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What keeps you from PvPing?

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Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#521 - 2012-08-27 15:11:09 UTC
In my opinion, the biggest obstacle to PvP and new PvP Players is ignorance and a refusal to play socially in a social game.

Ignorance, i.e. a basic lack of knowledge of who, and what, is out there for a player to join and the myriad of options, from huge to small, hardcore to casual, that exist.

And the refusal or inabillity to engage is the social aspect fo this VERY social-based game.

Playing EVE as a single-player game is very hard/frustrating if youw ant to enjoy PvP. It's EVE on Hard Mode, no question.

But even a tiny effort at being social, exploring yoru options, can fix everything and put you in a palce where you'll still enjoy EVE years later.

Thast what happened to me. I found CVA.

Before CVA, I was bored, frustrated, and ready to quit.

Then I found CVA, who does not (and never did) the various horribel demanding things so many complain about null sec. No mandatory ops, not anti-casual rules, etc. Just basic "don't shoot non-reds" and "please try to fly the right fittings, see our website". Easy, basic, and led to tons of fun, and a lifetime of access to null-sec, fun, good people, and PvP.

Honestly, no matter what it is you want, it exists, and is out there in EVE for you, if you're willing to put in some effort (even casual effort) to go out and find it, and be a little social (just a little) when you do.

Not every Null-sec Alliance is Goons.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#522 - 2012-08-27 15:22:19 UTC
I've just made myself a ganky alt so I can train frigates and small turrets on it while my main trains the Battleships skills she needs for running level 4s. This means I can do some solo PvP while I'm not mission running and I can still focus on training those really long and boring skills.

I used the recruit a buddy system to give my alt a 21 day trial, but I have a question. If I plex my alt, will CCP still give the reward to my main account or will they refuse due to my buddy not actually being my buddy?

Oh god.
Conrad Lionhart
#523 - 2012-08-27 15:31:44 UTC
PvP is a money sink.

I play by PLEX and not subscription, and PvP means losing ships, which costs money, money which could have gone into next month's PLEX.
Amber Coldheart
Doomheim
#524 - 2012-08-27 16:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Amber Coldheart
Marconus Orion wrote:
What keeps you from PvPing?


Good question :)

Sort of a "full circle" thing in my case :

1. In the start, lack of SP meant dead meat.
2. As SP grew, i didnt have time as i was helping my corp.
3. As SP grew even more, i started to get bored with missioning and mining, and via a friend got accepted into a 0.0 alliance.
4. Traveled down to 0.0, took part in a few roams, then concluded that whoever thought that was PvP must have been dropped on their heads as children (blob warfare is.... not fun).
5. Eventually quit the game in frustration, because i really had no more goals to pursue (not that i had tried it all, by all means, but because i didnt want to spend another 6 months learning how to research, make stuff, etc).
6. Came back a few weeks ago, everyone i know has left the game, so i dont have a clue what i'll do :)

Probably wont be PvP though, currently looking at the viability of "surviving" on PLEX alone rather than a subscription (kind of tricky on 3 accounts).
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#525 - 2012-08-27 16:23:33 UTC
Amber Coldheart wrote:
i dont have a clue what i'll do :)

You can help my alt gank miners and get chased down by angry corps if you like.

Oh god.
Amber Coldheart
Doomheim
#526 - 2012-08-27 16:24:32 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Amber Coldheart wrote:
i dont have a clue what i'll do :)

You can help my alt gank miners and get chased down by angry corps if you like.

lol, since i AM one of those miners, i'll have to respectfully decline your offer Lol
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#527 - 2012-08-27 16:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
What keeps me from PVP'ing?

I suck at it and get killed a lot.

Getting killed a lot makes me look like an easy mark when people see me in the "victim" column of killboards all the time. This in turn provokes mockery and contempt in the PVP'er heart when people see me arrive in-system. Gankers, pirates, even (I suspect) NPC's: they laugh and point and lay their plans to destroy my humble little frigate. Not for ISK, but just to see my poor space-desiccated remains floating in the cold dark abyss, my pod having been reduced to the elements by a barrage of weapons fire.

My toon only wishes to delve into the mysteries of lowsec and null, to experience the wonder and mystery of uncharted space. He lives for the beyond, for the unknown, for the excitement of conquest and honorable combat. But his fate is sadly to be reduced to a frozen husk during every hostile encounter.

It's a sad tale, really.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#528 - 2012-08-27 16:53:49 UTC
looking for targets.
go to low solo 90% chance I come up against a gang.
go to null same thing.
war dec highsec they dock for years, or only kill miners and such which isn't worth it.
Anslo
Scope Works
#529 - 2012-08-27 18:17:10 UTC
Matriarch Prime wrote:

The crux is that I do not want to be looking over my back when I am not wanting to pvp. Staying a NPC corp, while not ideal, allows me to do just that. If I stay out of low security when I'm doing exploration or missioning or whatever, I'm fairly safe. It is not likely that I would be attacked in my mission ship. I don't use expensive modules, and I would still be a hard kill, so the gankers would likely get concordokken before they could get a kill mail of little value.

