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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

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olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#521 - 2012-08-17 11:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: olan2005
after seing t what the changes have done have to say u need to buff the hulk as it is suppose to have the best yield for the lowest tank however the risk v reward ration is crap the yeild diffrence should be above 20% of the rest of the exhumers as it has the weakest tank and smalles hold . this would make it more atractive right now its safer using mac and u dont have hit station as much even with a orca so its greater effecieny than a hulk to use macs and a orca then it is a hulk and orca right now even witn multiple accounts
Er Lik
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#522 - 2012-08-18 18:14:24 UTC
All rigs from mining barges should be 'unfit' by Eve and placed into your hanger. Come on Eve, DO THE RIGHT THING!
Chea Elohe
Dirty Underwear Gang Inc.
#523 - 2012-08-18 19:51:43 UTC
It is open season on miners and it would be nice to add a decoy vessel that can use a strip miner but ore capacity is limited to one cycles.

Ore Bay: 1,300 m3

Drone Bay: 10,100 m3 This would be suficient drone space for 2 fighters and 10 medium drones.

The following would be sufficient for the fittings

CPU 375
Power Grid 1175

Hi Power 4 Turrent Slots one for mining support one would be used for the strip minner.
Med 6 Slots
Low 5 Slots

Compaciter 1,400 gj
375 Refresh rate

Max Targeting Range 56 Km
Max Lockable Targets 4


Procurrer and the Skiff both give the solo user a better chance of survival and as a a newbe I like that. I would like to see one of these vessels modified with some teeth. During Late WWI and throughout WWII the allied forces modified heavy destroyers and crusers to look like friethers. I would like to see either the Skiff or the Procurrer modified to work the belts to take on those who have gotten used to tarketing the miners. It would add significant PVP action and give these individuals reason to reconsider targeting every minner the see.

Skill Training would be the gate keeper for this vessel as it should require Ship Command of 5 along with all the skills required for fighter qualification. The Default has two Fighters and 5 medium Drones or 10 small Drones. Carrier Skill level 2 with the needed modivication capability are required training requirement. This will also add a respectable fleet repair support vessel for later Faction Warfare. It depends on how we can balance the ship out to meet the mission goal. Story Line is very believable as I realy want a chance to return to pain to those who are tarketing me and my fellow minners.

Second Recommendation:

Modified Jets Can with Sensor and Improvised Smart Bomb. Again it is second nature for some to steal the containers. If this was the real world I believe every minor would be trying to research how to place an improvised weapon in the container that responds when a non-authorized vessle off-loads the can. The use of the smart bombs as a basis of the booby trap is the best place to start. This can be a research item for minners. The counter to this for the Rats is a hardened or Shielded Cargo Area. Depending on the Payload of the Booby Trap and the amount of ore taken with the device the damage area will include all vessles within 2500 mm of the weapon activation. Deployment of this type of can must be annouched in the tag or its use is an act of aggression. If the Tag gives the warning and is tipped then there is no aggression. Secondary damage to others within 2500 feet of the can is the responsibility of the other pilots. How the devices is cloaked and activated dictate if aggression occures. These and the types of devices need to be determined and balanced for game play. This is another action that would make the minner much happier and give the newbe's a
Frying Doom
#524 - 2012-08-19 03:32:52 UTC
Atum wrote:
Sigras wrote:
And yes, I know the other belts cant be mined like that, but the optimal strategy is to cherrypick the ABCM from the other belts and only mine out the Large Asteroid Cluster. If you're doing anything else, youre already being sub optimal so it doesnt matter what you do, because everything you do is already less than the best you could be doing.

This is the problem faced by USTZ miners everywhere... the Aussies, Russians, and Euros cherry pick everything before we have a chance to get in there Sad

Tough

We have to put up with US spelling here so you can have depleted belts ingame Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#525 - 2012-08-19 03:35:00 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Atum wrote:
Sigras wrote:
And yes, I know the other belts cant be mined like that, but the optimal strategy is to cherrypick the ABCM from the other belts and only mine out the Large Asteroid Cluster. If you're doing anything else, youre already being sub optimal so it doesnt matter what you do, because everything you do is already less than the best you could be doing.

