Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This concerns me a bit. Why not just make the stations in the parts of space that you apparently want to force us all into better? Is CCP bowing to the demands of the strident forum zealots and the null sec dominated CSM?

I'd like to know your longer term goals; whether high sec will continue to be a viable and entertaining area for more casual players not interested in dealing with the issues involved in low and null sec or, will it be nerfed until it's only a newbie starter area as some are calling for?

Until these changes hit sisi, it's hard to tell how bad or good they are going to be. Most everyone agress the bleed rate is too slow, so i'd expect that to change even before it hits sisi.

I agree with you on this.

Why is it not efficient?

Well because part of your time will be spent as the side that doesn't own many systems. And under the new system only idiots will plex for the side that is at the lower tier.

Let the idiots who plex for the losing side get your system to 75% don't do that with your own alts. Keep all your plexing characters on the winning side. That is how the new system will be farmed.

False. The winning side wants to make sure it still has plexes to run, so it will run up the few remaining systems to 90%, and then use plexing alt to run them back down to 75%. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Really, after 80% warzone control, then what? Why would you bother capturing the last 20%?

The majority of the reward for defensive plexing should be to hold onto system upgrades and warzone control, not LP. If LP is involved, then defensive plexing should require something more than an unfit frigate.


@CCP, will defensive plexing be under the same LP multipliers as offensive plexing? (75% of multiplied LP is a great ROI for an unfit frigate)

The FW system lacks immersion.

Timers:
Running down timers feels artificial and takes me out of the eve universe.
If you made taking over a complex like taking an Ihub it think that's fun way at least for me to gain Points if you have to hit a certain level of concerted damage you will be armed and able to fight also it will be very difficult to do AFK when I have fought and defeated something it gives a great sense of victory.
Potential Abuse Large gangs of ships could take down complexes quickly making complexes maintain captured status would help limit farming.

Arm The Stations:
These complexes are in Lo-sec a very dangerous place from a story point of view any complex manager with half a brain will be looking to arm his station with something look at any war and you will find all kinds of field modifications arm these stations guys it just feels right that they can fight back and story wise if i were running one of these spots i wouldn't trust some hot shot pilot to protect me instead of running off after some tempting target.

Loyalty Point Awards:
Static LP awards encourage farming and i think should be changed to better reflect the nature of warfare I think if it were based on the challenge encountered for instance say i take a complex in a condor and i was able to stay out of the range of the guns and took no damage then its not much of a challenge and a small amount of LP should be awarded however if I was in said same condor and was damaged into structure by a defending player before defeating him and the Plex then I should be given the equivalent of a combat citation and a subsequently larger LP award . The same applies for defensive plexing.

Benefits:
When you frequent a place you get to know the people that live and work there to represent this if you consistently defend or even capture a location you should get bonuses not based on LP spent to bump an artificial tier but based on the number of times you saved their butts there should be npcs that send a message for help to their favorite capsuleers when they are being attacked thats how direct messages should be sent maybe only while your within a region after all recapturing and freeing a friend will make for good stories. and with that level of gratitude maybe when you are in a favored system you would get bonus to sensors or perhaps a timely ecm jam of an enemy.

The Payoff:
This is how to build immersion for those playing the game without making it too slow and boring for the non Rp-ers it makes the adrenaline rush of combat primary and then gives the reinforcing payoff of reward plus recognition based on the quality of work not just allowing someone to do boring iterations also this allows you to do story-line changes easily for instance an often fought over Major complex lets say Deep Space 69 has a surprise weapons upgrade because the commander was frustrated with the local pilots not doing their best to defend the complex thus making it more challenging.

Mechanics are fine but story will help smooth over many of the rough spots.

So first of all, you're calling players like yourself that are loyal to a faction and who plex for PvP purposes idiots, discounting the years of history of players switching militias for PvP availability, or the recent batch of corporations signing up for kill opportunities idiots as well. You may think isk is the only reason players enlist in FW, but history says otherwise.

You're also making the gross assumption that the changes to plexes to eliminate the PvE interference with PvP won't support the cause of people enlisting for PvP in plexing, rather than just the isk.

I for one don't consider someone an idiot because they heard that signing up for the underdog meant that there were more targets to kill. In fact, that's a GREAT reason for pilots to sign up. I simply don't subscribe to the mentality you share with economic theorists like Corestwo and Gevlin that frame the balancing of the war solely in terms of isk-chasing.

In the new system, someone can join the underdog for half the penalty that exists today, and have an INCREDIBLY easier time increasing his bottom line by only needing to rise a single tier to reap immediate rewards. What pilots DONT want to do is sign up for a losing militia with 4x LP store costs and just pray that the others around him get their act together and blow through all the way up to teir 5 before they get bored and move on. In the new system, there is an immediate incentive to make progress, rather than the "hail-mary" hope of someday reaching tier 5 again, and living with LP they can't spend in the meantime.

I suppose some would argue that its cool for the underdog to be bled dry of income and resources while waiting for the spike, but I'm not one of them. I soundly reject the idea that manic swings in the warzone, and recovery based around a combination of "new recruits, optimism, and the pursuit of isk" is healthy for FW. I want a system where when the losing faction gets backed into a corner, they have the capability of fighting back for immediate income reward so they don't have to break immersion because financially they are so crippled they need to move elsewhere.

I think you're vastly underestimating the loyalty of traditional Faction Warfare enthusiasts to the faction they love and understimating how painful it was to make that break to switch factions for profit. Most don't want to do this, and I want everyone to have the tools they need to pull themselves up from the bootstraps, ratcheting back up one tier at a time, instead of just phoning some powerful friends when the chips are down and you need a savior.

People can still use plexes to help find pvp. But they will have very little incentive to actually finish the timer if no pvp arrives. It will be like before inferno.



What history are you refering to? You think i am wrong to say history demonstrates that plexers tend to go to the side that gives more isk?

Are you ignoring the mass exodus from amarr militia? Even with a relatively balanced system with no lp for defensive plexing Amarr still continues to lose players.

Are you going to argue that Minmatar lost just as many plexers as amarr leading up to and after inferno?

Really hans what history are you talking about?




The changes that eliminate pve interference is good and I have acknowledged that. As I have said this change *allows* people to pvp in the larger plexes when they couldn't before. But plexing is still going to be most efficiently done in a pve ship and running from every neutral and wartarget.

Excellent, we agree. No LP for defensive plexing (until they make it so unfit frigs can't complete them).

This is true. But if it becomes understood that offensive plexing is feeding in the DotA sense, the only way to make that superior income will be to perform an act that's shameful. The proposed system runs the risk of becoming what the current system was understood to be before people like Cearain solved it and started to only flip a huge number of systems at once: it becomes that any act you make to better yourself is mainly to the benefit of your enemy.

Simply removing defensive LP from the proposal would remove all risk of that. So long as defensive LP is included... well, it should be easy to imagine an extreme level of defensive LP that would cause the initially-losing faction to instantly give up on ever offensive plexing, if you want an emotional handle on what you want to avoid.

Another angle: right now, even the most hopeless act of contesting a system is one that harms the enemy (by making him sit around doing nothing for a bit for no reward) and that personally benefits you. So there's any reason at all in the present system for people to poke bee's nests like Sahtogas, and also the bees are likely to come out and sting. Would you really rather the bees mock you in local, thank you for taking the plex, promise to earn sweet LP after you slink away?

Well, it took a little while for that question to get answered. I guess people thought it the answer was obvious. But I also asked: