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TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#181 - 2012-08-28 16:20:46 UTC
Kult Altol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Kult Altol wrote:
1)TL;DR
2)Vets whining about eve getting softer.
3)Why do bitter vets care about what happens in high sec?
4)Oh this thread again.


Because we care as the game as a whole, and don't like the overall shift in direction (and audience) ccp is taking?

Go be stupid somewhere else.


Thank you for your extremely enlightened opinion. Some day I wish do be as intelligent as you. You are the reason newer players leave eve. Eve is linear in such a way as to encourage progression. Normally you start in high sec, move to low sec, go to WH or null sec. Instead of belittling the buffing of high sec, maybe you "Vets" should make the other areas of eve more inviting. Smile


I disagree with your talking about the "linear progression". My earliest days were spent in null, then I came back to hisec and did merc work, then to lowsec for fw, then eventually to wspace. I dont think I'm the odd one out here either, nothing in EVE is structured in a way that promotes "linear progression" down the sec status of space into null.

As for making other areas more inviting... we can't do that. That's up to CCP. CCP seem to be trying to hit various other areas of eve with the nerf/stupid bat too, though many vets are speaking out trying to stop them ruining stuff entirely.
Ginger Barbarella
#182 - 2012-08-28 16:22:35 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I think this is probably the first topic I have created in over 3 years on Eve Forums, but after reading the linked article I came to the conclusion that every single Eve player needs to read it. I would be very curious to hear the opinions on it.

http://themittani.com/features/road-nerfdom-highsecs-carebear-future



Stopped reading when the disgraced lawyer's name came up.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#183 - 2012-08-28 16:22:59 UTC
Andski wrote:
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Andski wrote:
Matriarch Prime wrote:
If the cop could warp to the banks location in a moments notice...yeah, I think they could pull it off. You do understand analogy though right? The point is that the mechanics don't make any sense to anyone else but eve players...


the point is that you want absolutely no risk in hisec at all whatsoever


There shouldn't be that much risk...it is afterall HIGH SECURITY SPACE. Not saying there should be no risk but yeah...it's kinda fine the way it is.


there isn't much risk for those who take steps to mitigate it, which is fine

what some people want, however, is to be able to autopilot their officer fit tengus with plex in the hold between market hubs


I just don't see CCP ever giving in to that amount of safety. I don't think it's anything we need to worry about.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#184 - 2012-08-28 16:23:26 UTC
Elysium Foxx wrote:
Suicide ganking is still (and should still) be possible in hisec, however, it was always a semi-broken mechanic that certain members of the eve community took too far and forced CPPs hand into fixing. The way they did it was to balance/buff barges, which also needed attention anyway.

If ppl like James and the gsf gank bounties hadn't happened, it prob wouldn't have been changed.

But at the end of the day, there should be real consequences for "suiciding" yourself, NOT profit, that's just dumb. I never heard of a guy strapping a bomb to himself, setting it off and, well, being rewarded with living and also getting given a new 60" LCD tv for his troubles. You are still able to sui-gank, that hasn't changed, but you need to find your profitable hauler ganks etc now, not soft easymode hulk ganks. Or use it as a last resort, or a FU revenge attack on someone who made you buttsore and sadfaced.

Basically the only ppl that are whining are the pathetic players who either made profit from bad game design, or ppl who actually thought it was cool PvP coolness.

Empire is still as unsafe as it was, I'm not sure why the fuss. Sui-ganking is better now imo.


A good real world analogy for suicide ganking:

You are playing golf. Someone runs up to you, shoots you with a Taser. Half your clubs fall into a nearby water hazard and he takes the other half. As a penalty, the police take away his Taser.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#185 - 2012-08-28 16:25:15 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Came expecting link to Poetic Stanziel blog. Not sure if this is better or worse.


it is both better AND worse. it is a better trainwreck of "OMG PLAYERS MIGHT GET TO PLAY IN A FASHION I DISLIKE!! OMG WHAAAA!!"