This is the problem faced by USTZ miners everywhere... the Aussies, Russians, and Euros cherry pick everything before we have a chance to get in there Sad

Tough

We have to put up with US spelling here so you can have depleted belts ingame Lol

At least I've got all my natural teeth Pirate
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#526 - 2012-08-19 17:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
I'm OK with the new the designs, but the way they were implemented on the old models is just plain fugly.

I know, this is mostly a rp thing again, but if you had designed these ships from scratch, you would not have done it like this, and you (hopefully) know it.

I mean, here is the Hulk: a ship designed for superiour mining yield. It lacks good defenses or a large cargo bay, but despite that and being the biggest ship of the three, is has the lowest yield per turret of the 3 ships.Roll
Now how does that make sense? The biggest ship has no room for the amazing 1-turret-mines-as-3 tech despite not having defenses or large ore bay?Ugh

ArrowIt would have made more sense if you applied the Hulk stats to the Skiff model and vice versa (while keeping the Skiff 1-turret-as-3 bonus on the skiff of course), it would still be cheap and ugly, but at least it would make more sense.

And why so cheap anyway, you design combat ships quite regularly, why do the miners get this cheap solution? Aren't they worthy of new models?Sad

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Spice Flow
Spice Industrys
#527 - 2012-08-20 09:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Spice Flow
Idris Helion > said...


Yet another dumbass who didn't read the patch notes, didn't actually think about what the mining ships do now, and can only express themselves in a badly-spelled stream-of-consciousness rant.

CCP just gave you a massively pimp set of new ships for mining, and all you idiots can do is complain.


Look who's complaining and using derogatory statements.
nardaq
Orion Expeditions
#528 - 2012-08-20 19:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: nardaq
Spice Flow wrote:
Idris Helion > [....]
CCP just gave you a massively pimp set of new ships for mining, and all you idiots can do is complain.



"you idiots"
You're a PVPer, a ice/empire miner or a cheap abc farmer.

You (and you CCP) have no idea how this small cargo is a logistic nightmare for multi boxers when I'm (read myself) is the hauler to.
Nice idea for CCP to get in "fleet" but i have my own fleet. like the others PVPing/empire gangkers multi boxers
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2012-08-20 21:29:10 UTC
Yesterday I saw a Retriever take on and win against a Catalyst outside of a station.

I lolled heartily and realised CCP have done a good job Big smile
Spice Flow
Spice Industrys
#530 - 2012-08-21 04:10:09 UTC
Buzzmong wrote:
Yesterday I saw a Retriever take on and win against a Catalyst outside of a station.

I lolled heartily and realised CCP have done a good job Big smile



First. Must have been a younger player (character)... A properly made Catalyst with the proper skills can pump out some DPS... any good ganker knows this and how to fit right.

Second. An experienced ganker knows not to gank near stations or jump gates... this might have been a different story in an asteroid belt.

FYI... I am not a ganker but it pays to know a little on how things work to help defend myself.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#531 - 2012-08-21 15:31:11 UTC
Spice Flow wrote:
First. Must have been a younger player (character)... A properly made Catalyst with the proper skills can pump out some DPS... any good ganker knows this and how to fit right.

Second. An experienced ganker knows not to gank near stations or jump gates... this might have been a different story in an asteroid belt.

FYI... I am not a ganker but it pays to know a little on how things work to help defend myself.


Tbh, I think they were war targets rather than the Cat pilot being a suicide ganker, as there was no Concord involved as per a usual gank.

And from that I infer that the Cat was probably a rail cat for a newish PVE character.

Still was amusing to see though :)
Yui Okane-Mochi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#532 - 2012-08-23 10:32:47 UTC
Chea Elohe wrote:
It is open season on miners and it would be nice to add a decoy vessel...


Skiff already does a great job. Went mining during war in a skiff with long point, dual webs and the invulns off to appear like an easy kill. WT in cruiser decided to aggro and found himself tied down, and when backup arrived, very dead. Local was strangely free of the usual smack after that.

