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EVE would get so many more subs IF...?

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Vince Arron
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-08-21 16:50:00 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Vince Arron wrote:
Anslo wrote:
No, I don't think I will. Anyone else want to offer a constructive idea?


Just....Just stop


If you don't like it, ignore me, block me, I honestly don't care. I want to see player opinions on this. If you don't have one, you don't have to stay. Goodbye.



Really....Stop
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#22 - 2012-08-21 16:52:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
You need to ask the question "does eve need a bunch of new players in the 1st place.

For me, the answer is NO. EVE needs to grow some sure, games either grow or die, it needs enough subscirbers to stay viable, but beyond that, screw it.

They should make you CFO of CCP. Cool

MinerBumping.com
Anslo
Scope Works
#23 - 2012-08-21 16:54:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
More people of YOUR type Anslo isn't goint to change anything, it's just going to make ships really really cheap because of all the mining lol.


You didn't get the part about me screwing around with PvE only did you? It's cool...

Jenn aSide wrote:
And you tend to act like the game isn't "diverse" enough. I've got 12 characters spread across New Eden and it's Wormhole space, seems plenty "diverse: to me.


.....Except that isn't diverse, that's just the same person with 12 different charachters. When I say diverse I mean, you know...new people? Not just WoW-tards/carebearapalooza, but just people, gamers, MMO people, ANYONE, PvPers, PvE'er, quite literally any kind of PERSON.

Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE's population is growing at a fast enough rate for me (if not for CCP), if anything I fear an influx of "new blood" will provide financial pressure for ccp to turn EVE more into an average mass appeal game , breaking away from being the EXCELLENT niche game it already is.


Wow is soooo main stream, I play Eve. You've probably never heard of it.
That's how hipster you sound there.

Jenn aSide wrote:
The truth is anslo, people like you advocate"change" simply for the sake of change, because you can't be happy with what you have or the current state of anything. CCP should resist change based on nothing.....


Did I ever say I want change and want it now? No, I'm asking people's opinion on what they think would get more people into the game, to give CCP more money, and to provide them capital to further bolster our game with more employees, more billable hours, etc. Your opinion was valid and fine up to the point that you started making assumptions about me.

I screwed around shiptoasting a bit to troll for the sake of trolling. If you couldn't see through that welp, you're problem. I'm not asking for Eve to turn into Carebear Online. I'm only asking about what people think could be added to Eve to get more people into it more often to give Eve the attention it deserves as a great MMO and, hopefully Soon (tm), the mose all encompassing, space simulator it set out to be.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#24 - 2012-08-21 16:55:37 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
You need to ask the question "does eve need a bunch of new players in the 1st place.

For me, the answer is NO. EVE needs to grow some sure, games either grow or die, it needs enough subscirbers to stay viable, but beyond that, screw it.

They should make you CFO of CCP. Cool



This is why I'm a PLAYER, not a dev lol.

Even so, every game maker can decide for themselves, do they want an average at best mass appeal game that fly's off the shelves? Or do that want an excellent niche subject matter game that grows slowly but has real staying power.

CCP seems to have chosen the latter (while still trying to scqueeze even more jiuce out of the niche, which is the right thing to do), and i hope they keep to that course, even against chorus of "change everything" coming from some people.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2012-08-21 16:57:22 UTC
Ignore the bears.
stoicfaux
#26 - 2012-08-21 17:00:37 UTC
What makes Eve subs sticky? The depth? The sense of ownership/accomplishment derived from building a corporation, industry, market, fleet of ships, etc.? The sandbox? The near OCD compulsion to keep your training queue active even if you aren't actively playing?


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tiger Would
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-08-21 17:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger Would
Anslo wrote:
So originally, I wanted to troll this post here, but then it actually got me thinking about real answers and opinions to this question.Shocked

In the spirit of CCP Soundwave's "Little Things" post and the precursor to it, Akita T's " The 1000 Papercuts Project," why not make a thread about how CCP could REALLY get more subscribers? Not just keep its current base happy, but attract new and fresh blood to diversify the game, even throw a wrench in the current power balance a bit.

Despite my previous trolling, buffing PvE and banning PvP isn't going to get more long run subscribers. But what will? We've seen that the tutorial that's "dumbing down Eve" has been getting a lot of praise from different threads, and that CCP is making a visible motion to reach out to potential subscribers to keep them from being too scared by the QQ cry moar aspects of Eve to show that it is indeed survivable and incredibly fun. I personally think more action like this, with some fixes to PvP (wardec overhaul, nul sec sov mechanic fixes, ship balancing, etc) could really keep people in house.

So with that said, what do you think CCP could do to get more long-term subscribers? Be as specific as possible!
Better Mission AI?
Moar pewpew focused ships?
An entire expansion dedicated to ship balancing?
Underlying mechanic overhauls?
Ambulation (inb4 flames)?
Low sec buffs?
Mother ******* Sleeper invasion?!

Post your opinions here!


If forums where split in 2 parts.
One part can not be accessed publicly.
The other part can be accessed by subscribers only.

The part that is public should have different rules.

Here only civil threads, telling about greatest video's, events and such should be placed.
But also ....the avatar above threads, given they are monitored closely so smack stays civil.

It would also contain posts like, i want your little things or people explaining to new members why they are of course welcome.

The non public forum should contain the politics and war effort smack talk.



In general, I think many posts are way out of order.
( And I am aswell sometimes, although meant in good fun, the border where something is smack or rude is hard to see sometimes......it is always in the eyes of the beholder)
I mean sure.....you playing this game and its a "harsh" environment but hear me out:

Have you ever played pool with a friend in a friendly competitive manner?
You may have made fun of each other. Now that is civil smack talk you would expect from 40 year olds (on average)

EvE having so many older players is actually something that attracts players.
I think many 70 ies and 80 ies born players, played there first games on commodores, fiddle around with amiga and spectrum and or DDS games.

I think many seen the gaming industry going downhill fast for a fast buck.
And than there was EvE.....I think, THE game that caters to this group of people in particular (ofc. not exclusively)

They played mission impossible on Com64, they played elite, they played red alert, duke nukem......space invaders.
That is EvE' s target IMO.

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-08-21 17:05:32 UTC
Anslo wrote:
[quote=Jenn aSide]

Did I ever say I want change and want it now? No, I'm asking people's opinion on what they think would get more people into the game, to give CCP more money, and to provide them capital to further bolster our game with more employees, more billable hours, etc. Your opinion was valid and fine up to the point that you started making assumptions about me.

I screwed around shiptoasting a bit to troll for the sake of trolling. If you couldn't see through that welp, you're problem. I'm not asking for Eve to turn into Carebear Online. I'm only asking about what people think could be added to Eve to get more people into it more often to give Eve the attention it deserves as a great MMO and, hopefully Soon (tm), the mose all encompassing, space simulator it set out to be.


As for your motivations, they are what they are, but they are misguided, and like all misguided opinons, only look to the advantages to be gain (ie "more moeny for ccp thus more support for eve ect ect) and not the potential negative consequences.

EVE is fine as it is, it has survived long when others have failed quickly, it is evolving even as we speak, and depsite some bumps in the road, CCP has been a good steward of the game they created (evidenced by the fact that it still exists and is still growing).

You also ignore history. In this case, the history of CCP. A big part of CCP's problem (that then spilled over into game scandals and such) was growing as a company faster than it should have. What worked great for a small single game developer SUCKED when ccp grew to it's peak size.

By now it should be understood, what was good for the game (gradual growth and continuing focus on maintaining the core concept of the "cold-harsh" game) is also good for the game company. Sure, they have a need and a requirement to grow, but it's better to do that smartly than to run down the "we need to get more subs NOw" road.
stoicfaux
#29 - 2012-08-21 17:12:33 UTC
Anslo wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Fleshed out PvE combined with safer-esque high-sec would definitely bring in the numbers. (i.e. full on Carebear.)

PvP would benefit if PvP losses were easier to replace. (i.e. "free" ships.)

However, both would "ruin" the game (i.e. annoy a lot of the core playerbase.) But if the dumbed down income versus the HTFU player income was large enough to overcome the risk in dumbing down the game, then it would happen. I imagine that even the UO school devs have their price.

So the real question is, how do you dumb down the game enough to make the business case to justify such an overhaul of the game? Or how do you dumb down the game with PvE without sacrificing PvP in order to have your cake and eat it too?

Easiest solution is to have customized shards per market, e.g. create a new PvE focused shard. Get rid of caps, supercaps, and sovereignty in order to rework them with a PvE focus later. Create ye olde wow style battleground instances with a minimal death penalty. Downside is that new shards would cost money and there's the risk that a lot of folks would flee Tranquility for the PvE shard.

Zero-sum games aren't for everyone.


....you're joking right?

I'm not. Eve is a niche game. Expanding the player base means appealing outside of the niche. Which will be seen as watering down (i.e. dumbing down) the game. Either you change the nature of Tranquility to appeal to a greater chunk of the bell curve, or you isolate the changes via a separate shard.

Of course the downside to a separate carebear PvE shard is that carebears experience less risk which means accomplishments are cheapened which reduces the game's sticky factor. So a PvE shard would need some kind of PvP-lite adversity to make the carebears bond together in order to get them to stay instead of jumping ship for the next new shiny game.

IMHO, I see high-sec as becoming more PvE friendly as CCP desperately racks their brains trying to hash out a system that encourages/guides carebears into the PvP side of Eve. How do you transition PvE carebears into PvP?


On a side note, I used to think that Planetside 2 would siphon away a large chunk of the carebear crowd from Eve, but then I realized that PS2 isn't about building one's own fiefdom. Focusing on personal ownership might be a way of making Eve subs sticky?


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Anslo
Scope Works
#30 - 2012-08-21 17:14:43 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

As for your motivations, they are what they are, but they are misguided, and like all misguided opinons, only look to the advantages to be gain (ie "more moeny for ccp thus more support for eve ect ect) and not the potential negative consequences.

EVE is fine as it is, it has survived long when others have failed quickly, it is evolving even as we speak, and depsite some bumps in the road, CCP has been a good steward of the game they created (evidenced by the fact that it still exists and is still growing).

You also ignore history. In this case, the history of CCP. A big part of CCP's problem (that then spilled over into game scandals and such) was growing as a company faster than it should have. What worked great for a small single game developer SUCKED when ccp grew to it's peak size.

By now it should be understood, what was good for the game (gradual growth and continuing focus on maintaining the core concept of the "cold-harsh" game) is also good for the game company. Sure, they have a need and a requirement to grow, but it's better to do that smartly than to run down the "we need to get more subs NOw" road.


Alright, I can respect that opinion. I disagree in a sense, but I respect it. I'm not of the mind of sudden, rampant, and violent expansion. Just a bit more nudge to their growth rate. I mean hell, these guys work 24 hour shifts on a game they love, but they may not be paid as much as they should. I'd LOVE to see these guys take home bigger checks for the crap they have to deal with.

I love my job and I love my pay (for someone out of college, it's damn good). Because of that, I perform better at work. While I'm not saying that's the case for everyone in any way, it could never hurt to love your job and get a bit of a bump in salary, right? A happy employee is a productive employee! Blink

As for gutting and changing Eve, no I don't think that's the case. But to me, with more employees and more capital, they could expand further on the "cold-harsh-why?-because****you" universe in ways that may not have been implemented for a while.

Again, I'd love for the cold harshness to pop up as a "gentle reminder" to say, Jita 4-4 traffic when Sleepers pop out of nowhere and proceed to cap the proverbial asses of various billion isk ships. Sure, Goons did it fine n well but hey, a big sleeper capital dropped by Devs as a story event would be laughable. Anyway, just my thoughts.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#31 - 2012-08-21 17:23:19 UTC
1. Tron clothes

2. More ships

3. Ban ISD

4. Minium 2 more races. You can cover both 1 and 2 here.

3 to 5 Troll/fanboys will disagree. F em! Most of us play for the spaceships. You can never have enough spaceships.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-08-21 17:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
... the new crimewatch changes got active, including the new sentry turret changes.

