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Stop forcing me to wear high heels

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Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2012-08-24 18:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vassal Zeren
Mary Annabelle wrote:
Vassal Zeren wrote:
This is the kind of edgy post i was talking about. This woman is simply stating her concern about the fact that all women in the game must wear high healed shoes and you are talking as if her opinion has no merit or consequence. I'm not saying you cant voice your opinions as well (and in any case i obviously cant stop you) I'm just pointing out that there is too much condescension on the eve forums, and if people would show more respect to each other and bicker less maybe the Devs would listen more.

Not being edgy here, just blunt and to the point.
I am specifically avoiding making any assumptions, to be fair to her.

She is acting as if our character pictures mean something in the game, so far as what shoes we are wearing.
She is defining the shoes themselves as a type of label that demeans women.

I respect that in real life she has the right to stand up for herself, and socially reject standards for footwear that she finds offend her.

This is a game.

For all you know, I have clown shoes on in my picture.
Unless you make a female character, you probably have no idea what shoes we wear, or what other options we have.

That is my point.
I can't see the shoes having any affect, but I am willing to let her attempt to make her case, and listen when she does.

Why do I bother, you might ask?
She is only going on about shoes demeaning her... right?

Because frivolous content can be as demeaning as shoes, and I want her to look good.

For that, I need to feel like I can stand behind her on this.
Which means this has to make sense to me first.


Thank you for the clarification. I get your point and I take back what i said about the edgy.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2012-08-24 19:42:17 UTC
I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.

During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#123 - 2012-08-24 20:08:18 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.

During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard.

Now I understand, thank you for explaining.

I support your logic. There is no reason for you to be pushed into any one single mold by anyone, and EVE is supposed to be a sandbox.

That being said, I doubt they will bother changing what to them possibly seems like a trivial detail at this stage.
If they should follow through and let us walk in stations, etc, that may change. It then becomes significant how we are seen, because we will be seen at that point.

I have no interest in being judged on details unrelated to my piloting ability.

+1
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2012-08-24 20:11:54 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.

During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard.


Yes but high heals arnt exactly on par for atrocity with pedophilia.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2012-08-24 21:19:56 UTC
Mary Annabelle wrote:
Isabel Midnight wrote:
I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.

During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard.

Now I understand, thank you for explaining.

I support your logic. There is no reason for you to be pushed into any one single mold by anyone, and EVE is supposed to be a sandbox.

That being said, I doubt they will bother changing what to them possibly seems like a trivial detail at this stage.
If they should follow through and let us walk in stations, etc, that may change. It then becomes significant how we are seen, because we will be seen at that point.

I have no interest in being judged on details unrelated to my piloting ability.

+1


NICE communication! GO team!

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2012-08-26 19:09:38 UTC
bump
Mishtkrah
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2012-08-26 19:41:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mishtkrah
This is clearly a troll, regardless. Rantinc.


While you are worrying about your hats, I sit here unable to log into EVE without getting socket disconnection errors.

Seems that you are just finding things to complain about. I don't mean to sound any kind of -ist, but try turning off CQ and playing the game.

I agree that there shouldn't be a gender restriction on clothing (in an ideal world) but is it really that big of a deal? Who wanders about in their CQ looking at their character anyhow?

Clearly an oversight and not nearly as important as logistics frigates (****... yes.)



TL;DR Tilt your camera up in CQ, problem solved.

Hmm... also.

There seems to be a distinct lack of sandwiches around here... I'm just saying...

EDIT: Where is my lipstick? I also require breasts for my male alts. I can't believe I am FORCED to have a flat chest. It's ridiculous and completely sizeist, if I want moobs I should get them, shows a real lack of thought for all the fatties in the world. Utterly absurd. Frankly. Honestly. Jesus. *walks out of thread in a 'tizzy'*
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2012-08-26 23:23:48 UTC
More dismissive misogynistic trash...
Nasferty
Minmatar United Freedom Front
#129 - 2012-08-27 04:01:32 UTC
Huh and here I was thinking I was the only one that was a bit miffed about not being able to wear practical shoes. This is not something I'm holding my breath for but yeah I'd like new shoes and hopefully when we get the full on walking in station package (whenever that may be) we will get them.
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2012-08-28 12:18:20 UTC
bump
Isabella Rascario
Delphinian Enterprises
#131 - 2012-08-28 13:49:46 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
bump for feminsm


bump for making my ass look great in these high-heeled boots. Big smile

“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#132 - 2012-08-28 14:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Someone is taking this far too seriously.

