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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Skill transfers

Author
TheoS1l3nc3r
10th Legion Fretensis
#1 - 2012-09-07 18:58:54 UTC
I would like to see players be able to transfer a skill from one of their toons to another. Maybe for a fee of a tiny bit of real life money or isk to transfer them. Price is based on how much sp you want to transfer to the other character. This would at least cut down on how long it takes to train skills instead of it being years to do anything fully, Some of my friends stopped playing because of how long it took to train, this would get old players back into the game and get more new players in. And with is costing money to do the company will get money and other players will want to open up even more acounts.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2012-09-07 19:04:15 UTC
So, you are suggesting a skill transplant?

Technically the skill would have been properly earned, needing to have been trained over time normally.

I want to say that should work, but a part of me hints at something missing that could be exploited.
TheoS1l3nc3r
10th Legion Fretensis
#3 - 2012-09-07 19:07:53 UTC
Yes, that is exactly what i mean. It still has to be earned and take the full time to train the skill and then it can be transferred to another person.
kerradeph
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-09-07 19:07:59 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
So, you are suggesting a skill transplant?

Technically the skill would have been properly earned, needing to have been trained over time normally.

I want to say that should work, but a part of me hints at something missing that could be exploited.

yeah, it would be nice, but could be exploited by buying a cap sitter off of the market and all of a sudden you have a bunch of skills you would not have had access to before then you just transfer those skills to your main and burn the bought character.
Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
#5 - 2012-09-07 19:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lavitakus Bromier
Or train 2 accounts fully in 2 different races the transfer to one char.
Idk person it's like I gatta pee and a ask you to do it for me cause.IM. Lazy...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2012-09-07 19:28:34 UTC

This would allow you to completely circumvent a character's history....

Become a CEO, steal 100b in ships... create clean alt, transfer skills, become ceo, steal 100b, rinse/repeat.... Granted, it might be fishy when a 1-week old character can fly a titan... but still.... I think this might open up loopholes and other issues... it's too close to outright buying sp imo.... With buy a character, you get their history, their good and bad training decisions, their standings, etc....
TheoS1l3nc3r
10th Legion Fretensis
#7 - 2012-09-07 19:30:47 UTC
One way to stop that from happening is if a character is bought off market it can't ever take place in a skill transplant. And maybe for the opening up of multiple accounts only one person A can only transfer to person B for that month. Meaning only one person can do it for that entire month.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2012-09-07 19:35:03 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

This would allow you to completely circumvent a character's history....

Become a CEO, steal 100b in ships... create clean alt, transfer skills, become ceo, steal 100b, rinse/repeat.... Granted, it might be fishy when a 1-week old character can fly a titan... but still.... I think this might open up loopholes and other issues... it's too close to outright buying sp imo.... With buy a character, you get their history, their good and bad training decisions, their standings, etc....

I think you nailed it.

It would also bypass standings with security status if you were able to move the skills over from a burned ganker to one with a fresh shiny security status.
Add to that, everyone who had the previous guy on watch lists with standings would have no idea he had been reborn under a new name.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-09-07 20:05:56 UTC
it be another pay to win feature, no thanks O_o

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.

Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-09-07 20:22:05 UTC
No
Bad idea in many many ways.

Not only the stealing billions way mentioned above but also,

Have billions, want to train faster, buy plex to fund new account X5, get characters cracking on training, keep it going for 6 months to a year, transfer to main, You just got 5 years worth of skills in 1 year by paying for it.

Its a broken idea.

It doesn't make any sense in a logical way (I can't sell my knowledge of Rocket Science to an english major for $1,000)

Its asking for a game mechanic to allow exploits.

