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Nerfing Highsec manufacuring and the "End of EVE" as we know it

First post
Author
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#101 - 2012-09-08 11:00:12 UTC
Let CCP do it, let them nerf hisec into super high taxed and secure haven with limited access to industrial means. The players of Eve will adapt one way or the other. A player who doesn't want to fight other players won't leave hisec, most will rather stick to lower profits. In the end prices will go up and the population of low/nullsec will remain unchaned.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.

Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-09-08 11:07:08 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Let CCP do it, let them nerf hisec into super high taxed and secure haven with limited access to industrial means. The players of Eve will adapt one way or the other. A player who doesn't want to fight other players won't leave hisec, most will rather stick to lower profits. In the end prices will go up and the population of low/nullsec will remain unchaned.



I guess I could adapt to another MMO.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2012-09-08 11:53:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Gun Gal wrote:
so lets see....... in highsec, manufacturing is king, why? probobly the same frikin reason that in real life the DEVELOPED COUNTRIES are the best at it too.

you want to have third world countries be the best at manufatcuring and the like?

jesus christ, you loosers are bigger idiots than i thought, and if CCP goes for this good luck on holding subs.

This poster overlooked the fact that IRL production usually moves to "trird world" countries due to cheaper labour and less legal issues. Something remotedly similar to what CCP is going to show us in this new update if industry changes will happen.

So even if we look at this from IRL point of view, it still makes sense...
Nathan Ernaga
Applesauce Brigade
#104 - 2012-09-08 12:18:15 UTC
Won't happen.

If you have in your hands the key to the fulfillment of your life's ambition and superiority over most, if you are aware that there is an absolute power on hand (just over the basic moral principles) how far are you willing to go and through what you are willing to tread?

Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-09-08 12:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabrina Solette
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Gun Gal wrote:
so lets see....... in highsec, manufacturing is king, why? probobly the same frikin reason that in real life the DEVELOPED COUNTRIES are the best at it too.

you want to have third world countries be the best at manufatcuring and the like?

jesus christ, you loosers are bigger idiots than i thought, and if CCP goes for this good luck on holding subs.

This poster overlooked the fact that IRL production usually moves to "trird world" countries due to cheaper labour and less legal issues. Something remotedly similar to what CCP is going to show us in this new update if industry changes will happen.

So even if we look at this from IRL point of view, it still makes sense...




You seem to have overlooked the fact that low-sec is not a third world country.

Low-sec being a largely lawless area you would expect to find a small industrial base and a larger industrial base that manufacturers illegal products like drugs. But you would not expect to find most of the industry there. The largest industrial base will always be in the safer areas (unless they have no choice) which of course is high-sec, high-sec also being the place where most trade is.



Which I suspect was the original plan as all the better minerals are in low-sec and null.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#106 - 2012-09-08 14:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Xpaulusx
.........and the hits just keep rollin in, nerf High sec, best new player retention idea yet P The lack of brains here baffles the imaginationShocked

......................................................

Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
Space Potatoes Alliance
#107 - 2012-09-08 15:05:44 UTC
It just means everything will increase in price.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#108 - 2012-09-08 19:11:04 UTC
I wonder what hardships those in low and null suffer that makes them so bitter?

Getting camped into stations.
Ganked at gates.
Bubbled.


All player initiated litterbox features.

Yeah, real productive environment there. People answer to their predicament by becoming resentful of those who are not having it as bad, and then clamor for everybody else to have it as bad as they do.


In the meantime, the only real way to get some realistic response over this matter is to make the security of highsec expensive. It's like this: if I want to open a factory where it is considered safest to do so, I am going to spend a lot of money in property taxes and operational licenses which the municipality spends on police forces.

If I want to keep just about everything I bring in, perhaps no licenses and low if at all any property taxes, then I would choose a lawless place to open the factory. Unfortunately, security is something that will also have to be handled by me.


Now, here's the question: would I be able to operate at a profit in either case? High taxes and license fees, or non of that with high security management costs?

If this is not done right, and there is as kind of arbitrary "punish the indies and stick them into the gatecampery/litterbox of the bitter campers", then things will not look good for the future. A realistic balance must be struck between what you get from where you are and what you have in return for your efforts.


Justice is not a global variable, it's more like water filling a host of cups. Some cups will have more. So here are the low-sec crowd, having "won" lowsec killing everything that moved and so they sit, their cups rather dry, lacking targets, and they are bitter. Move industry to lowsec they cry.

Will their cups runneth over? Maybe so, but the risk comes now from emptying the cups of others.

If that's their liking, hence the "yeah! stick it to those carebears!!!! Marsha Marsha Marsha!!!!!" and carebears quit, and they revell in that, then it would be said thta CCP had to step in and boost their likings in much the same way that they, in such bitter terms, already think that CCP is coddling carebears.

Thus, it's not water in those cups, we can call it "Coddle Cola". Any many people who complain or claim that Coddle Cola unfairly fills the cups of others will be happy and full of glee when the same liquid fills their cups.