Look, I get it that you don't like high heels. That's fine, don't wear them. I know some women who genuinely do like them, and that's also fine. My wife doesn't own any because she's 5'8, and heels make her tall to the point of drawing attention.

I can't agree with any notions of heels being misogynistic (btw, using that word only marginalizes you...avoid it). Most of the women I know well enough to talk to about such things tell me they feel like they look their best in heels, even if they can't wear them for long. When creating an avatar it stands to reason that women want to create an idealized version of themselves, and for many high heels are a part of that.

The screen shot showing the feet molded for high heels should clue you in to part of it: they designed the model for a single shoe type. for the time being, the feet are inflexible, so they had to either only offer heels, or not offer them at all. For whatever reason, they chose heels. Probably because that's what the art department thought looked best (see previous paragraph).

Why do almost all games feature men with chiseled abs? Because that's how most of us want to picture ourselves. We're not going to take a game seriously with a potbellied, farmer-tanned hero.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#133 - 2012-08-28 14:37:23 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off.


Some of the ships in Eve are ugly. If they still do their jobs, I still fly them.

You're complaining because the artwork isn't according to your taste. Correction: you're angry because because you don't like the artwork.

Grow up.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Sinister Zed
Morbidus Comitatus
#134 - 2012-08-28 18:56:25 UTC
If some fat-assed guy wants to roleplay an Emo chic in his games (Isabel Midnight) , that's fine by me but can we please have some coffins for corpses too?
Katalci
Kismesis
#135 - 2012-08-29 01:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Katalci
While I agree that there should have been no sex-based restrictions from the start, changing it now would take away dev time that could be spent on things that are actually a part of the real game.
Cpt Gobla
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2012-08-29 09:25:17 UTC
Do agree that limiting female characters to high heels isn't cool.

So +1 for that one.

-1 for the OP combating sexism with even more sexism though. If you're being treated in a sexist fashion as a woman (or man) then treating the other gender in a sexist fashion by calling them all misogynistic pigs (or misandristic bitches) doesn't somehow make the situation more equal. It just makes it even worse, even more sexist.

So yeah, good point on the high heels. Bad point on the hypocrisy of generalizing all men.
Isabel Midnight
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2012-08-29 14:30:02 UTC
Being told to not use the word misogynistic because it marginalizes me...by a man... wow?

How about this , it was misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.
Cpt Gobla
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2012-08-29 15:21:33 UTC
It's not the word misogynistic that's the problem.

It's you considering me being a man a defining factor in whether my points hold value or not.

And yes, it was indeed misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.

But you laying the fault with the male gender does not improve things. It only makes the entire situation even more sexist.

Just because a portion of men (it's not even just men) treat you in a sexist manner does not give you a free pass to then turn around and treat men in a sexist manner.

I mean turn that part around into "... by a woman... wow?", I'm pretty sure you'd consider that sexist against women. So why do you use the reverse yourself?
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#139 - 2012-08-29 16:26:02 UTC

Female capsuleers don't wear high heels.

Due to a weird design flaw any female capsuleer has incredibly elongated heels on their clone, so what you mistaken think is a heel for display is actually encasing your cloning defect.

HTH

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#140 - 2012-08-29 16:32:44 UTC
Isabel Midnight wrote:
Being told to not use the word misogynistic because it marginalizes me...by a man... wow?

In a discussion on the topic of racism, calling someone a racist is a sure way to completely shut down any dialog. Telling a man he's misogynistic because he doesn't share your view of the world is the same thing. If you want to sway opinions, you'll have to stop insulting people for a bit.

Clue: Misogyny is "hatred or dislike of women or girls." Not everything you view as misogynistic comes from any such intent. For example, I could say "I really want my wife to quit her job and stay home with the kids." You might immediately assume I'm an oppressive pig who wants a barefoot pregnant wife making me sandwiches. The truth of the matter is, that was my wife's ambition, and it became my ambition out of love for her.

She quit her job last month and is happier than ever. God I'm such a pig.

Also, I'm way better at making sandwiches.

Isabel Midnight wrote:
How about this , it was misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.


You're asserting that CCP hates women. I'm suggesting that maybe they just prefer the look of women in high heels. Or maybe they did market research, and most of the women in their research preferred characters who wore high heels. As they seem to have been limited to one shoe type per model, they went with what they thought would be most preferred. Don't assume malice when profit, preference, and ignorance are all possibilities.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.