I don't usually have much trouble with ninja looter/salvager although it does happen from time to time. I deal with them by warping out fairly frequently to make probing difficult, popping wrecks if they do find me, which makes them move on fairly quickly. Though occasionally one will be fairly stubborn. Half the time I don't even bother salvaging unless there is a particularly high amount of large wrecks.

I play for my own enjoyment. I am not someone elses content to be farmed like an NPC. Which is what happens when you open yourself up to pvp and you do a large amount of pve content. I been there, and I done that, and now I'm in an NPC corp. I get that most players either don't understand that or disapprove of it, but it is the solution that brings me the most amount of enjoyment from the game.

I would love to things like faction warfare, incusrions or participate in all the neat stuff you can do in low/null, but losing my money maker (mission ships) to pvp fits is not my cup of tea. I didn't come to this solution without having experienced a problem already. I was in a low sec corp at one time. I lost a couple of ships to ganks, and the last was my a hurricane (the replacement hurricane is still in my hanger). I lost that last ship to frigate that kept me locked down as soon as I left dock while he called his buddies up to come kill me. I couldn't do anything for like 20 minutes until they finally showed up and killed me. I had just resubbed, and at some point my corp at the time had been wardecced and I didn't know about it. I learned my lesson well.

I'm not dumb. I learn from my mistakes and take efforts to not repeat them. Others may not understand, but that is how I came to my current conclusion. I get that other players have there own beliefs as to what eve is about, but I have my own. And I believe my values are more important to my personal enjoyment than what another player may believe. So while others may say, "get over it" "boohoo", I do understand where the are coming from. I didn't join an npc corp because I could handle pvp, I joined it because eve's pvp isn't as important to me.

I don't really know how to explain it ebtter than that. But hopefully there is at least enough insight to to understand my position.


^THIS.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#530 - 2012-08-27 18:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I can't PvP with capital ships in Rifters-Online. Here's why:

1) Capitals are too expensive for what they have to offer
2) I need team work to move versus just moving where I please
3) Takes years to lock something if you are not SEBO fitted
4) Capitals are somewhat impractical to go Rifter hunting, despite them being entitled to the teeth to do so
5) I can't grief hisec towers or bring carriers into Empire to help with station camps or POS bashes
6) They attract attention
7) Lots of attention
8) Their too slow
9) Capital Weapon turret tracking on that Drake kiting me at 70km is just terribad
10) The sheer lack of DPS inflicted on moving targets that are smaller than my bullets...
11) I have to mine ice just to go places with my ship... imagine a world where rifters had to mine ice to use gates... the riots would be legendary
12) The hull choices don't exactly facilitate my ambitions of throwing a hulking death machine into a pool of toddlers

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#531 - 2012-08-27 18:57:26 UTC
Usually takes way too much time to find a target
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#532 - 2012-08-27 21:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
One problem is the PVP corp vs. carebear corp divide. As a new player, you tend to end up in a carebear corp. They're the ones who will welcome you and ease you along as you learn the ropes. Then when you're ready to PVP, you and your 'bear corp mates don't have an experienced FC or PVP mentor. You have to try to learn everything from scratch. Reinvent the wheel basically, by trial and error. Against "specialists" from PVP corps who are more experienced, better organized, and likely better equipped. So you die a lot and you don't kill much. Some 'bears will stick with it and keep on learning by dying, but some will just stop thinking it's fun and will do something else.

So then you the fledgling PVPer are left with about three choices: a) Just do carebear stuff. b) Do solo/tiny gang roams and spend many hours looking for that rare killable target. c) Quit your corp (dump your friends) and join a PVP corp. With some creativity, I'm sure there are some other options that can be explored. I'm just talking general patterns here. Basically, the divide between carebears and PVPers is pretty significant, and it can be kind of tough to cross it.
Selinate
#533 - 2012-08-27 22:07:23 UTC
Well right now I don't have a very decent source of income, so I'd rather not start losing ships atm. Once I do, though, pew pew pew.

Also, the fact that solo PvP is... well... mostly non-existant....
Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#534 - 2012-08-28 14:06:26 UTC
What keep's me from PvP'ing?

You don't need to keep away from PvP. Let's define "not PvP" is when you shoot and kill someone who can't shoot or kill back.

The question should be: how do I get AROUND real PvP?

