EVE General Discussion

A quicky today. Just to keep thinking about the dynamic aspects of 0.0 politics.

What has created this current situation. The neglection of the tech whoring has created this current 0.0 stalemate. A new NC if ppl still remember those. Something is fundementaly wrong with this and how it somehow gets created time after time. Its a long term thing that forms over a long period of time. Some could argue that 0.0 policts are decided by the people. That is true... but the game mechanics have an affect on the decisions. This is where the problem lies somewhere. I dont know ether. Im not saying tech is wrong. Im not moaning about tech here. Im saying here that there is a fundamental error in the game mechanics that leads somehow to 0.0 stalemates.

This problem makes this game not so fun as it could be. Eve is a sandbox game but it could be aloooot better. People simply get bored sooner or later. Ppl have different explore rates about eve mechanics. Some ppl have seen it all in a year or 2, others are still around exploring other aspects 6 yrs later. Im sure ccp is familiar with the butterfly affect and how the social aspect of corporations works on newer people that are joining such corporations. What if the vets are bored? Like a cardhouse it collapses. You could ague that this is the natural way of again corporations. The importance lies in the speed vets get created and the speed they leave (for good). I am predicting that if this winter nothing interesting happends in 0.0 politics the eve user will be stable or slowly decreasing.

Just my 2 cents,

ps: for the trolls again:Im saying here that there is a fundamental error in the game mechanics that leads somehow to 0.0 stalemates.

This ^^

I honestly don't know what stalemate you're talking about, there's always some sort of war going on somewhere.

I think what we are seeing is not so much a failure of the game mechanics, but more a function of societal structures. Given the complexities of survival and growth in the 0.0 regions, and taking in to account both internal (distribution and size of resources) and external (desirability of resources by outside parties) influences, the probability of any or all groups of 0.0 inhabitants forming a stable and self defending social structure is quite high.

Any changes rendered by truly external forces, in this case CCP changing mechanics etc, would only serve to destabilise those structures for a short time. This is because, if left undisturbed by in game influences for a suitable amount of time, any large group will eventually become responsive enough to adapt almost instantly to even the most severe changes in the mechanics. The only thing that will effectively serve to disrupt such a societal structure is the invasion of an opposing structure.

Historically Goonswarm have already proven what it takes to destabilise a large group. They entered the game with a completely different mindset and overall attitude to the one that prevailed at the time. They already had a reasonably coherent societal structure of their own and used this to their advantage. In simple terms, they brought chaos to order, they upset the balance in a way the 0.0 society of the time could not adapt to quickly enough.

Thus it is not a change in the mechanics that is required, but rather a change in the approach and mindset of people outside of the current 0.0 society. People need to think outside the box again.


As another mad bald man once said

Neglection.

Great word. Always impressed when people take the approriate word, that would have been absolutely fine as is, then add needless letters to it.

To be honest, I don't really see that there is any problem with there being a 'stalemate', although others have pointed out that there isn't one. Stalemates are at best temporary states, and it's not like a stalemate is a reflection of the lack of activity on the fronts.

The problem is human nature. As EVE's Darwinian model of "survival of the fittest' plays out, it is inevitable that more casual, less organized, weaker organizations constantly in conflict with their surroundings are eliminated and replaced by stable groups that are best adapted to their ecosystem (in this case; mechanics). The Wild West was eventually colonized and tamed, Europe went from the cradle of bloodshed and warfare to now moving towards a single pacifist union. EVE is the same way - new technologies (fleet setups, TS, jabber, forums, logistics, metagaming) are developed and incorporated by big alliances, the ones who don't find themselves in the dustbin of history.

Not just EVE alliances, but organic life in general continues to change and adapt until finally reaching an equilibrium with the ecosystem around it. Earth however is in constant change, with volcanoes, atmospheric changes, sunspot activity, tectonic drift and the occasional meteor endlessly disrupting life's sought-after equilibrium. EVE's 'ecosystem' however is locked in stone, and it is inevitable that a static hegemony will be put in place. Theoretically, it will reach a point where this Ruling Alliance or Coalition will even achieve stability in replenishing player subs.

The only way to prevent stagnation in EVE is to continue adding new changes in the system, aka new content. Things like supercap adjustments certainly changed things afterwards (effectively ending the Second Catch War, triggering the war on White Noise, etc.), but those are relatively minor changes over the course of three years, which nullsec has received few if any iterations on half-done content released over three years ago.

I think the ultimate solution would be to make EVE's resources shifting and more dynamic, ratting values, ladar/radar site drops, plexing, moon minerals, all slowly, gradually changed by the actions of other players in distant regions far away, and vice versa. Once rich regions could over the course of time dry up, spurring an exodus of a powerful alliance. A backwater might one day become an untapped goldmine, triggering conflict. CCP Grayscale has suggested something similar, a sort of 'ratting nerf projector' onto neighboring regions, but I feel it's too easily controlled, too easily incorporated into an ordered system.

Is that you dumber 2nd time around? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=151114

It's a complicated question, 0.0 alliances are the biggest purchasers but also (imho) the biggest sellers of PLEX (some people have bought Titans, etc). Considering that profit in the past has made less difference in an alliance's survivability (culture and motivation being a greater factor), I disagree that PLEX is as big a factor as you might think it is. Also keep in mind that if PLEX was removed, it would only be replaced by greater amounts of raw RMT

Empires rise Empires fall, Even the great British Empire, unriovaled for hundreds of years, fell when a ragtag group of farmers decided they would attack and fight for their outermost territory (North America) and allowed the Empires long-standing Enemy France, the opening they needed to win both their eternal war with britain (and america's revolutionary war, YEAH I SAID IT, france won the revolutionary war FOR america)

^^
Just because you dont see the map shifting a lot doesn't mean things aren't going on. The last major map shift was the HBC taking Delve/Querious/PB, but just because we own the regions now doesn't mean its all quiet there. We have spent the last couple months defending our new regions from almost constant attacks from -A- & pets. Since its a defensive war you dont see much movement on the influence map, but you can certainly see it on killboards.

That and CFC is busy evicting NCDot from Tribute, and it looks like NCDot and SOLAR are now fighting over Geminate again.

If anything this summer has been the busiest in nullsec since the fall of the NC last year.