That the name of the skiff was Ackbar One should have raised some suspicions. :)

結衣
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#533 - 2012-08-23 11:50:30 UTC
Yui Okane-Mochi wrote:
Chea Elohe wrote:
It is open season on miners and it would be nice to add a decoy vessel...


Skiff already does a great job. Went mining during war in a skiff with long point, dual webs and the invulns off to appear like an easy kill. WT in cruiser decided to aggro and found himself tied down, and when backup arrived, very dead. Local was strangely free of the usual smack after that.

That the name of the skiff was Ackbar One should have raised some suspicions. :)

結衣



80k ehp and 188 dps isn't to be sneezed at, certainly Blink

Sure, solo you'll probably die, but it's fun as bait.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Chea Elohe
Dirty Underwear Gang Inc.
#534 - 2012-08-23 11:52:58 UTC
Yui Okane-Mochi wrote:
Chea Elohe wrote:
It is open season on miners and it would be nice to add a decoy vessel...


Skiff already does a great job. Went mining during war in a skiff with long point, dual webs and the invulns off to appear like an easy kill. WT in cruiser decided to aggro and found himself tied down, and when backup arrived, very dead. Local was strangely free of the usual smack after that.

That the name of the skiff was Ackbar One should have raised some suspicions. :)

結衣


Sounds good if you have a Corp that is Combat Smart. Many if not most miners do so alone or with an alt. Per the current CCP rules any one can steal a can and you have the right to attack. However, if you attack you get no support for anyone. I am talking about non-corporate players. There are also those corporations that include a collection of friends who want to mine and not to fight rigged battles. Yes the changes are spectacular as they stand it is a major step in the right direction. There is a mush better chance of survival for the lone user in the Skiff and the Procurrer. This is true and was needed. How ever CCP should be fair and real. If this were in any nation that had miners protecting their claim what would they do? I am a student of history and even a grammer school student could tell you of the traps used during the great meneral rushs in Alaska, Canada and the United States. Yes in our cities today setting up a death trap is illegal. I do not know the reason the game developers do not listen and give the miners a means of making us a less attrative target. Creation of a Decoy Vessel was used during Late WWI and WWII and it worked well for the Allies but the Acess adjusted there strategy and developed the pack to counter the threat of meeting up with an armed destroyer. That is real world this is a game. Some Gangers do it because it is easy credits. Those are the target of the decoy operation. Full trained, armed and fited teams will eat up even the best designed decoy vessel. The size of the ships prevent you from having a true carrier or battleship be modified to appear as a minning vessle. The vessle has to be able to mine as the easy test of the Ganger would be to sit around and see if it mines. As part of the Game the creation of the Decoy Vessel could be made part of a story line research that begines with one miner going from one research facility to another to develope an array of can tippers and gang deterants. Not as to off balance the game but as it is right now miners are the foot balls and anyone else can kick us around.
Frying Doom
#535 - 2012-08-24 02:57:38 UTC
Atum wrote:

At least I've got all my natural teeth Pirate

I might, it just depends on your definition of "my" Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Tinytacohead
AirwolfSquad
#536 - 2012-08-25 17:58:10 UTC
Thanks CCP for totally ruining the Hulk for us little guys. Roll May as well sell both of mine, as they're now parked indefinitely. (with their t2 cargo rigs) It seems every big patch brings negative changes these days. Not sure how much longer I'll put up with the BS this game's slowly evolving into, heh.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#537 - 2012-08-25 18:07:02 UTC
Tinytacohead wrote:
Thanks CCP for totally ruining the Hulk for us little guys. Roll May as well sell both of mine, as they're now parked indefinitely. (with their t2 cargo rigs) It seems every big patch brings negative changes these days. Not sure how much longer I'll put up with the BS this game's slowly evolving into, heh.



How's the Mack working out for you? As it'll have a higher yield than a cargo fit hulk.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#538 - 2012-08-25 21:03:16 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
I'm OK with the new the designs, but the way they were implemented on the old models is just plain fugly.

I know, this is mostly a rp thing again, but if you had designed these ships from scratch, you would not have done it like this, and you (hopefully) know it.