Riot Girl wrote:
TIN FOIL HATS

Yes, my thoughts exactly.


^^^^

Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Saw the name - james 315.

Stopped right there.

It is probably best for james if folk do not encourage his really strange obsession with miners.

His article will be about miners and how they are destroying Eve. He should change his name to James One-Note.

The self obsessed ego (mittens) and the miner obsessed ego.


^^^^

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Myxx
The Scope
#186 - 2012-08-28 16:28:10 UTC
saw the name james 315.
knew what it was going to say
read it anyway
found myself nodding and agreeing despite having been on both sides of the issue, as someone who has mined in the past and as someone who has had a history with aggression in highsec.
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#187 - 2012-08-28 16:29:31 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:


Amount of Risk Involved:

Null Sec > Low Sec > High Sec

Amount of Isk that can be earnt per hour:

Null Sec > Low Sec > High Sec

"Ideal" Character progression (i.e. what you want the majority of players to do):

Highsec -> Low Sec -> Null Sec


As a rule of thumb anything you can do in empire should be more profitable (assuming you don't die) or you can do it better/longer/faster/stronger in Low Sec.

Then anything you can do in Low Sec is more profitable in Null Sec.


You missed the Elite zone a.k.a. Wormholes.
There are a lot of wormhole systems.



That's a good point, I also missed stuff like exploration etc.

I don't know enough about wormholes to say where they fit on that chart, but as a rule of thumb the risk players take needs to be proportional to reward.

If there is a say a 47.5% chance you'll lose a 100mil ship in a week (number picked for sake of number, it's not specific), doing something that means if you pick any given 3 weeks there is a 85.53% chance that you lost a ship in one of those weeks (I think). So therefore logically you need to be able to buy a new ship (100mil) AND make money in that location in a 4 week period (say 300 mil). So in 4 weeks using those sorts of figures you should make 400 mil a month.

If there's a 2.5% chance of you dying in any given week, if you pick any 3 weeks at random then there's only a 7.31% chance that you'd lose your 100mil ship. So therefore instead of losing your ship once every 4 weeks you're going to lose it once every 40 weeks. So you need to be able to make 100mil minimum in that 40 weeks, plus some extra, lets say 300mil.

Both players earn the same money but one takes longer than the other. Now you can argue the toss about the numbers (and someone will) but the principle is sound. Your ship is an investment and you should get a return on that., the less likely your ship is to die the less quickly you need to be able to get a return on it.

If I took those two scenarios and assumed scenario 1 was null sec and scenario 2 was high sec and I had a choice between earning 400mil - 100mil over 40 weeks or earning that over 4 weeks I'd pick the latter UNLESS I really hate people blowing me up that much.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Danks
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
#188 - 2012-08-28 16:47:24 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Elysium Foxx wrote:
Suicide ganking is still (and should still) be possible in hisec, however, it was always a semi-broken mechanic that certain members of the eve community took too far and forced CPPs hand into fixing. The way they did it was to balance/buff barges, which also needed attention anyway.

If ppl like James and the gsf gank bounties hadn't happened, it prob wouldn't have been changed.

But at the end of the day, there should be real consequences for "suiciding" yourself, NOT profit, that's just dumb. I never heard of a guy strapping a bomb to himself, setting it off and, well, being rewarded with living and also getting given a new 60" LCD tv for his troubles. You are still able to sui-gank, that hasn't changed, but you need to find your profitable hauler ganks etc now, not soft easymode hulk ganks. Or use it as a last resort, or a FU revenge attack on someone who made you buttsore and sadfaced.

Basically the only ppl that are whining are the pathetic players who either made profit from bad game design, or ppl who actually thought it was cool PvP coolness.

Empire is still as unsafe as it was, I'm not sure why the fuss. Sui-ganking is better now imo.


A good real world analogy for suicide ganking:

You are playing golf. Someone runs up to you, shoots you with a Taser. Half your clubs fall into a nearby water hazard and he takes the other half. As a penalty, the police take away his Taser.


Brick, that doesn't make any sense.
Din Chao
#189 - 2012-08-28 16:47:59 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I think this is probably the first topic I have created in over 3 years on Eve Forums, but after reading the linked article I came to the conclusion that every single Eve player needs to read it. I would be very curious to hear the opinions on it.

http://themittani.com/features/road-nerfdom-highsecs-carebear-future



Stopped reading when the disgraced lawyer's name came up.

How informed you must be, going through life avoiding the mere mention of certain names. I sincerely hope you do not live in a country that allows you to elect its leaders.
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2012-08-28 16:51:29 UTC
Danks wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Elysium Foxx wrote:
Suicide ganking is still (and should still) be possible in hisec, however, it was always a semi-broken mechanic that certain members of the eve community took too far and forced CPPs hand into fixing. The way they did it was to balance/buff barges, which also needed attention anyway.

If ppl like James and the gsf gank bounties hadn't happened, it prob wouldn't have been changed.

But at the end of the day, there should be real consequences for "suiciding" yourself, NOT profit, that's just dumb. I never heard of a guy strapping a bomb to himself, setting it off and, well, being rewarded with living and also getting given a new 60" LCD tv for his troubles. You are still able to sui-gank, that hasn't changed, but you need to find your profitable hauler ganks etc now, not soft easymode hulk ganks. Or use it as a last resort, or a FU revenge attack on someone who made you buttsore and sadfaced.

Basically the only ppl that are whining are the pathetic players who either made profit from bad game design, or ppl who actually thought it was cool PvP coolness.

Empire is still as unsafe as it was, I'm not sure why the fuss. Sui-ganking is better now imo.


A good real world analogy for suicide ganking:

You are playing golf. Someone runs up to you, shoots you with a Taser. Half your clubs fall into a nearby water hazard and he takes the other half. As a penalty, the police take away his Taser.


Brick, that doesn't make any sense.


I thought it was a pretty good analogy, much better than what I came up with.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Din Chao
#191 - 2012-08-28 16:56:29 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
A good real world analogy for suicide ganking:

You are playing golf. Someone runs up to you, shoots you with a Taser. Half your clubs fall into a nearby water hazard and he takes the other half. As a penalty, the police Taser him.

Adjusted slightly.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#192 - 2012-08-28 17:30:00 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I think this is probably the first topic I have created in over 3 years on Eve Forums, but after reading the linked article I came to the conclusion that every single Eve player needs to read it. I would be very curious to hear the opinions on it.

http://themittani.com/features/road-nerfdom-highsecs-carebear-future



propaganda Roll
Ensign X
#193 - 2012-08-28 17:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ensign X
Trust me when I tell you that your EVE Forum reading pleasure will be exponentially increased by blocking / hiding posts by the following players:

  • James315
  • PipaPorto
  • baltec1

Even if you never read the massive whine threads they create and frequent, you literally cannot go wrong by avoiding the drivel they exude on the rest of these forums on a daily basis.
Ginger Barbarella
#194 - 2012-08-28 17:49:41 UTC
Din Chao wrote:

How informed you must be, going through life avoiding the mere mention of certain names. I sincerely hope you do not live in a country that allows you to elect its leaders.


Bang that gong, shill, bang that gong. Cool

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#195 - 2012-08-28 17:50:40 UTC
Read it, wish I missed it. I saw nothing more than a tin foil hat conspiracy with no compelling arguments for the points made.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#196 - 2012-08-28 17:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Too-Boku wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Saw the name - james 315.

Stopped right there.

It is probably best for james if folk do not encourage his really strange obsession with miners.

His article will be about miners and how they are destroying Eve. He should change his name to James One-Note.

The self obsessed ego (mittens) and the miner obsessed ego.


There's a lot more to it than miners. Set aside your prejudice, hate and preconceived notions and read the article.

Well... as much as I enjoyed the article, while it pretends to be about high sec in general it really is just about the miners and suicide ganking.