You should feel bad for suggesting it.
TheoS1l3nc3r
10th Legion Fretensis
#11 - 2012-09-07 20:29:12 UTC
I have already stated that you can only transfer from one person to another per month not 5 people to one. Also maybe only one skill per day to slow down the process and maybe have something like the history of corps you have been in. Have a history of who you have transffered skills to and who has transferred them to you.
TheoS1l3nc3r
10th Legion Fretensis
#12 - 2012-09-07 21:13:38 UTC
One way to fix any issues with it is to make it where you can only receive 20 skills and give away 20 skills. Therefore putting a cap on the amount and fixing any loopholes or issues with it. This is only meant to be a small scale thing to transfer mistakes. For example if you trained a bit for mining but went into combat you could get rid of that and have another person transfer other combat skills to you.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-09-07 21:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Loius Woo
TheoS1l3nc3r wrote:
One way to fix any issues with it is to make it where you can only receive 20 skills and give away 20 skills. Therefore putting a cap on the amount and fixing any loopholes or issues with it. This is only meant to be a small scale thing to transfer mistakes. For example if you trained a bit for mining but went into combat you could get rid of that and have another person transfer other combat skills to you.


Tell you what, Ill Bite.

Why is this something that will enrich the gameplay of Eve?

Please explain.

And don't just say, "it makes training faster"

The BEST thing about Eve is that leveling up is not a grind. You just want to make it pay to win. I fail to see how in any way shape or form, this would be a sensible idea to implement.
Lucious Shazih
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-09-07 21:22:00 UTC
I think it should be possible why not :) I've thought about this myself, after all they can transfer all of a person's skills and consciousness already in the eve universe. There's no reason the same technology could not be used to transfer part of consciousness or skills to another "person" in the game with the ability to receive consciousness from its own clone.

Speaking from the Eve Universe's point of view on what's already possible, there's no reason this partial transfer should be impossible.
Conan theBarbarian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-09-07 21:27:01 UTC
Why is this needed? The only purpose would be if someone made an *** of themselves and wants to start over on another character.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-09-07 21:49:28 UTC
Lucious Shazih wrote:
I think it should be possible why not :) I've thought about this myself, after all they can transfer all of a person's skills and consciousness already in the eve universe. There's no reason the same technology could not be used to transfer part of consciousness or skills to another "person" in the game with the ability to receive consciousness from its own clone.

Speaking from the Eve Universe's point of view on what's already possible, there's no reason this partial transfer should be impossible.


Lore it up all you want, its still an Incredibad idea that breaks Eve.
TheoS1l3nc3r
10th Legion Fretensis
#17 - 2012-09-07 22:17:27 UTC
I t does not break eve what so ever. If you don't like the idea and are not going to leave constructive criticism like the rules say to do not bother posting. I only suggested it as a way to get rid of the skills you realized you didn't want on your toon. and could import a few. I am i no way meaning to transplant a whole bunch like everyone else is thinking. Just a few to get them somewhere else. Maybe selling the skills in a forum like you do whole characters. Furthermore by putting a cap at 20 coming in and 20 going out means there is not much of the skills leaving or coming in.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-09-07 22:36:48 UTC
If you wish to bring up the topic of rules, you are supposed to search the forums for topics first, then if none are present or are too old and outdated post your thread.
Secondly this is just another style of pay to win like purchasing skill points.
If you want to get rid of skills on your toon that you don't want try submitting a petition asking to have the unwanted skills removed. Of course don't expect them to leave the skill points unallocated, they would just remove them if they would even bother.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Liquid'Courage
The Hatchery
#19 - 2012-09-08 01:36:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Liquid'Courage
In a lot of ways, I fully support this idea, or at least some way of increasing the speed at which you gain SP. Implants just don't cut it.....

This game is fantastic in a sense that there is no grinding in order to level, however, the time it takes in order to gain even the basic skills is ******* long. I can, and have, purchased characters which have more SP than myself, however, that doesn't allow me to use my personal reputation whenever I am flying with those characters. My character is linked to myself, and that is something I don't want to give up.

At the same time, although this character is only ~9 months old, it cannot fly anything well. Nothing.

There are literally years worth of basic core and fitting skills that every ship really benefits from, and there are still months of training required for the special skills that specific ships need, and you still need many months more for the gunneries/missiles/drones/spaceship commands that are required to fly even frigates properly. And without those skills, whenever you come across someone who is semi-competent and has those skills already, they will kill you 100% of the time. No piloting can fix that.