I mean, here is the Hulk: a ship designed for superiour mining yield. It lacks good defenses or a large cargo bay, but despite that and being the biggest ship of the three, is has the lowest yield per turret of the 3 ships.Roll
Now how does that make sense? The biggest ship has no room for the amazing 1-turret-mines-as-3 tech despite not having defenses or large ore bay?Ugh

ArrowIt would have made more sense if you applied the Hulk stats to the Skiff model and vice versa (while keeping the Skiff 1-turret-as-3 bonus on the skiff of course), it would still be cheap and ugly, but at least it would make more sense.

And why so cheap anyway, you design combat ships quite regularly, why do the miners get this cheap solution? Aren't they worthy of new models?Sad


I mentioned that, too, but it was not heard by CCP
Loose End
The Big Bambu
#539 - 2012-08-29 19:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Loose End
Been a miner since 07 and this is a wonderful change for the better and overdue. I think the gap between the Mack and the Hulk should have been wider for mining but since you tweaked the Hulk up for Ice then it's okay by me. Just a role reversal. By Jove's hairy nuggets you fish hugging technodorks did something right by my thoughts.

To you nice guys out there whinging about the changes? Adapt. This is EVE and not WoW. While Blizzard cuddles and nurses you until you want to vomit and waffles back and forth about decisions while charging you for expansions(at least they did in 06), CCP has been changing the field. I think the learning skills could have stayed. I think the racial bonus's should have stayed too. But we all adapted or we climbed out of our spaceships and put our diapers back on and went to suck a Blizzard nip.

To the guys who used to jump in a Catalyst and go gank someone?....now you have to train a little. And that was the point. No longer can you just jump in a account and train for a month to go kill a ship that it took months to qualify for and longer to really fly well. Exhumers are still killable....just not by three day old accounts.

Adapt or just go away....really far away....where I don't have to hear the whingeing.

Decoys. Great idea. I proposed one a while back. Proposed another one for POS's too. Still a good idea building ships out of wood and patching them with aluminium foil to make them look good on Radar.

Have an idea for a ship too...so does every other pilot out there. Wrong forum though.

Back to CCP...nice job. Now get rid of the inventory and put the real one back...April Fool is long over.
Spice Flow
Spice Industrys
#540 - 2012-08-30 04:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Spice Flow
Loose End wrote:
Been a miner since 07 and this is a wonderful change for the better and overdue. I think the gap between the Mack and the Hulk should have been wider for mining but since you tweaked the Hulk up for Ice then it's okay by me. Just a role reversal. By Jove's hairy nuggets you fish hugging technodorks did something right by my thoughts.

To you nice guys out there whinging about the changes? Adapt. This is EVE and not WoW. While Blizzard cuddles and nurses you until you want to vomit and waffles back and forth about decisions while charging you for expansions(at least they did in 06), CCP has been changing the field. I think the learning skills could have stayed. I think the racial bonus's should have stayed too. But we all adapted or we climbed out of our spaceships and put our diapers back on and went to suck a Blizzard nip.

To the guys who used to jump in a Catalyst and go gank someone?....now you have to train a little. And that was the point. No longer can you just jump in a account and train for a month to go kill a ship that it took months to qualify for and longer to really fly well. Exhumers are still killable....just not by three day old accounts.

Adapt or just go away....really far away....where I don't have to hear the whingeing.

Decoys. Great idea. I proposed one a while back. Proposed another one for POS's too. Still a good idea building ships out of wood and patching them with aluminium foil to make them look good on Radar.

Have an idea for a ship too...so does every other pilot out there. Wrong forum though.

Back to CCP...nice job. Now get rid of the inventory and put the real one back...April Fool is long over.

Oh come on... you just get done insulting people about their opinion(s) on the changes calling them whiners and more, then to still have ideas to change the way it is now, then to ridicule past changes, and what makes you think CCP is going to listen to you for future changes , then you finish off with your own whining... unbelievable... maybe you should take your own advice and “Adapt or just go away....really far away...” Again, Unbelievable.