This would be entertaining if real world political systems didn't suffer from the same kind of fools.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-09-08 19:18:19 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Your income should be less then it is now. That's the heart of it. As an highsec industrialist, you will never be able to reach the heights you could reach in low or nullsec, and if you can, currently, then its a system failure. If you want to stay in highsec for your safe, assured, highsec money, then do it. But don't expect to make as much as the people willing to actually take risks. And no, "I'm a paying subscriber" is not justification for you to get preferential treatment. If I buy a boardgame, that doesn't mean I get to win because its 'my game' and if I do claim something like that, I'm probably 5.

In short: HTFU, this is eve.


Not empty quoting. Greater risk should = greater isk.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Ghazu
#110 - 2012-09-08 19:29:52 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I wonder what hardships those in low and null suffer that makes them so bitter?

Getting camped into stations.
Ganked at gates.
Bubbled.


All player initiated litterbox features.

Yeah, real productive environment there. People answer to their predicament by becoming resentful of those who are not having it as bad, and then clamor for everybody else to have it as bad as they do.


In the meantime, the only real way to get some realistic response over this matter is to make the security of highsec expensive. It's like this: if I want to open a factory where it is considered safest to do so, I am going to spend a lot of money in property taxes and operational licenses which the municipality spends on police forces.

If I want to keep just about everything I bring in, perhaps no licenses and low if at all any property taxes, then I would choose a lawless place to open the factory. Unfortunately, security is something that will also have to be handled by me.


Now, here's the question: would I be able to operate at a profit in either case? High taxes and license fees, or non of that with high security management costs?

If this is not done right, and there is as kind of arbitrary "punish the indies and stick them into the gatecampery/litterbox of the bitter campers", then things will not look good for the future. A realistic balance must be struck between what you get from where you are and what you have in return for your efforts.


Justice is not a global variable, it's more like water filling a host of cups. Some cups will have more. So here are the low-sec crowd, having "won" lowsec killing everything that moved and so they sit, their cups rather dry, lacking targets, and they are bitter. Move industry to lowsec they cry.

Will their cups runneth over? Maybe so, but the risk comes now from emptying the cups of others.

If that's their liking, hence the "yeah! stick it to those carebears!!!! Marsha Marsha Marsha!!!!!" and carebears quit, and they revell in that, then it would be said thta CCP had to step in and boost their likings in much the same way that they, in such bitter terms, already think that CCP is coddling carebears.

Thus, it's not water in those cups, we can call it "Coddle Cola". Any many people who complain or claim that Coddle Cola unfairly fills the cups of others will be happy and full of glee when the same liquid fills their cups.


This would be entertaining if real world political systems didn't suffer from the same kind of fools.



quit quietly lol we don't need your sob story

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Josef Djugashvilis
#111 - 2012-09-08 19:39:41 UTC
If I say that Eve can never be hard enough or tough enough, does it mean I have won at Eve?

This is not a signature.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#112 - 2012-09-08 19:42:35 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I wonder what hardships those in low and null suffer that makes them so bitter?

Getting camped into stations.
Ganked at gates.
Bubbled.


All player initiated litterbox features.

Yeah, real productive environment there. People answer to their predicament by becoming resentful of those who are not having it as bad, and then clamor for everybody else to have it as bad as they do.


In the meantime, the only real way to get some realistic response over this matter is to make the security of highsec expensive. It's like this: if I want to open a factory where it is considered safest to do so, I am going to spend a lot of money in property taxes and operational licenses which the municipality spends on police forces.

If I want to keep just about everything I bring in, perhaps no licenses and low if at all any property taxes, then I would choose a lawless place to open the factory. Unfortunately, security is something that will also have to be handled by me.


Now, here's the question: would I be able to operate at a profit in either case? High taxes and license fees, or non of that with high security management costs?

If this is not done right, and there is as kind of arbitrary "punish the indies and stick them into the gatecampery/litterbox of the bitter campers", then things will not look good for the future. A realistic balance must be struck between what you get from where you are and what you have in return for your efforts.


Justice is not a global variable, it's more like water filling a host of cups. Some cups will have more. So here are the low-sec crowd, having "won" lowsec killing everything that moved and so they sit, their cups rather dry, lacking targets, and they are bitter. Move industry to lowsec they cry.

Will their cups runneth over? Maybe so, but the risk comes now from emptying the cups of others.

If that's their liking, hence the "yeah! stick it to those carebears!!!! Marsha Marsha Marsha!!!!!" and carebears quit, and they revell in that, then it would be said thta CCP had to step in and boost their likings in much the same way that they, in such bitter terms, already think that CCP is coddling carebears.

Thus, it's not water in those cups, we can call it "Coddle Cola". Any many people who complain or claim that Coddle Cola unfairly fills the cups of others will be happy and full of glee when the same liquid fills their cups.


This would be entertaining if real world political systems didn't suffer from the same kind of fools.




So therefore... aliens?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-09-08 21:07:53 UTC
Gun Gal wrote:
if you can take your head out of your ass for just a sec......

Roll
phew... Gonna be one of those, is it?
Gun Gal wrote:
i have all ready stated that i support industry buffing, considering i have dedicated industry accounts, moon mining setups, PI moons etc., and have played in null for the bulk of my career in eve.