The difference between myself and a pilot who can fly a perfect frigate is staggering. In a lot of ways, this game comes down to "who has been playing longer".

Yes, a proper fit, and good piloting go a long way, but it is really ******* hard to overcome a 10%+ dps difference, a 10%+ tank difference, and other skills like long range targeting and signature analysis which allow them to get the first hit (which is incredibly important in any fight). And if you have 100 million SP, you should definitely have cyber 5, and can fly with snakes/slaves/crystals/etc. When you take it all into consideration, the difference between a character who has all relevant skills at 4 (which is still better than I have), and a character which has all relevant skills at 5 is at least 50%.

Sure, I could have trained straight for perfect gunneries for small ships, and there wouldn't be a 10% dps difference. However, if I had done that, then there would have been a 50% difference in tank, and a 50% difference in speed, etc. I could have also trained for a perfect tank, but sacrificed the SP I put into DPS skills. I could have gotten into snakes or slaves if I trained cyber 5, but if I had done that, then I would have had other holes in my skills. Etc.....

It is incredibly frustrating that I cannot use my character as well as I could use a character I can just buy with isk. There have been many, many occasions where I die in a fight that I would have won if I had more SP.

The idea behind the skills is absolutely fantastic. You have to spend your own time to specialize, and with how long skills take to train, you can never really have everything on a single character. That's a fantastic, and unique thing about eve. Also, people who are brand new to Eve cannot instantly sit in an overly expensive ship - the time they have to spend waiting to fly that ship should be enough time for them to learn how to not screw up too horribly.

However, at the same time, unless you have a shitload of SP, your character sucks at absolutely everything. You cannot specialize and fly any ship decently until you have well over a year worth of core and fitting skills already trained.

And I'm finding that very discouraging. I could use a character that is significantly better than what I have, and it is really, really tempting, simply because my character, even though 9 months old, is absolute crap still. I know my personal piloting skill has far surpassed what this character is capable of doing, but I don't want to give up the reputation and history that my character has already attained, which is what I would have to do if I used a different character.

At least, that's how I view it, as a mainly solo and small gang pilot. Maybe in large fleets SP is less of a factor. I don't really know. But some kind of change would be welcome. The physical skill training in game has not matched up with my personal piloting skill and knowledge change.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#20 - 2012-09-08 18:12:52 UTC
Nope.

Circumvents Attributes

That completely bypasses attributes. Yes, the skills are trained in real time, but that involves attributes and how skills are learned. Attributes affect speed, which your character would have one set and the other character would have another. It isn’t equal.


No Downside

Yes, real time training is an argument against buying SP and as a pro for character transfers, but skill transfers negates the down side of character transfers: you can't pick and choose and you get stuck with stuff you didn't want.


No Natural Limits

This also removes any natural limits of SP. In fact, you could create characters with more SP than an 03 character. Any artificial limits would be arbitrary. An older character should have more SP than a younger one.


Not Even Your Own Skills

When it comes to your skills, once trained, you have it until death do you part. (Update your med clones. >;} heh) What skills you choose to train affect what you can do and train later. Many PvP players want to remap industry skills for which they no longer have a use. They are even willing to take a cut to get the SP remap. Not how it works. Heck, many people want to remove skills, like mining, but that isn’t even allowed.


Use +5s and Remaps

We already have methods of faster training. The problem is everyone wants the SP now. That is not how it works; that’s never how it will work. Take advantage of those existing methods and plan out your long term training. Yes, plan… something else that instant training circumvents.

Any character should only be able to get more SP by training.
There should be no other way, ever, at all.


Ask for Faster Training

Faster training, now that I can get behind. We already have a booster that can accelerate attributes for new players. I would like to see boosters that can do that for older characters, one attribute type per booster. The drawback can be a chance at hurting another attribute, harder to raise standings, etc.