Yes, it references war dec's and such but we all know that system isn't finished yet. It's main focus, and reoccuring theme, is the increasing difficulty suicide gankers are having.

The ability to suicide gank a miner must absolutely remain possible. However previously it was like an all you can eat buffet (in large part due to the lack of skill of the victims, but also due to it being too profitable and easy over all), with any pilot able to make decent money with little or no preperation or intelligent target selection (despite well articulated arguments otherwise).

Suicide ganking should be done for specific reasons:

1: The occasional target is found that has been scanned and found to be juicy enough to warrant the risk/loss.
2: You have a reason to wage economic warfare on the target organziation or individual.
3: You are teaching someone a lesson.

It should not be done because you have 5 minutes to kill and needs some extra ISK.

I would start worrying when we see the harder to locate, but more lucuative targets being protected by the nerf shield... namely cargo haulers of all types including freighters. Even with no insurance payout if the time is spent to find an appropriate target the profits can be huge. It's just not as easy as taking a couple of destroyers out to the nearest belt while an alt distracts Concord.

Miners were being routinely farmed for a profit, and it was so easy it was a fairly widespread practice (shame on you lazy miners). I don't see a problem with making it harder profit from the excercise, as long as it isn't impossible... but trying to make the case that CCP is on the road to making High Sec a non-aggression zone is an unrealistic (if well worded) stretch.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2012-08-28 17:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabrina Solette
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Din Chao wrote:
Sabrina Solette wrote:
2) NPC corps, reduce the willingness to join player corps due to the fact you can't get back to the starter corp once you've joined a player corp (if that player corp proves to be not a great place to be).

Not sure what you mean here. Are you under the impression that once you join a player corp, you can't return to an NPC corp?

Sabrina Solette wrote:
You can't return to the NPC starter corp that you started in, you end up in one of what I call the drop-out NPC corps where other ex-player corp pilots go.

Vincent Athena wrote:
You cannot return to your Starter NPC corp as you go to a different one. If you left friends there who are unwilling to move, you cannot return to them.

Eh? Wtf are you two blathering about?

What difference does your NPC corp make?

What do you mean by "unwilling to move" and "return to them"? Surely players in NPC corps can go where the hell they like?

Or am I missing something here?




Yep you're missing something.


If you're in the starter NPC corp for sometime you get to know some of the people there. So if you then leave to join a player corp and don't like it there and leave the player corp you end up in a different NPC corp where it's likely you won't know anyone.

Also not all NPC corps are the same, some make you feel that you are playing a solo game for the most part as hardly anyone speaks others like CAS (the one this character is in) is actually quite good. In my experience starter NPC corps are generally better than drop-out NPC corps.

Of course if someone does not bother to interact with anyone then it makes no difference what NPC corp they're in, but if you are into interaction which NPC corp can make a big difference.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#198 - 2012-08-28 18:13:13 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I would be very curious to hear the opinions on it.

It's pretty much spot-on. If you take Herr Wilkus' list (linked in the article) into account you'll realize just how much safer high-sec has become even since I started playing, right before Incarna. Make no mistake, it will get safer, and that's a terrible recipe for EVE because it sucks **** for PvE. On top of that the risk-reward formula is currently out of whack for many areas and activities (from my POV at least); high-sec needs some commensurate nerfs to be brought into line with the rest of the game right now (who knows what it'll need if it gets even safer!)

Carebears don't care about the game, they care only about themselves, and they will destroy this game if they get the chance.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#199 - 2012-08-28 18:18:25 UTC
Ensign X wrote:
Trust me when I tell you that your EVE Forum reading pleasure will be exponentially increased by blocking / hiding posts by the following players:

  • James315
  • PipaPorto
  • baltec1

Even if you never read the massive whine threads they create and frequent, you literally cannot go wrong by avoiding the drivel they exude on the rest of these forums on a daily basis.


Why am I not on this list?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-08-28 18:19:22 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:


Carebears don't care about the game, they care only about themselves, and they will destroy this game if they get the chance.


No, they just want to destroy your game.

*snigger*