Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Here I was thinking I was alone. What exactly is the problem with the current tier system cashouts?

Militias strive for a goal (tier 5 cashout) that should take about 2 or 3 months to achieve (yes its achieved faster now with frigate alt armies but ideally it should take about 2-3 months.) and then cashout on victory day. Even the amarr have 50% of the systems over 50% contested. The new system by reversing lp payout and pricing and giving lp for defensive plexing destroys this.

One of many advantages to the current system is after a militia achieves tier 5 there is some incentive to join the side that is at tier 1 because there is no lp for defensive plexing and one side just cashed out. Join the side at tier 1 and you can earn lp for that faction by doing your plexing and then get in on their cash out.

The new system completely reverses this. Now when you pile on the winning side you will just get more lp. Those who worked to get the militia to tier 5 get no extra benefit. And the new comers will be getting lp for defensive plexing.

I anticipate the overall war will somewhat remain balanced just with everyone either in caldari or minmatar. But gallente and amarr might as well just disappear. That is unless there is a mechanic that has not beeen announced.


This new tier system will likely be much simpler though. No real strategies involved. No big pushes to flip several systems. No planning how to accomplish that or thwart your enemy from doing that. Just pick minmatar or caldari and do an endless number of plexing.

Guys the problem was that plexing is best done in pve ships (and based on everythign I read that will still be the problem after winer.) the tier system was fine.

If you are going to add a null sec item to level 5 systems, how about go all the way and any level 5 system can have bomb use and interdictors and/or heavy interdictor spheres. Maybe bubbles? If a system gets downgraded then bubbles would be automatically removed. If you fire off a bomb just as the system goes to 4, you either do no damage or lose sec status for every single person you hit plus gate / station guns if fired near them.

these are really good questions, and if all these really happens who want to be on tier1 side anymore?

On current system it is almost same on which side you are because you can trust that you can cash out your lp on some point with good rewards, so you have a long term goal. but with new system you do not have any goal, you lose lp just on that moment you get it and you your future actions can not boost it on any way.

Driving force of current FW , reduced lp prices at tier 5, will be gone, there is no point to really take any systems anymore if you are on tier1. Back to grinding missions !

Rewarding defensive plexing with lp based on contested level just rewards the defendign side for not fighting the offensive plexer before he captures a plex. They get more lp if they wait until he leaves and then plex the system after it contested higher.

All this because the minmatar thought they were getting punished for winning too many systems? All I can say is "poor minmatar" inferno has been so hard on you.

You do get rewarded for holding systems. The reward is the ability to hit tier 5. If you lose over 20% of the systems you can't hit tier 5.

What he said. No more AFK speed-tanking alts combined with LP payouts for defensive plex will probably mean that we won't see systems changing hands as often as we do now. I'm ready to bet on it.

Learn English.

Questions:

1. Do starbase fuel discounts apply to all starbases in system?
- For example if a war target has a tower in a friendly upgraded system do they get a discount? - Strikes me as rather unintuitive that they would benefit from some fuel discount from the opposing militia.

2. Do stations without manufacturing or research still get no benefit from the slot upgrades?
- Note there's only a very small percentage of systems in FW currently that have research slots so this upgrade is a bit useless without it adding slots to 'barren' stations.

3. Have you considered off the wall ideas like Mining bonuses for system upgrades or adding other unique content (kind of like COSMOS) to make these upgraded systems "special" in some way and promote more lowsec traffic?
- It strikes me that these upgrades are bare minimum effort and they are rather uninspired - I mean an LP bonus - how dull.

My opinion of these changes (and the others regarding NPCs) is that on the whole they are a rather drastic "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" proposal. Rather than amending the designs you went with in Inferno and keeping some of the good parts - like some of the dynamism of the warzone, you're adding yet more time sinks via "inefficient upgrading" for still rather shoddy upgrades (Cynojammer will have very limited use, POS fuel discount? - all uninspired) and making it even more a war about who has the most alts to run (now defensive) buttons.

From what I have read the warzone will become a dull never changing landscape with farmers simply switching to defensive plexing and less people attempting to offensive plex because it is still boring orbiting a button, just now it is now 10x less effective and more risky.

Hans, if you've helped CCP along this road you will be culpable too. Current FW is broken yes, but not stale. Why not just fix the broken parts with the current system like worthwhile system upgrades for ALL FW systems, not just a hotch potch few systems; Stop farmers by making people kill all spawns, make the LP store require a wide variety of tags for all items etc etc.