- with my cyno to bridge the gang in and let them do the dirty work
- with my Orca alt at a hi-sec gate where I can hide my t3 fast locking coward-ass (and jump the Orca into hi-sec)
- my Falcon alt where I can help people not locking my main
- my multi-uber-stabbed funky-agile cloaky faction smarties-BS with hi-grade Nomads to sb frigs, shuttles and pods in low-sec
- my multi-uber-stabbed funky-agile cloaky Proteus with officer sb's and why not: hi-grade Nomads
- my awesome station games in hi-sec against wt's with one booster and two logistics alts
- beeing in a hi-sec war corp
- suicide ganking haulers and defenceless victims in hi-sec for profit

Anyone has more ideas? :)
Jim Era
#535 - 2012-08-28 14:09:34 UTC
it burns

Wat™
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#536 - 2012-08-28 14:15:56 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
What keeps me from PVP'ing?

I suck at it and get killed a lot.

Getting killed a lot makes me look like an easy mark when people see me in the "victim" column of killboards all the time. This in turn provokes mockery and contempt in the PVP'er heart when people see me arrive in-system. Gankers, pirates, even (I suspect) NPC's: they laugh and point and lay their plans to destroy my humble little frigate. Not for ISK, but just to see my poor space-desiccated remains floating in the cold dark abyss, my pod having been reduced to the elements by a barrage of weapons fire.

My toon only wishes to delve into the mysteries of lowsec and null, to experience the wonder and mystery of uncharted space. He lives for the beyond, for the unknown, for the excitement of conquest and honorable combat. But his fate is sadly to be reduced to a frozen husk during every hostile encounter.

It's a sad tale, really.


What you need is a crew to hang with. I turned sucking at Eve into an art form until I put a crew together, suddenly....**** sucks less

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Down Link
Doomheim
#537 - 2012-08-28 14:20:10 UTC
ASB God Mod
Josefius
13th Tribe of Kobol Expeditionary
#538 - 2012-08-28 14:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Josefius
The "I'm scared." Is probably a big reason, people are afraid of losing their time and effort in ships. But once you get over that boundary, you will find it's fun and rewarding. In EVE your ships don't re-spawn like in other MMOs . The realistic risk vs reward is what keeps me going. Some players just want to make virtual money and enjoy their safety, and that's fine by me. It takes all types to make the EVE world go 'round.

You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something, sometime in your life.

-Winston Churchill
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#539 - 2012-08-28 16:57:01 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:


Then I found CVA, who does not (and never did) the various horribel demanding things so many complain about null sec.


Perhaps I've just been lucky but my experience thus far with null but it seems like this idea is either hopelessly outdated or mythological to begin with (I tend to side with the latter) . It seems to me at least that every alliance and corp I see is falling over themselves to say how not like that mythical null sec "CTA or GFTO" organization.


I wonder how many people hold back from going null sec just because of all that silliness. Because to be quite honest it's not all that hard to find a corporation that doesn't ask much more than "If there is corp/alliance/coalition OP and you can be on that OP then be on that OP".

My personal advice to those who want to PVP is make some isk, join RVB for a month or so and get lots of ships blown up. Then when you get bored of that go find a null sec corp that sounds appealing. Most of the time all you have to do is Pod jump down and buy ships off the local market as you need that way if it doesn't work out you can just say "see ya" and bail. If you find somewhere you like then you put down roots.

For all the talk about blobbing this and blobbing that, the only time you'll really see blob warfare is for strategic objectives, otherwise everyone prefers smaller roaming stuff (you know what we fill all that time between strat ops with). Find a good active alliance/corp that has a lot of stuff going on all the time and the only problem you'll run into is not having enough time to do everything you want.
Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#540 - 2012-08-28 20:03:16 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:
In my opinion, the biggest obstacle to PvP and new PvP Players is ignorance and a refusal to play socially in a social game.

Ignorance, i.e. a basic lack of knowledge of who, and what, is out there for a player to join and the myriad of options, from huge to small, hardcore to casual, that exist.

And the refusal or inabillity to engage is the social aspect fo this VERY social-based game.

Playing EVE as a single-player game is very hard/frustrating if youw ant to enjoy PvP. It's EVE on Hard Mode, no question.

But even a tiny effort at being social, exploring yoru options, can fix everything and put you in a palce where you'll still enjoy EVE years later.

Thast what happened to me. I found CVA.

Before CVA, I was bored, frustrated, and ready to quit.

Then I found CVA, who does not (and never did) the various horribel demanding things so many complain about null sec. No mandatory ops, not anti-casual rules, etc. Just basic "don't shoot non-reds" and "please try to fly the right fittings, see our website". Easy, basic, and led to tons of fun, and a lifetime of access to null-sec, fun, good people, and PvP.

Honestly, no matter what it is you want, it exists, and is out there in EVE for you, if you're willing to put in some effort (even casual effort) to go out and find it, and be a little social (just a little) when you do.

Not every Null-sec Alliance is Goons.



You left out flying all your crap to a station then having it locked up on you. Nothing says social like stealing all your crap wouldnt you agree. Oh and you are right not every null sec alliance is goons but they sure aspire to be goons imo.

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.