliterative reasons and accuracy reasons. Yes, I was being flip but this issue gets brought up so often that sometimes I don't feel like explaining the whole thing.