The proposed changes as they stand do not improve the latest broken system (which is flawed but interesting), they instead introduce yet another broken system that will actually be more akin to the old boring broken one than something new and exciting. These proposals are a step backward in making FW more 'fun', adding only more grind, and that is a shame.

I agree with what your saying reaction except for this. With the current reduction of LP stores it really requires constant flipping back and forth, killing the faction who's tier is lower. With the new system there isn't a reduction in prices, so that LP is worth the same in both cases, it might take longer getting your LP, but its still worth it.

Either way, CCP i love you for the new changes. I haven't seen one bad thing yet :fanboysigh:

I have a few worries here.

1# Cynojammers in Lowsec means it will interfere with Nullsec lifeline to Highsec how do you intend to solve this?
Hit point reduction is not a valid answer since thats a "patch" not a fix of the problem. my suggestion is allow Cynojammers only in 1 system for each militia at a time that way they can use it offensive and defend there stronghold but not lock down every system. After all no one want a Nullsec alliances raping your system every week for there logistics do you? not to mention the irritation it will cause for the power blocks.

2# science / manufacturing etc bonuses well this is in my book tied to the POS issue. get the [censored word] POS rewamp up and then you could (if done right) remove almost 90% of the Manufacturing/science slots in the Stations.

Right now building stuff in lowsec is not worth the risk the only thing my corp mates are building is Dreads/Carriers for Corp.

- Rising the cost for building/research is high sec isn't going to make a difference it will only affect the module price in the end.

- Lowering the Highsec refinement yield will only raise the prices of modules due to the risk involved in moving large quantities of ore to lowsec no one will take the risk. It will not happen due to Freighers are as slow as a snail trying to run a marathon and just aligning in lowsec will be perilous. lowering it to low and Poses will do the Refinement in highsec.

- Lowering the cost for building / researching in lowsec is such a small part of a tecII item that its not worth the fuz.
for example 10x Hobgoblin II regent cost 2.8M , research cost 0.5- 1M, building cost 100k so from a 4M total cost 100k is the cost to build it. thats 0.25% of the total value ... neglectable

- lowering the build/ research time, can be dooable but consider POS when you get to this. it will affect alot of stuff in highsec if you do this. moving a carebear alt to a lowsec station with research and do all the invention/research therre the risk is almost zero if you move the BPC back in a interceptor. It will not populate the lowsec more then the alt doing his invents there.

3# if you want to improve new player flying to lowsec remove learning implants. sorry but they are the biggest roadblock for any new player to fly to lowsec. a Rifter for 1-2M or implants for 50M i know where the cost/danger lies. when i was new i wasn't afraid of losing a few frigates but losing my learning implants would have meant a serious blow to my character.

4# accept that 70% of eves population is playing in highsec oout of my 6characters on 3 accounts only one is playing in nullsec the rest of my characters are support characters in highsec paying for my lifestyle in nullsec. I susspect more players are like me Highsec pays for the lowsec/nullsec cost of living. nerfing highsec will then hit the same players who play in nullsec or lowsec.




TLDR

* Cyno is dangerous for Nullsec powerblocks they will not tolerate them as it cuts there lifeline

* don't touch highsec science it will not improve lowsec

* remove learning implants as they are serving as a highsec roadblock to going to lowsec.

* Accept that 70% of eves population is playing in highsec, let them do that.

I have a idea..

Trash the whole upgrades thing and just put everything back the way it was before..

Upgrades do not last long enough to be worth while and it the whole thing is like watching a dog chase his tale. Upgrades are worthless and don't last.. Who gives a crap about clone costs & manufacture slots in the middle of low sec when people can farm a few billion isk in a week worth of LP.

Added to this we usually get 1 shot maybe 2 if the other side doesn't fight back a month to convert our LP into ISK. On top of this the time frame for ISK conversion usually only lasts 1 maybe 2 hours if you are lucky, then you are out of luck til the next dump. Meaning the LP farmers that are on 23.5/7 are usually the only ones befitting.

The whole upgrade system is a stupid concept and and the benefits are useless.. Honestly do you really think anyone is using manufacture slots when they can cash in a few million LP's for their isk?


FW was about casual game play with easy access to PVP and a decent way to make ISK to support that PVP. With missions even though I hated them, I could cash out my LP's when it was convenient for "ME". I didn't have to hope I could be around for a once a month LP dump, then find out I couldn't get online til a hour late or I have to work that day.


This whole thing has killed any sort of casual gameplay & has made PVP nothing but chasing farmers in gun-less ships. What do you plan to do about that?