That would remove the idiots who call themselves gankers who can't really play anyway ...
... (hide in station, need orcas to kill things, never really interact with locals, etc etc) ...
... and make room for a real *outlaw profession* which can be advertised by CCP ...

... which would lead Crowd Control Productions to being able to have more flowcontrol about which side
of the security status people feel more attracted to.


Yes, i'm serious. Most people would have much less problems with gankers if these gankers weren't such cowardly idiots
hiding behind alts and unable to spell "you".

I'm basing this assumption on how the people of Hek react to me and all the donations i've got so far from people
i mostly don't even know, but who like me because i'm not such a worthless pile of crap like most people that have
a negative security status.

This doesn't include all you honourable lowsec pilots i have met ... and i'm sorry that i'm unable to find words that
seperate you from the worthless bacteria that sit on toilet seats, calling themselves gankers.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#33 - 2012-08-21 18:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
They need to keep up the work on the NPE, I understand it's getting to be quite useful, add indepth ingame video tuts (perhaps on the cq tv) that cover tanking, racial damage, racial weapons etc. Automatically opening the agent finder after each tutorial is finished.

Improved AI in lvl 4 & 5 missions would be a great addition to the game, sleeper level AI would make things a little less predictable, more types of incursion (different factions maybe).

More ships or iteration/balancing of ships/modules, I for one would love to see the drake get a rof buff at the expense of the kinetic bonus and or some tank. We have faction ammo, why not expand it to include sleeper ammo, dual damage missiles and laser crystals, seed via bpc drops or ammo drops and a reverse engineering type procedure.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-08-21 18:10:51 UTC
Short answer - nothing.

Long answer:

EVE has two mechanics that by definition prevent it from having a large, vibrant population. Those are non-consensual PvP and player looting. By themselves, these don't harm the game too much. WoW for example had non-consensual PvP, where you could be ganked in your capital city while browsing the auction house. Unlike carebear EVE where this can never happen when you are browsing the market in station. How's that for a troll? Huh? Huh? Not bad, eh? Lol

Seriously though, it's all quite simple. The moment you add these two elements, your game is doomed to be a niche game at best. Case in point: EVE, Mortal Online, Darkfall, UO, etc., etc. Some people here like to toot the horn that EVE is the second largest paid western MMO, but when WoW consistently had 20x+ higher population base for nearly 9 years and counting, it suddenly doesn't look that great. EVE is a niche, plain and simple. And out of 450k accounts it supposedly have, how many are PLEXed alt accounts? I would honestly be surprised if actual EVE population is larger than 200k unique individuals.

And this is not something that CCP can fix, even if they wanted to. At best they can avoid it when they make EVE II: The Search for More Money. This is just my opinion of course. But in 20+ years of gaming, I've yet to see this disproved by any game.

This is why I'm not going to suggest any fixes for low population. Because no matter what they do, population will not grow all that much. Which is also why I'm so dubious about Incarna. Avatars are nice, and they will attract some short-term players with eye candy (and boobs, if CCP is smart enough to realize that sex sells), but they will not fix the core issue with the game, which is FFA PvP + looting. This is really the long and short of it.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#35 - 2012-08-21 18:16:27 UTC
Vince Arron wrote:
EVE would get so many more subs if you didnt post anymore.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Jim Era
#36 - 2012-08-21 18:17:21 UTC
what is wrong with it being a niche game?
if it weren't...i know i wouldn't be here.
would you?