Good for you! I haven't lived in Hi-Sec full time since 6 mos before you got into the game. So what?
Gun Gal wrote:
what i am saying that there is no need to screw over high-sec in order to improve low-sec/ null-sec.

Good thing that's not being suggested.
Gun Gal wrote:
you guys don't understand that there's two types of players in EVE, those that want to pvp and be pseudo hard-asses, and those that just want to relax and play internet spaceships. No matter how hard to try to screw them over in order to "move them" to low-sec/null, it isn't going to happen , you cant change human nature.

Dam, might be more than two types of players in the game, I mean, there are more than two players in the game...Roll

Good thing no one is suggesting we try to change human nature then, just work *with* it.
Gun Gal wrote:
I see what you and others are doing, but rationalizing it trying to make assertions is going to do nothing. you change EVE too much and its over, 90% of the denizens of EVE are the people your trying to **** with. they go, you go back to Warcraft.

Well, since I'm a WH dweller by nature and choice, i am pretty sure you *don't* "see what I'm doing".

What I would like to see happen is Null-sec (and by extension - possibly WH's) have reasons *live* where they "work". Instead of Null-sec entities having no choice but to do their manufacturing in Hi-sec (meaning their alts and Industry minded players live in hi-sec). It was pointed out that there are *systems* in hi-sec that have more manufacturing capacity than some entire *REGIONS* of null sec. Currently, even if they *want* to do their own manufacturing in null-sec, it involves the hell-grind that is POS industry, which isn't too bad for a single player, but if you are trying to run a manufacturing endeavor for a 500 or 1000 person alliance, it gets way to unwieldy fast.

However, if the residents of null-sec were given the opportunity to upgrade their systems with real manufacturing/invention/copying capacity - more of them would be willing to move their alts out of hi-sec and back "home". Secondly, there are *some* people who would like to do manufacturing in Null-Sec, be part of the Corps/Alliances out there, but as it stands - they aren't needed at all with hi-sec pumping out product in uncountable amounts, so there is no reason for Null-Sec corps/alliance to recruit industry players, per-say.


Now, as to the assertion that ". . . 90% of the denizens of EVE are the people your trying to **** with . . . " - you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Eve Fanfest presentation "State of the Economy" - Would be very enlightening for you.

Particularly where Dr E (CCP in house economist) presents a snapshot of player activity starting about 02:51. CCP hasn't ever announced when they are doing these snapshots, or how often they happen, but they give a baseline to work from. Another important consideration is that Null/00/WH residents tend to have more "hi-sec" alts than strictly hi-sec characters (according to CCP). So some % of those Hi-Sec residents in the snapshot are alts of Low-Sec, WH or Null-sec dwellers.

At 04:19 there are two graphs, showing a snapshot of where people are. In the first pie-chart we see that 71.5% of people were in hi-sec when the snapshot was taken. So 18.5% different than your 90% assertion. Second chart shows it even clearer, 65.3% of players were active in hi-sec, a 34.7% difference. Remember also that some of those active in hi-sec won't be self-identifying "hi-sec" dwellers. They will be alts of everyone else - so the final tally, while specifically unknown, can be guesstimated to be below 71%, and possibly below 65.3%.

For example, I've got three accounts, two in hi-sec (one market/Hauler/salvaing alt) and one Exploration/mission running alt. Even when I'm out of wh's, regardless of where I am, I'm *not* a hi-sec dweller, and there are others in the same situation - so please, leave the Ad-Hominims and hyperbole at home.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-09-08 22:09:39 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
Being an industrialist/marketeer is one of the riskiest things to do in EVE.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

That's funny.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-09-08 22:10:40 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Let CCP do it, let them nerf hisec into super high taxed and secure haven with limited access to industrial means. The players of Eve will adapt one way or the other.


Would be the final reason for me to quit EVE and dedicate my time to TERA.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-09-08 22:12:03 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Let CCP do it, let them nerf hisec into super high taxed and secure haven with limited access to industrial means. The players of Eve will adapt one way or the other.


Would be the final reason for me to quit EVE and dedicate my time to TERA.

If you're not a bad industrialist you would just push the costs on to the consumer, and your profit margin would be exactly the same as it is today.

What's the problem?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2012-09-08 22:13:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
Let CCP do it, let them nerf hisec into super high taxed and secure haven with limited access to industrial means. The players of Eve will adapt one way or the other.


Would be the final reason for me to quit EVE and dedicate my time to TERA.

If you're not a bad industrialist you would just push the costs on to the consumer, and your profit margin would be exactly the same as it is today.

What's the problem?


Overinflated sense of self worth

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#118 - 2012-09-08 22:24:38 UTC
Maybe I have missed it, but where is the big nerf?
Soltwekre Shimaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2012-09-08 22:27:44 UTC
whats highsec and manufacturing?
i honestly would rather play runescape then live in high and hear the carebears crying about the nerfing to their safe gameplay, take some risks go to low and enjoy real market pvp and manufacturing.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#120 - 2012-09-08 22:40:45 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Overinflated sense of self worth


How on earth you think hisec manufacturers could compete against you guys in any way if hisec prices would double?