Wat™
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-08-21 18:20:51 UTC
eve is a game that will grow over time it has its on and off months but unlike most mmos, the people who leave will most likely come back maybe 6 months maybe 3 years from now and do it all over again.
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-08-21 18:26:41 UTC
I still like the idea of a starter system for each race that nobody can enter and noobies can't exit without clicking on some sort of confirm button that tells you once you leave you're out in the real world and can be killed by anybody. That exit confirmation should have some lengthy narratives for you that explain how high-sec, low-sec, null-sec and w-space work and what the engagement rules are. They should also explain that you are ALWAYS at risk of being attacked, even in high-sec. It seems like most new players that quit out of frustration quit because they get ganked and don't understand that losing a ship in this game shouldn't be the end of the world.

The starter system should have you: (1) do a bit of mining, (2) do a bit of industry, (3) do a bit of exploration, (4) do a bit of PvE combat, (5) learn how to use the market, (6) learn how to use the system map, (7) be familiarized with all the external resources available for this game, or at least the concept of external resources, (8) go through an introduction on corporations and what they do and how they can impact gameplay, (9) learn to use the overview, (10) learn to use d-scan, (11) be familiarized with wormholes. Also, it may be a fun idea to require you to go to a deadspace region in the system that is sort of a PVP arena and to engage another player or control a station. Then players will at least get a "taste" of PVP before they enter the real world and won't be quite so PVP-adverse. The problem is that you might not always have enough new characters to allow the PVP - perhaps it could just be a big ISK reward if you enter the PVP area and "control" a station by orbiting it within a certain distance for a few minutes or engage another player in the arena.

Nobody can enter the starter system. So the player can at least get their feet wet without worrying about some veteran can flipping them and we don't have to listen to people whine about not being able to can flip noobs in the current starter systems because EVE IS HARD.

You should have the option of leaving the starter system at any point.. if you're a vet, you're not going to want to go through all of this, obviously, unless the rewards for these noobie quests are large.
stoicfaux
#39 - 2012-08-21 18:32:07 UTC
The goal is to lure carebears into PvP via the "your first hit is free" marketing strategy.

Reverse Incursions Instanced transition from PvE to PvP.
CONCORD develops a device to generate a wormhole back to Sansha's staging areas. These devices open one temporary wormhole and are sold by CONCORD's LP store. A PvP fitted fleet can use these devices to jump into an instanced area to fight the Sansha with their Sleeper AI. There's a small chance that two player fleets can jump into the same Sansha staging area. The devices only work once, so only one fleet can jump in per wormhole.

The idea is that it introduces carebears to PvP fittings and basic PvP fighting in a controlled (comfortable) setting. There's still risk because they could encounter another player fleet.

The rewards wouldn't be that great to prevent farming by "pros". Again, it's just a means of building up confidence and/or community in carebears.


RvB Rewards
Join RvB and get a few awards for your first X PvP kills.


NPC PvP Missions
Instead of rampaging through a horde of NPCs after consulting eve-survival, these new missions feature one to several NPCs that require PvP fittings to defeat (i.e. buffer fit and bring a scram or the NPC will flee.) Sleeper AI, NPCs use popular player PvP ships and fittings.

Again, a "comfortable" introduction to PvP fittings and fighting styles. Not to imply that fighting NPCs will prepare you for actual human opponents or being hot dropped by carriers or being ECM'ed into impotence by a Falcon.


PvP Ready Characters Let's undercut character sales
For existing characters, you may create an alt on the account that starts with enough combat skills to run a combat fitted frigate (essential skills at 3?) Basically a pre-packaged combat alt. This alt cannot train skills, which lets you train up combat skills on your main while still PvPing. The advantages are that it lets industrial/market focused carebears get their feet wet in PvP ship combat quickly and with minimal investment. The goal is to make subs sticky for carebears bored with industry/mining/trade.


Go Here To Shoot People Shiny Here!
The galaxy map shows current combat hotspots in closer to real time than is currently done and with more obviousness. Think original Planetside with the flashing combat occuring here icons on the maps.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#40 - 2012-08-21 19:19:42 UTC
…it appealed even more to the niche and stopped worrying so much about the general public or, worse, tried to compete with the mainstream games for the mainstream audience using mainstream gameplay.